What is northern New Englands Hub?

[Loughlin]

Phish and easy e were obviously jokes .

[Cotuit]

Boston is New England's first city, split the region in half, north and south, then each half can get a second city (arguably, Manchester and Providence). It doesn't make mathmatical sense to have two second cities, but then again we're talking geography, not math.

[M. Brown]

^I've always thought of that. It seems Manchester and Providence are equal in distance from Boston. Worcster too. Worcster to the west, Manchester to the north and Providence to the south.

[pvenne]

Boston is New England's first city, split the region in half, north and south, then each half can get a second city (arguably, Manchester and Providence). It doesn't make mathmatical sense to have two second cities, but then again we're talking geography, not math.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

okay, i get it...finally someone has explained it to me in terms that are understandable. thank you.

[uconn99]

Never have been to Portland but hear good things. Manchester to me looks like more of a city, just because of its downtown. Without ever going to Portland it is really hard for me to compare them.

I don't want to start wars here, but in terms of New England's "second city" if there ever was one, it would be Hartford. Hartford has the downtown, the economy, and the airport to make a valid point for this. In terms of corporate america, the Hartford area is second to only Boston in New England, second biggest convention center, and like mentioned earlier second biggest airport.

[pvenne]

Never have been to Portland but hear good things. Manchester to me looks like more of a city, just because of its downtown. Without ever going to Portland it is really hard for me to compare them.

I don't want to start wars here, but in terms of New England's "second city" if there ever was one, it would be Hartford. Hartford has the downtown, the economy, and the airport to make a valid point for this. In terms of corporate america, the Hartford area is second to only Boston in New England, second biggest convention center, and like mentioned earlier second biggest airport.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ive gotta say that i must revise my opinion. after reading the sunday telegram in portland this past sunday, i learned many things i never knew about manchester. clearly, if NNE has a hub, it is manchester, though from what i hear it has always been portland until recently. the new development-minded politicians that have run the city since the early 1990s have shown us what can happen in only a few short years. i never knew this, but manchester handles 4-times as many passengers a year as the portland jet port (when in the late 1980s it only made about three flights a day on average). it has taken the necessary steps to build its new arena (which is grander than even the arena that was planned for portland [that was a failure any way]) and it has the population to grow on (especially in the metro area between itself and boston. though i stand by my opinion that the manchester i have always though of as a mill town is not NNE's hub, this is clearly not the case today. manchester is no longer a mill town but a city on the rise, in many, many respects. i hope portland takes a lesson from manch sometime soon, it would certainly help us grow. if anythin, i am not disappointed that manchester is thought of as having a brighter future than portland...this will probably just gear up portlanders for some competition and hopefully the results will be satisfactory to all. if manch has an arena that is stealing our customers, or an jetport that is stealing our passengers (as the article i skimmed suggested) then that leaves us only one choice: development, regardless of what these country-minded mainers have to say about it. at this point, it seems that the choice is develop or become a dying city. i hope we make the right decisions. p.s. good for manchester, what an accomplishment.

[M. Brown]

This still doesnt make Portland a bad city. For its area it does well. But I can do a lot more. Like I said before Portland has the perfect location and it can be more of a powerhouse for its area than Manchester because of its distance from Boston.

[AmericanUrbanDesigner]

I think of Manchester as a suburb of Massachusetts, so, my vote is for Portland.

[M. Brown]

I think of Manchester as a suburb of Massachusetts, so, my vote is for Portland.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've never heard of a place being a suburb of a state before Manchester is 50 miles out and is very different from Boston. Infact people try to separate themselves from Boston around here expect for the sports teams. Manchester is too New Hampshirey if you will. If you havent been to Manchester then you can say that it a suburb. Its a city by all means and a city that is the fastest growing population wise(most likely) and economically in all of New England. You can't hide the facts. Look at the airport for instance. Look at downtown. Look at the new sports teams. I don't think a suburb can do all that at once. Manchester is atracting huge numbers of ppl from Mass, Maine, Vermont and Boston. Take a look at some of the Articles from the Portland Newspaper envying Manchesters success(not trying to be offensive). I can go on and on but I dont feel like it.

