What is northern New Englands Hub?

[M. Brown]

lol. I'm not offended.

[Loughlin]

[KRC]

in order to be a suburb you have to have a city bigger than the suburb surrounding you, and suburbs are not typicly self sufficient, manchester is very seperate from Boston(just saying ).

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So is Worcester, but both Manchester and Worcester are considered to be part of the Boston Metropolitan area with Boston as the hub. In order to classify in that category (under the census rules mind you), it means that both Worcester's and Manchester's economies are dependent upon Boston to a larger degree than they are not. At one time Manchester used to be its own metropolitan area, but not any longer. Manchester is very much part of the Boston CMSA. I'm sure that loss of designation is only an economic picture, not cultural. Economies change dynamics all the time. While Manchester is considered a small sub-city of Boston, it's still it's own place. As M. Brown pointed out, Manchester is too "New Hampshirey" to be Boston. It's not like Boston in that aspect.

[Loughlin]

So is Worcester, but both Manchester and Worcester are considered to be part of the Boston Metropolitan area with Boston as the hub.  In order to classify in that category (under the census rules mind you), it means that both Worcester's and Manchester's economies are dependent upon Boston to a larger degree than they are not.  At one time Manchester used to be its own metropolitan area, but not any longer.  Manchester is very much part of the Boston CMSA.  I'm sure that loss of designation is only an economic picture, not cultural.  Economies change dynamics all the time.  While Manchester is considered a small sub-city of Boston, it's still it's own place.  As M. Brown pointed out, Manchester is too "New Hampshirey" to be Boston.  It's not like Boston in that aspect.

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There is obviously somthing very wrong with the fact That Manchester is considered part of metro Boston, and a metropolitan area is not always a suburb, if i remember correctly ST Paul is considered a suburb of Minneapolis, and you cant rightfuly call St Paul a suburb.

[KRC]

There is obviously somthing very wrong with the fact That Manchester is considered part of metro Boston, and a metropolitan area is not always a suburb, if i remember correctly ST Paul is considered a suburb of Minneapolis, and you cant rightfuly call St Paul a suburb.

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Why? If anything Manchester can feed off that and use it to promote itself. Not all of New England is Boston (though it's hard to tell Bostonians that ) so it may be a good thing for people outside of New England to see Manchester as a part of the Boston economic powerhouse picture and then show everyone the New Hampshire side once they are hooked.

[Loughlin]

i will try to settle some arguments-

manchester is clearly the economic hub of NNE

nashua is the gateway to NNE

portland is the "san francisco of NNE" (i.e. the cultural capitol)

that leaves burlington, which is ...

the crunchy,granola capitol?

gateway from Quebec?

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Cultural would be a draw between Portsmouth/Portland although Portland is bigger Port City (Portsmouth,Hampton,rye,new castle, and newington) have just as much if not more to do for fun and entertainment, Portsmouth also has more history,but it is some what of a yuppie city now .

[kurtosis]

Cultural would be a draw between Portsmouth/Portland although Portland is bigger Port City (Portsmouth,Hampton,rye,new castle, and newington) have just as much if not more to do for fun and entertainment, Portsmouth also has more history,but it is some what of a yuppie city now .

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Fair enough, but there is still one unanswered question - where does Burlington, Vt fit into all of this? It seems like we can have a discussion of the cities in the southern/NH-Maine region but the vermonsters are off in their own world. It's like they're the Connecticut of the North!

[KRC]

Fair enough, but  there is still one unanswered question - where does Burlington, Vt fit into all of this? It seems like we can have a discussion of the cities in the southern/NH-Maine region but the vermonsters are off in their own world. It's like they're the Connecticut of the North!

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I think Burlington would certainly give Portland a run for the title. Culturally speaking, I'd give Burlington the nod if it were added to the original list. I love that little city. It certainly still seems very New England to me. Sure it's got some New York influence, but they are New Englanders at heart. Besides, adjoining areas of Upstate New York are more like New England than New Jersey. Same is certainly true about Atlantic Canada and, despite the language difference, Quebec. New England and Southeast Canada are culturally similar. It's only the international boarder that separates us. Rhode Island is more like Price Edward Island than it is Delaware. That's what makes New England so different from the rest of the United States and sets us apart. The region is even ethsetically more like Southeast Canada than it is the Mid-Atlantic.

