Providence Sports

[Vallon]

The ancient municipal borders in New England are funny but are part of who we are. Look at London with the City of Westminster. I think we should view these things as part of the organic fabric that comprises our cities. It sets us apart from the unwashed masses of auto-centric grid cities. The only downside is we have to listen to people from Houston claim to be the 4th largest city in the US. If Providence was physically 10 times its current size, like Houston it would have 750,000 people(?). Boston would be almost 3 million.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know if I feel you on this Scott. I think that those old boundaries were extremely flexible back in the day. At one time Rhode Island WAS Newport and Providence. Everything else was raw, natural land...waiting to be developed. Most of what is now "Providence County" was "Smithfield", 150 years ago. That got cut up into Smithfield, North Smithfield, Lincoln, and parts of Woonsocket in 1871. Then you had Central Falls breaking off of Lincoln to be incorporated as a city in 1895. Fall River used to be part of Rhode Island. Cumberland used to be "Attleboro Gore" and everything east of the Blackstone/Seekonk/Providence River was Massachusetts. So things change over time depending on the need of the people. We change the landscape of our cities, we change buildings, and roads... so why doesn't it make sense to rezone areas and redefine communities? Villages grow into Boroughs... which grow into Towns... which grow into Cities. Lincoln has 6 different villages with their own identity... yet they're grouped together to comprise "Lincoln". Because of Boundaries you have some villages that are actually in 2 different towns. Lonsdale is shared by Cumberland and Lincoln... Fairlawn and Woodlawn are shared by Lincoln and Pawtucket. So the point that i'm trying to make here is that communities don't always grow within their boundaries. Boundaries are just rough ideas that people come up with to define things. Over time as things change it's worth reaccessing how things work.

If annexing parts of Pawtucket or North Providence help Providence to grow and the people that live there benefit from it - then how is it a bad thing? Someone... I think it was either Cotuit or Garris said in another post that Providence is often referred to as "the city-state". If it weren't for Providence... Rhode Island wouldn't exist... and when you really think about it... Rhode Island only refers to that island out in Narragansett Bay that Newport sits on. Everything else is "Providence Plantations" - people tend to forget that. So redrawing boundaries and annexing parts of other towns is part of every communities growth over time. It's necessary... and vital for the growth of a city. Pawtucket's history will not be lost anymore than the industrial history of other parts of Providence...and the entire state.

Nobody is talking about turning Providence into Houston. But growth and organization of a city makes sense. If we can move concrete boundaries that cut off sectors of our cities... then why can't we cut through invisible ones?

--vallon

[Soren]

If annexing parts of Pawtucket or North Providence help Providence to grow and the people that live there benefit from it - then how is it a bad thing? --vallon

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Funny, I was thinking of this the other day. If Providence turns itself around and balances its budget, gets the schools on track, improves services and infrastructure and develops a reputation for clean government, wouldn't Pawtucket, East Providence, North Providence, Cranston, etc. residents at least consider annexation in order to participate in these benefits?

Okay, there's some work to be done first...

[Scott]

However many people live around Providence, live there.... no more no less. It doesn't matter how they are divided. What "benefit" would Pawtucket realize from being part of Providence? The only way that Providence would "grow" is by changing the zoning of those annexed areas and that will not per se constitute a "benefit" . One could argue one way or the other that a local government is better for an area like Pawtucket.

[eltron]

Nobody is talking about turning Providence into Houston. But growth and organization of a city makes sense. If we can move concrete boundaries that cut off sectors of our cities... then why can't we cut through invisible ones?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Huh, this is an interesting take.

In a place as rabidly provincial as Rhode Island, I think it would be exceedingly difficult for annexation of surrounding towns. Yes, annexation was a common practice when large swaths of land remained undeveloped and didn't contribute to the tax rolls, but is a much rarer occurance now that there are few gaps between a city and its surrounding municipalities.

That said, there are very compelling reasons for blurring the lines between municipalities - from a planning standpoint, looking at one interconnected and intertwined REGION instead of several smaller cities and towns makes a tremendous amount of sense. Simpler and potentially more transparant and efficient local government, combined services ie. trash collection, police, fire, education, if done properly, would probably be more efficient, obvious transit and infrastructure improvements, cohesive and logical zoning and ordinances (reduction of sprawl!) and on and on.

In fact, because of Providence's and Rhode Island's unique qualities as The City-State, we kinda have the opportunity to implement regional planning and cooperation on a scale unique in the United States. Will we? THAT is a completely different question!

[Soren]

In fact, because of Providence's and Rhode Island's unique qualities as The City-State, we kinda have the opportunity to implement regional planning and cooperation on a scale unique in the United States. Will we? THAT is a completely different question!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While it is good that fast-growing areas like Las Vegas and Phoenix get a lot of regional planning attention for growth management purposes, it is a shame that the same approach isn't more readily taken for more stable metro areas like Providence.