Sorry for my rant I kinda just get tired of people calling Manchester a suburb of Massach... I mean Boston. I'm not to dog Portland I'm just stating to obvious situation here right now. Sorry if you Portlanders were offended. Like I say always you guys have an awesome setting. That alone can beat Manchester...but not as a hub though. I'm done.

[pvenne]

I've never heard of a place being a suburb of a state before   Manchester is 50 miles out and is very different from Boston.  Infact people try to separate themselves from Boston around here expect for the sports teams.  Manchester is too New Hampshirey if you will.  If you havent been to Manchester then you can say that it a suburb.  Its a city by all means and a city that is the fastest growing population wise(most likely) and economically in all of New England.  You can't hide the facts.  Look at the airport for instance.  Look at downtown.  Look at the new sports teams.  I don't think a suburb can do all that at once.  Manchester is atracting huge numbers of ppl from Mass, Maine, Vermont and Boston.  Take a look at some of the Articles from the Portland Newspaper envying Manchesters success(not trying to be offensive).  I can go on and on but I dont feel like it. 

Sorry for my rant I kinda just get tired of people calling Manchester a suburb of Massach... I mean Boston.  I'm not to dog Portland I'm just stating to obvious situation here right now.  Sorry if you Portlanders were offended.  Like I say always you guys have an  awesome setting.  That alone can beat Manchester...but not as a hub though.  I'm done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well i think peopple that arent from manchester see it as heavily influenced by the greater boston area, and therefore dont really see it as being part of NNE (even though it is). it is definately the fastest growing city in NNE (maybe all NE) and it has a very bright and forward looking future. i have been there twice and both times i really enjoyed my visit.

but in terms of being a "suburb", isnt it? at least in terms of the people who live in that area but commute to boston...in the same sort of way that people around portsmouth and even kittery maine do? am i wrong? i know more people stay in manch than leave for boston every day, probably a whole lot more, but i cant help but think more than just a few must find it convenient to live in the great city of manchester with all the things boston has on a smaller scale but work in the higher paying boston region. would you agree or disagree that this is the case? if you disagree, then howabout nashua, i hear that nashua is a big commuter town for the boston area. but then again, i am not a new hampshire resident so i am going on what i hear through various pipelines. manch is certainly not a suburb of boston in the true sense of the word suburb...it is clearly urbanized itself and i imagine it must draw plenty of people from places like goffstown every day for work. but it does have that nice advantage of letting people choose to work in boston if they wish...but these days i wouldnt be surprised if people in the boston area found it more convenient to work and commute to manch every day...ah i am going on and on so i too am done now. manch is a great place.

[billpa]

Just a couple of thoughts from a native Mainer:

1. I don't think any city in NNE is big enough to be a hub for the rest of the region.

2. I don't know anyone in Maine who would ever say "I can't do such-and-such here, I'll have to go to Manchester for that" ( I realize some are now going to Manchester for cheap flights)

3. I've never heard anyone say "Yeah, I'm having a good time here in the Old Port, but Manchester's buildings a few floors taller...let's go party over there!

[P-Land]

I wish Manchester and Portland were closer to oneanother. It would make it easier to visit each and they could feed off of oneanother. Just imagine if Nashua were Portland or if Gorham was Manchester.

[M. Brown]

Well you havent been here lately . Just recently a band(I believe it was Motly Crew I', prolly wrong but it was a famous band)was going to do a show in Portland but didnt want to cuz the arena was too small so they decided to do it in Manchester. A lot of other things that would have been happening in Portland are now happening in Manchester instead as far as events like that are concerned.

[P-Land]

Good point. but the way I see it, Portland had an arena for thirty years before Manchester's opened. Now it is just a question of when our next one will come and if it will be smaller, the same, or larger than the Verizon. if it is larger, things will return to normal. If it is the same, good. Competition is always good for prices and such. If it is smaller then Portland will have passed up a great opportunity for improvement and will suffer the costs (financially for the civic center and in terms of growth opportunity for the city). I wish Portland built that new arena last year. What a spectacular sight that would have been to add in the downtown area.