[scoopernicus]

Isn't there an expression in New Hampshire that goes something like this: How is (insert persons name here)? Reply: Either dead, or in Manchester.

I'm sorry if it sounds snarky, but I swear I read that somewere.

Not to compare one to the other, but I should also mention that Manchester, although a bigger city than Portland, has a smaller metropolitan area.

other than that, I have no opinion.

[Loughlin]

Manchester dosnt have a metro (its part of Bostons) but if it did it would be bigger than Portlands.

[CoreyPortlandME]

I'm not here to bicker, but I just felt like throwing in a stat I saw on the Portland city website that says Portland's metro is 230,000 (as of 2000 I assume). That gives you a sense of how big Manchester's metro population might be.

[scoopernicus]

US Census Statistics

Manchester is a bigger city than Portland, and has a bigger civic center, and a bigger, busier, more modern, (and much more affordable) airport, however, Portland ranked 91st in metropolitan area, Manchester ranked 119th.

[scoopernicus]

Now I'm just being a complete jerk, but according to Manchester's own website: Linked here, the metorpolitan population of Manchester is 203,590.

But, Manchester is still the bigger city, bigger civic center (hence better acts and such) bigger airport etc. etc.

But Portland has the coast.

[Loughlin]

Now I'm just being a complete jerk, but according to Manchester's own website: Linked here, the metorpolitan population of Manchester is 203,590.

[CoreyPortlandME]

Now now, nobody is pointing fingers. To be fair, scoop said that Manchester has the bigger population, bigger civic center, airport, etc. (I agree) The fact that Portland has the coast is just one of the differences between the two cities that is worth mentioning. I don't think there is anybody out there who loves one of these two cities and hates the other. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. It's like comparing Ferraris and Lamborghinis

[Loughlin]

US Census Statistics

Manchester ranked 119th.

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Does that stat include Nashua

[M. Brown]

Manchester is denser though. If fits 111k in 33 sqmiles where as Portland only has 66k in 50 sqmiles.

[Loughlin]

Manchester is denser though.  If fits 111k in 33 sqmiles where as Portland only has 66k in 50 sqmiles.

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Wow, Portland has that much land, thats 6 square miles more than Boston!

[kurtosis]

I gotta say, I find the ranking of the Portland metro pop. above Manch-Nashua extremely hard to believe. For starters manch and nashua are both larger than portland so there's a big gap right off the bat. the only possibility i see is that they define portland metro over a much larger land area (say all of southern maine) which is possible since there aren't really any other cities around. by contrast manch-nashua may be a pretty tigthly defined metro b/c you hit lowell once you take two steps south, concord to the north and seacoast to the east. i think all of those would be considered separate metros. so perhaps not the best comparison.

here's a question - i left NH after HS in 1993 and I never heard the term "Manch-Vegas" until long after i left. So I have no idea what it means or who started it. Does anybody have a good explanation? Does it have anything to do with gambling? or general sleaziness? (manch is probably the only vaguely "sleazy" city in northern NE) or did people just want a cool nickname?

[M. Brown]

^I honestly don't know. But isn't it Concord-Manchester-Nashua Metro

[scoopernicus]

First off my first post was probably too snarky. I'm sorry for that. It is a real quote I'd heard, and I was trying to be flip, but in retrospect, it just sounds mean-spirited.

However, when you start a 'my city is better than yours' argument, it can get personal. We can probably all agree that such comparisons are apples and oranges. I have my reasons for living were I do, and for loving it, but they are my reasons and my reasons alone. I don't expect everyone to share my reasons.

and I think, by the chart I linked to, Nashua had it's own metropolitan area.

[Loughlin]

I like both Manchester and Portland.

[scoopernicus]

I like both Manchester and Portland.

There's much to love about both.

[M. Brown]

I don't think 'Northern New England' as a whole can be said to have a hub.  It's too difficult to travel east-west through the region, because of topography and how the road network is laid out.

Manchester is only barely in 'Northern New England' anyway, given that it's 25 miles from the Mass. line but hundreds of miles from the Canadian border.

On purely geographical terms you could make a case for Hanover-Lebanon-White River Junction, since it's where I-89 and I-91 cross.  But it's not much of a population center, and you can't get there easily from Maine.

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True. Never thought about that.

[pvenne]

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