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My question would be..."where are these buyers?"... There are two partially finished condos downtown and at least a dozen other projects that have been canceled. They can't sell what has been built, rents are dropping, and there seems to be no end in sight. I can't imaging that anyone would want to purchase a $400K condo in the Vue for the sole purpose of coming to downtown Charlotte on the weekends. If they can't sell ocean front condos at this price, I simply can't imagine there would be better demand for this sort of thing in CLT.

You may not be able to imagine it, but it is a fact. In our building at 230 S. Tryon there are at least a dozen such units for folks that live elsewhere but have an in-town place including one of the large penthouses. A couple former Panther players that have been traded have kept their units as a place to stay when in town, an owner of hosiery mills in the foothills has a weekend place, I could go on but the fact is there has been a demand for this. Whether there are new buyers for such properties I have no idea, but the concept isn't anything unfathomable. The Observer even did an article last year about a couple who live just outside Greensboro that have a place at 5th & Poplar as their weekend home.

Rents have dropped, by the way, for apartments and noted in the same article that reported on it this is at least partially due to many homes and condos being put out for rent - many tenants would prefer live in a non-apartment quality place. Rents have generally risen for homes and condos across the city but dropped for apartments.

I don't know of two 'half built' condo towers (if you are counting 210 Trade only the foundation was laid) and both weren't/aren't finsishd for reasons other than a lack of buyers as both were virtually sold out when the developers and financing issues caused them to stop. For some reason these facts keep getting buried, but buyers were there to buy and wanted to buy (regardless of whether one feels it was a smart purchase from an outside viewpoint). The projects that have been cancelled certainly should have been given the financial upheaval, economic crisis, and other factors that have slammed all types of housing all over Charlotte and all over the country -- but for some reason condos in uptown Charlotte are deemed more worthy of critism than anything else. At least real sales data and pricing don't show this free-for-all fall that is always brought up. Will it happen? Maybe, who knows, but as always we'll have to wait and see since so far it hasn't (with of course the exception of the aforementioned projects that have been cancelled just like the myriad of subdivisions all over the region for single family homes).

I only know two buyers at The Vue, one plans to live there, the other lives half the time in Miami and will use her unit when done the other time. Regardless of personal opinions, The Vue is going up, lots of people like it, many ARE buying into it, and the skyline is changing.

Edited by Charlotte_native
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I had a conversation just a few weeks ago where I learned that that specific banner cost somewhere around $30k.

And on another note, how many more decades do we think the “VUE Now Leasing” sign will remain on the south facing side at the top?  They’ve really gotten their money’s worth out of those banners. 

See and I'm thinking "well, the kerning between the V and A is terrible, and the secondary/primary hierarchy is reversed"

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This so much reminds me of my dad when I was young. A big motor home would go by on the road and he would say " I wouldn't have one of those things, where do you park it, what about gas, they cost a fortune.." and he would actually get mad talking about it.

You would not believe all the condo projects proposed for Charlotte that are not even known of but someone is itching to build and someone will buy. And since that discussion thirty years ago many folks got rich building motor homes.

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I don't know of two 'half built' condo towers (if you are counting 210 Trade only the foundation was laid) and both weren't/aren't finsishd for reasons other than a lack of buyers as both were virtually sold out when the developers and financing issues caused them to stop.

I'm not criticizing you, as I agree with your point, but I feel I should point out that TTT was partially built. 2 stories/shells sit on top of the office portion of the complex. I figured I'd say that before somebody used it to criticize your points.

And I agree, these complexes weren't built due to reasons outside of the condo market. The money ran out on the Park and TTT fell victim of a lawsuit/stubborn companies. Could have all the contracts been closed in this market now? Of course not, but that's not to say that people aren't still buying condos. For one, my friend and I are looking at a 2br unit up in The Avenue and also considering several other locations in uptown. If anything, this economy is driving the prices of these units to fit under my budget more and more every month, if not every week. I feel like the price per square foot on the units in The Vue are a little more than I'd be willing to pay, but that's me. That and the fact that I need to move in by July also doesn't help The Vue's case.

Edited by aussie luke
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This so much reminds me of my dad when I was young. A big motor home would go by on the road and he would say " I wouldn't have one of those things, where do you park it, what about gas, they cost a fortune.." and he would actually get mad talking about it.