- But -

Some shows that have played in portland since Manchester opened:

50 CENT

Cher

Ja Rule

Joe Budden

Fat Joe

RZA

Nelly

3 Doors Down

American Idols Tour

Jimmy Eat World

So it still holds some significance. I think the reason is that manchester and Portland are far enough away that it wouldn't be worth the drive to see a show in Manchester (which is just as far away as Boston is). People in Portland could just catch a Boston show, as they have been doing all along, if they wanted something really big.

Anyway, what is the verizon like inside, have you been?

[M. Brown]

Anyway, what is the verizon like inside, have you been?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Many times. I graduated in it. There is not a bad seat anywhere and its very modern.

[P-Land]

Many times.  I graduated in it.  There is not a bad seat anywhere and its very modern.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow. I graduated from my city hall; pretty lame. My sister, however, graduated from the cumb. count. civic ctr. which wasn't too too bad. Maine hosts its high school basket ball state championships at the civic center, does Manchester do the same/

[M. Brown]

I dont think so. They are held at UNH. But the Boston Celtics have thier exhibition games at the Verizon.

[CoreyPortlandME]

<--Graduated at the Civic Center in Porland B)

[evan d]

hahahaha u guys think nething can beat manch in this battle. WOW. look at the numbers folks and plus we have a sweet air port

[Mike D]

I've never heard of a place being a suburb of a state before Manchester is 50 miles out and is very different from Boston. Infact people try to separate themselves from Boston around here expect for the sports teams. Manchester is too New Hampshirey if you will. If you havent been to Manchester then you can say that it a suburb. Its a city by all means and a city that is the fastest growing population wise(most likely) and economically in all of New England. You can't hide the facts. Look at the airport for instance. Look at downtown. Look at the new sports teams. I don't think a suburb can do all that at once. Manchester is atracting huge numbers of ppl from Mass, Maine, Vermont and Boston. Take a look at some of the Articles from the Portland Newspaper envying Manchesters success(not trying to be offensive). I can go on and on but I dont feel like it.

Sorry for my rant I kinda just get tired of people calling Manchester a suburb of Massach... I mean Boston. I'm not to dog Portland I'm just stating to obvious situation here right now. Sorry if you Portlanders were offended. Like I say always you guys have an awesome setting. That alone can beat Manchester...but not as a hub though. I'm done.

There should be more TV network affiliates in Manchester and NH, then. If Manchester is that much different from Boston (and I agree that it is), and if it's growing so much, then why must residents of the city and much of the state rely on Boston for local news and network TV? NH should have its own network affiliates other than ABC. Manchester pretty much only has the Union-Leader and WMUR/ABC-9 for local news. I'm surprised there isn't more than that, especially given how much Manchester and NH have grown since the 50s when TV news was in its infancy (and when it might have made sense for a largely undeveloped southern NH to get its news from Boston). If it's so distinctive, it should have more of its own news outlets. I mean, Providence is closer to Boston than Manchester is and they don't rely on Boston for local news. Even Portland has its own TV network affiliates.

I agree that Manchester is not a suburb of Boston. That's why it should have more stations that focus on news that matters to Manchester and its surrounding NH communities - not Boston and its surrounding MA communities. They need more than just Channel 9 (I'm not saying that Channel 9 and ABC are bad, just that a bit more competition would be good for the area). Given that Manchester and NH are growing, the area can support more news media outlets than it currently has.

[Mike D]

Well you havent been here lately . Just recently a band(I believe it was Motly Crew I', prolly wrong but it was a famous band)was going to do a show in Portland but didnt want to cuz the arena was too small so they decided to do it in Manchester. A lot of other things that would have been happening in Portland are now happening in Manchester instead as far as events like that are concerned.

I've seen pictures of the Verizon Arena. Very impressive. I've been reading that it's getting a lot of events. That's good news.