Providence has the opportunity to lead regional initiatives simply because it is the big kid on the block, not because there is any real regional approach to planning. At least that I know of, maybe I'm wrong.

I would love to see true regional approaches to transit, codified "urban village" based zoning, and a complete de-emphasis on new housing starts as opposed to adaptive re-use and infill development. Preaching to the choir here, and massively off-topic, I know.

[Cotuit]

Providence should totally annex North Providence. How the hell did that place get to be it's own city, I don't even know where it is, except for north of Providence.

[CoreyPortlandME]

Perhaps this is a good thread to ask a buring question of mine...

How far away is Pawtucket from Providence? If I recall correctly, RI isn't the biggest state in the union, so I assume it's not too far out of the way.

[Cotuit]

How far away is Pawtucket from Providence? If I recall correctly, RI isn't the biggest state in the union, so I assume it's not too far out of the way.

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They border each other. From Downtown Providence to Downtown Pawtucket is probably a couple minutes on Route 95.

[Soren]

Perhaps this is a good thread to ask a buring question of mine...

How far away is Pawtucket from Providence? If I recall correctly, RI isn't the biggest state in the union, so I assume it's not too far out of the way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Downtown to downtown is just over 5 miles according to MapQuest.

[EricTheRed]

Hey everyone, I've been reading the boards for a couple of days, but I thought I would chime in on this issue, seeing as I follow the Revolution. A lot of this is optimistic speculation on my part, but there is evidence that a medium-sized market can support an MLS team (Columbus, OH and Salt Lake City coming to mind).

I think a soccer stadium downtown would be a huge hit in Providence, especially if it were built behind the mall, as someone suggested. I don't know how much space would be required, but I know that MLS is focusing on building stadiums which hold 20-30 thousand people. Being close to Kennedy Plaza, the transit would be in place tot bring in people from the various neighborhoods.

I think the city would support the team and grow attached, especially as a way to come out from under the shadow of Boston. In Foxboro, neither Boston nor Providence really has any attachment to the team, but a stadium in the city would generate some excitement, especially with the possibilities of a festive atmosphere pregame on Waterplace, maybe even some joint planning with Waterfire?

Anyway, enough of this dreaming, since this will probably never happen. Kraft won't put any money up for another stadium, since he already has a perfectly good one in Foxboro (though its cavernous size sucks the life out of a crowd of eighteen thousand). The city definitely shouldn't front the entire cost, so unless I win the Powerball and buy the team, I don't think this will ever happen.

If I have any other thoughts, I'll write again later.

[EricTheRed]

Oh, and just for reference, here's an image of the current stadium proposal in Salt Lake:

The exterior facade includes space for several retail and restaurant establishments, but this is just to give an idea of what could be built.

And here's an image of the stadium currently under construction for the Chicago Fire. We'll see whether it will remain true to the design:

And just to note, I shouldn't have listed Salt Lake as evidence of a mid-market team, because this is the team's first year in the league.

[Cotuit]

Welcome Eric,

There's more about the SLC stadium here.

[Zaximillian]

Hello. I'm in the process of creating a fictional sports league for a tabletop sports simulation game. The reason I'm logging onto a Providence BBS is that I need information on all Providence franchises, both past and present, both major and minor league, regular season records and playoff results.

So the first set of questions is this:

What sports franchises has Providence had over its history?

Where can I find all of the appropriate records?

The reason for this is that I'm also creating the complete history for the game, based on information gathered from every franchise, major league and otherwise, that has ever existed all the way back to 1871.

To do a history for MY league (and to make the history readable), I'm compressing all of that sports history into 41 years.

Now for the good stuff. Providence as a sporting city appears multiple times in my "history" at present, so I'm asking the people of Providence:

What colors does a Providence team typically wear?

What name should I give the franchise? What name SHOULD a Providence sports franchise have? What name and colors "screams" Providence?

What city rivalries does Providence have?

So far, I've already included the Providence Grays, but when they disappeared from baseball, I'm left asking myself: "What happened to the Providence franchise in MY league? Did it disband, only to appear later? Are there minor league franchises that can represent it after 1885 in MY minor league system? If so, when?"

Thanks in advance for helping me with some of my research, as it's an IMMENSE task trying to account for all sports teams for over 130 years...

- Zaximillian

[email protected]

[Cotuit]

Well The PawSox (Pawtucket Red Sox) are the closest thing that Providence has to a baseball team today.

For minor league hockey we have The Providence Bruins

Both teams wear the Boston teams' colours, I can't really think of a team color that screams Providence. Maybe the black and grey of the Providence College Friars.