You would not believe all the condo projects proposed for Charlotte that are not even known of but someone is itching to build and someone will buy. And since that discussion thirty years ago many folks got rich building motor homes.

Not sure of your point. The motor home companies are in a bad way just as the speculative condo market as we have seen in Charlotte. For example Monaco Coach filed for bankruptcy last month and had resorted to mass layoffs that has destroyed the Northern Indiana economy. There are a lot of people losing a lot of money on these things these days. Go to Myrtle Beach and you will literally find acres of them parked where people are trying to get rid of them.

If you posted that as an analogy, it was a pretty good one. This market in Charlotte has one thing going for it right now. The federal government is pumping hundreds of billions of dollars into BofA and Wells Fargo. If it wasn't for that, downtown would look like a ghost town right now. This should be a warning that if you haven't gotten out yet, there is still time and don't jump in unless you are willing to absorb more loses.

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What's funny is after I posted I realized that I wouldn't have one those motor homes either. I guess my point is there are those out there wanting this product no matter how little sense it makes to someone else, and there is someone out there trying to figure out how to build it. I agree on the logic that this market for condos should not be there, but certain professions are stating otherwise.

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Not sure of your point. The motor home companies are in a bad way just as the speculative condo market as we have seen in Charlotte. For example Monaco Coach filed for bankruptcy last month and had resorted to mass layoffs that has destroyed the Northern Indiana economy. There are a lot of people losing a lot of money on these things these days. Go to Myrtle Beach and you will literally find acres of them parked where people are trying to get rid of them.

If you posted that as an analogy, it was a pretty good one. This market in Charlotte has one thing going for it right now. The federal government is pumping hundreds of billions of dollars into BofA and Wells Fargo. If it wasn't for that, downtown would look like a ghost town right now. This should be a warning that if you haven't gotten out yet, there is still time and don't jump in unless you are willing to absorb more loses.

I'm really failing to see your point here. Are you generally bashing all forms of luxury (meaning something inessential but conducive to pleasure and comfort)? Yes, of course these kinds of items, whether it be expensive condos, motor homes, jewelry, etc... are all struggling to sell right now. People have more limited access to money now, and these items sell more poorly because of it. The point is that the demand is there when people have access to the money, whether you agree with the necessity, the convenience, or the importance of owning such items is irrelevant.

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I'm really failing to see your point here. Are you generally bashing all forms of luxury ....

Exactly what have I "bashed"? If you want to point out anything that I said that is incorrect (including my thoughts on the economy) then please do so. If it is your opinion that I am wrong then I can accept that even including the absence of any logical explainations on why you might feel that way. However without that, just because it might be something you don't want to hear doesn't mean it is wrong or that I am attempting to bash anything. (Note, I didn't bring up the point of th luxury motor homes. One wonders why you didn't question the party who did bring it into this topic. )

I have not once said that people who still have lots money still won't go and buy luxury. This isn't a market that is built on that assumption unless it is your definition that condos in Charlotte represent luxury purchases for luxury buyers. If so then I would contend there isn't enough of them to support the market. If not then I would contend there isn't a market here for the middle class buyer. Its your choice either way.

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Exactly what have I "bashed"? If you want to point out anything that I said that is incorrect (including my thoughts on the economy) then please do so. If it is your opinion that I am wrong then I can accept that even including the absence of any logical explainations on why you might feel that way. However without that, just because it might be something you don't want to hear doesn't mean it is wrong or that I am attempting to bash anything. (Note, I didn't bring up the point of th luxury motor homes. One wonders why you didn't question the party who did bring it into this topic. )

I have not once said that people who still have lots money still won't go and buy luxury. This isn't a market that is built on that assumption unless it is your definition that condos in Charlotte represent luxury purchases for luxury buyers. If so then I would contend there isn't enough of them to support the market. If not then I would contend there isn't a market here for the middle class buyer. Its your choice either way.

Last reply since I didn't mean to start an argument, or waste space. In response to your last paragraph, there is a market Uptown for the middle class buyer, which Charlotte Native continually tries to present to you (in numbers), but you continue to ignore. We're talking about the Vue here which markets itself as a luxury building for luxury buyers. You have continually mentioned that this building makes no sense for a number of reasons, and contend that there aren't enough luxury buyers for the building without presenting any actual numbers. The building is 50-60% sold as far as most of us know, and is still over a year from completion. Even if sales are currently stagnant, it's likely more indicative of a national slump in real estate than specific merits or shortfalls of this building.