[M. Brown]

There should be more TV network affiliates in Manchester and NH, then. If Manchester is that much different from Boston (and I agree that it is), and if it's growing so much, then why must residents of the city and much of the state rely on Boston for local news and network TV? NH should have its own network affiliates other than ABC. Manchester pretty much only has the Union-Leader and WMUR/ABC-9 for local news. I'm surprised there isn't more than that, especially given how much Manchester and NH have grown since the 50s when TV news was in its infancy (and when it might have made sense for a largely undeveloped southern NH to get its news from Boston). If it's so distinctive, it should have more of its own news outlets. I mean, Providence is closer to Boston than Manchester is and they don't rely on Boston for local news. Even Portland has its own TV network affiliates.

I agree that Manchester is not a suburb of Boston. That's why it should have more stations that focus on news that matters to Manchester and its surrounding NH communities - not Boston and its surrounding MA communities. They need more than just Channel 9 (I'm not saying that Channel 9 and ABC are bad, just that a bit more competition would be good for the area). Given that Manchester and NH are growing, the area can support more news media outlets than it currently has.

Actually I think manchester is closer. But because we are so close is why we dont have any more new stations. We dont need them. I'd like them though. Portland is 2 hours away from Boston so I can see why they have their own. It would be too much for the Boston stations to cover. As far as weather is concerned, the Boston stations do quite fine for NH. But I don't think new stations determine the city's economic importance though.

[M. Brown]

I've seen pictures of the Verizon Arena. Very impressive. I've been reading that it's getting a lot of events. That's good news.

In 2003 I believe it was the 17th busiest arena in the world.

[Mike D]

Actually I think manchester is closer. But because we are so close is why we dont have any more new stations. We dont need them. I'd like them though. Portland is 2 hours away from Boston so I can see why they have their own. It would be too much for the Boston stations to cover. As far as weather is concerned, the Boston stations do quite fine for NH. But I don't think new stations determine the city's economic importance though.

Yes, probably if Providence was as undeveloped as southern NH was in the 50's, RI also would be relying on Boston for news - in fact Boston's stations go down to RI to do news stories a lot.

NH defintely doesn't need every network to have a station based there - the area just may not have enough of a population to suppoort them all. But Manchester and southern NH have a lot more people living there now than they did in the 50's when the networks first expanded all over the US. If they got just one more major network affiliate (maybe FOX, so their news wouldn't have to compete directly with WMUR), that would give the growing Manchester area yet another news outlet (I believe the FCC would consider southern NH to be separate if it has at least two stations affiliated with major TV networks). But it is up to the networks if they want a station in NH or not. And you're right - one or two more network affiliates certainly are not going to have any effect how much the Manchester area continues to grow.

[runawayjim]

Actually I think manchester is closer. But because we are so close is why we dont have any more new stations. We dont need them. I'd like them though. Portland is 2 hours away from Boston so I can see why they have their own. It would be too much for the Boston stations to cover. As far as weather is concerned, the Boston stations do quite fine for NH. But I don't think new stations determine the city's economic importance though.

according to google maps, manchester is about 54 miles from boston and providence is about 50 miles. so they're ultimately the same distance from boston.

driving the everett or 293 or whatever it is along the river through manchester is the worst curvy highway i've been on (i thought worcester and the pawtucket S curves were bad...). that's really narrow there.

i don't understand why manchester doesn't have their own network affiliates. you might argue that they don't need it, but the boston stations won't give you good local news. we have our own for all the networks down here and while they cover all of RI and most of SE MA, they're based in providence. they get the local news, as well as the big news from boston. i'd rather hear that than a lot of news from boston that just doesn't matter to people living 50 miles away. concord is even farther from boston... what do they care what's going on in boston? while you might not think it's necessary, it also brings new jobs into the area, along with providing a nice service...

as far as the hub goes... i haven't spent much time in either portland or manchester, but i'd say it's a toss up given that portland is a major port city (the most major for northern new england?). but the question is really not a good one because vermont is left out of the equation beacuse the cities there are more western so theyr'e cut off from everything else and the cities in maine and NH are all so far south that the rest of the state obviously doesn't have anything going for it other than touristy stuff (which i have to say manchester lacks, aside from sports). i was in downtown manchester for the first time this past week. it wasn't anything great to look at and i'm not sure i'd want to be walking around there alone for any length of time... and what i've seen outside that main strip on elm st wasn't anything spectacular to look at... reminded me of worcester in that sense.