For some history, the Providence Grays are said to have won the first World Series against the New York Metropolitans in 1884.

[gregw]

Well The PawSox (Pawtucket Red Sox) are the closest thing that Providence has to a baseball team today.

For minor league hockey we have The Providence Bruins

Both teams wear the Boston teams' colours, I can't really think of a team color that screams Providence. Maybe the black and grey of the Providence College Friars.

For some history, the Providence Grays are said to have won the first World Series against the New York Metropolitans in 1884.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also there was the Rhode Island Reds for minor league hockey and the Providence Steam Rollers (early NFL team in the 1920s and then a short lived NBA team in the 1940s.) (Article on the basketball team here: http://www.brown.edu/Students/INDY/alpha/o...3/sports/3.html

Anyway, the "Steamrollers" definitely gets my vote as the most original name.

[Loughlin]

I can see why only two people voted for a pro franchise, you just cant compete with Boston.

[Loughlin]

Infact the Providence/NY Mets rivalry actually goes back 121 years when they swept all 3 games against the "New York Metro

BTW the NYC mets didnt exsist till 62.

[Loughlin]

If Providence was crazy enough to build a Ballpark, here is what they should model it after, Pnc park in pittsburgh, an Economical ballpark seating only 36k, they have a great philosophy why build a 50k park when you cant fill a 30k

[Cotuit]

I can see why only two people voted for a pro franchise, you just cant compete with Boston.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's 10 million people in the Boston/Providence market, some apparently believe the market could support two teams, as does New York, Chicago, LA, and the Bay Area. I don't think there is any serious talk of making Boston a two team market, but it's not beyond the realm of possibilty. Frankly, there's a lot of Yankees fans in Rhode Island, as shocking as that may seem.

[Loughlin]

There's 10 million people in the Boston/Providence market, some apparently believe the market could support two teams, as does New York, Chicago, LA, and the Bay Area. I don't think there is any serious talk of making Boston a two team market, but it's not beyond the realm of possibilty. Frankly, there's a lot of Yankees fans in Rhode Island, as shocking as that may seem.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not all that suprising, there are alot in New Hampshire(mostly in the small towns and under the age of 20) that like to pretend to be gangstas with there yankees hats.

[Zaximillian]

Both teams wear the Boston teams' colours, I can't really think of a team color that screams Providence. Maybe the black and grey of the Providence College Friars.

Black and grey, huh? A pretty strong color combination, especially if I add white for edging purposes.

Also there was the Rhode Island Reds for minor league hockey...

Is that all?

Anyway, the "Steamrollers" definitely gets my vote as the most original name.

I sense a pattern here...

Anyway, I've got to get all the information together so I can begin the history of the league. If there were no sports leagues in Providence during the years 1886-1898, Providence doesn't have a sports team at all in any league until... 1924 or so. Is that right?

Anyway, thanks for all the help so far.

- Zaximillian

[gregw]

As I believe Cotuit mentioned, there was the Providence Grays, a National League baseball team back in the 1800s. Here's some more stuff on them:

http://www.providencegrays.org/About_Our_P...ur_project.html

Black and grey, huh? A pretty strong color combination, especially if I add white for edging purposes.

Is that all?

I sense a pattern here...

Anyway, I've got to get all the information together so I can begin the history of the league. If there were no sports leagues in Providence during the years 1886-1898, Providence doesn't have a sports team at all in any league until... 1924 or so. Is that right?

Anyway, thanks for all the help so far.

- Zaximillian

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Frankie811]

Check out the design for the proposed New York Jets stadium. Talk about mordern.

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.ph...topic=8541&st=0

[mod134]

The Champcar World Series races Indycars with Ford engines and a lot of horsepower. This year' they will race in the following cities: Long Beach, CA; Monterrey, Mexico; Miwaukee, WI; Portland, OR; Cleveland, OH; Toronto, ONT; Edmonton, ALB; San Jose, CA; Denver, CO; Montreal, QUE; Las Vegas, NV; South Korea; Australia; and Mexico City.

7 of the races -- Long Beach, Cleveland, Toronto, Edmonton, San Jose, Denver, and Surfers Paradise, Australia -- are temporary street course races.

I believe that this is a good idea for the city of Providence to look into.

Currently this series doesn't have an event on the East Coast. Although, they have had races at the (permanant oval) New Hampshire Int'l Speedway in Loudon.

What do you think of the idea? I think it would be great TV exposure for the city and showcase all we have to offer. This could also work with the renovated Dunkin Donuts Center with more concerts, events and maybe a new franchise lik an Arena Football or WNBA team .

[Cotuit]

Welcome mod134.

There's a Providence Sports thread where some idea like WNBA and Arena Football have been brought up before.

Is there a website for Champcar World Series? It sounds interesting. Could be an event like the X-Games.