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One thing I've begun to notice on this tower is that it is noticeably darker a shade of blue than in the renderings. I was hoping for something similar to the Avenue's color, but appears to be closer to the color of the glass on IJL. I'm still glad it doesn't mirror the colors of BoA or DEC as it will stand out on its own the same as they will. But I was hoping for something brighter I guess.

EDIT: on second thought, it may just be the shadows the balconies are casting that makes the glass appear darker than it is.

Edited by aussie luke
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What is IJL ?

The building is 201 N. Tryon, the building Zink and Capital grill are housed in. It was Interstate Johnson Lane Tower until 2002ish aka IJL. The glass is going to be a little different from Avenue, to me 201 N. Tryon is quite dark, in no way blue like the vue. Look at some of the ground level pictures.

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One thing I've begun to notice on this tower is that it is noticeably darker a shade of blue than in the renderings. I was hoping for something similar to the Avenue's color, but appears to be closer to the color of the glass on IJL. I'm still glad it doesn't mirror the colors of BoA or DEC as it will stand out on its own the same as they will. But I was hoping for something brighter I guess.

EDIT: on second thought, it may just be the shadows the balconies are casting that makes the glass appear darker than it is.

I've noticed from Avenue that the glass in the Vue tower does not have the same reflective (privacy) quality as Avenue or Trademark. On a sunny day, you can see right through it, unlike Ave and TM. I'm sure it will be pretty transparent at night too.

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I've noticed from Avenue that the glass in the Vue tower does not have the same reflective (privacy) quality as Avenue or Trademark. On a sunny day, you can see right through it, unlike Ave and TM. I'm sure it will be pretty transparent at night too.

Talking about seeing through the windows - I walked by today and it looks like there is furniture in lowest SE corner unit. I think it is one of the larger ones with the private garage. Maybe a model?

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I think they are fluffing up for the Urban Living Showcase event this Friday and Saturday, they are one of the buildings on tour.

Details are eithere on www.findyourcenter.com or charlottecentercity.org I believe.

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I think they are fluffing up for the Urban Living Showcase event this Friday and Saturday, they are one of the buildings on tour.

Details are eithere on www.findyourcenter.com or charlottecentercity.org I believe.

I've been told the actual building isn't on the tour, it would be too dangerous to take people in there at this point - The sales center is participating in the tour and will be one of the stops for people to visit and get an idea of the developments uptown.

Also the unit is only going to be decorated for a very short time and will not be open to the public.

I'm hoping we can look forward to some great new pictures in the near future.

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I was in the "model" unit today. It was spectacular!!!! I have been in Avenue and Trademark. It was pretty clear to me why this building will be more expensive per square foot. WOW! Not only are the appliances top notch, but the finishes are very well done. The concrete is finished--way more than just painted. Carpet, flooring, marble moldings---all very nice looking and installed well. The view is nice, but this was only the 4th floor. The unit was furnished with transitional type, pretty classic furniture and it seemed perfect for the space. I was concerned that everything would need to be ultra modern. The unit we saw had a private large 2 car garage. A neat feature in a high rise condo. Once the economy is less of a question mark and the sales staff can show these off to the public I suspect they will sell very quickly. I can't wait to see the huge amenities deck with the tennis court and pool. they will have a virtual tour of this pretty soon on their web site I guess.

Nice Job VUE (no I am not employed or paid by the development company, but I will buy a unit)

I've been told the actual building isn't on the tour, it would be too dangerous to take people in there at this point - The sales center is participating in the tour and will be one of the stops for people to visit and get an idea of the developments uptown.

Also the unit is only going to be decorated for a very short time and will not be open to the public.

I'm hoping we can look forward to some great new pictures in the near future.

Edited by jms54
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I ate at Press last night and sat where you could see the Vue from the seat. I was amazed how tall this thing looks just from sitting there. And they still have another 12 or so stories to go. Wish I had a camera handy b/c it was an impressive "view" :thumbsup:

Edited by dbull75
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