NASCAR Hall of Fame

[Dale]

Having live in Daytona, and near Charlotte, I'd be happy with either one.

Kansas City would just be wrong, though.

[satalac]

i think charlotte should get it. sure daytona is a famous race and whatnot and nascar was "officially" born there. but the real grassroots of nascar are in the mountains of north carolina and tennessee. charlotte is home tosome of the best teams of nascar. i still don't know why k.c. was even brought into this. when i think nascar, k.c. doesn't pop into my head. good luck charlotte!

[UptownGrrl]

An article in the Business Journal today discusses the current state of the competition to land the Nascar Hall of Fame. The state really supports the idea, but unfortunately, seems to be a little light on the cash. There is talk of bolstering the bid through the donation of land, and the article mentions "land designated for the convention center's expansion" and the "Hall Marshall county site on North Tryon". A final note mentions Daniel Levine's willingness to discuss his First Ward property, but says he has not be contacted.

Nobody's commenting on financing at this point, apparantly because there are a lot of options on how to approach it and it seems no one wants to commit to a position. Meanwhile, it looks like some of the other contenders (Daytona, Atlanta and Kansas City) have prepared to pony up some big bucks and have lined up locations and big-time corporate support.

What do you all think 1.) the hall of fame will potentially do for local tourism and the economy, 2.) How vigorously should Charlotte/NC compete (i.e. $$$) for it, and 3.) Where do you think it should be built if it does come to town?

[atlrvr]

1. I think that it will have a fairly positive impact on the local tourism economy, hopefully helping vacancies at hotels. I'm not sure how many people would already come to Charlotte to visit team shops, but I'm certain there would be a noticable impact.

2. I'm a bit peeved that the mayor and other councilmembers seem so pro this HOF and reluctant to commit to arts projects that have been in line for 4 years now. I will be outraged if they find money for this, and push the Mint Museum, Bethcler, and Discovery Place further down the list of priorities. I would like this to fall upon the state to actually bring something to Charlotte for once, but since most tourist dollars stay at the local leve, and the state is broke, I'm not sure how this will play. Ultimately, I think that the race team owners need to step up financially as well as Bruton Smith and Humpy Wheeler. This is a way to help fill seats at the races, and promote visits to their shops to buy souveniors. Also, Lowe's seems like a likely candidate to want to slap their name on this, but I haven't heard them mentioned. The banks of course have said they would help, but they typically don't seem to market to the NASCAR audience, so I'm not sure how strong their financial support will be....and I'd say forget about Duke at the moment.

3. As I've said in previous posts, I think this is a better fit at a LRT station outside of downtown....possibly by Tyvola, or Woodlawn. This would help keep the land prices down, allow ample parking, still encourage transit ridership, and not waste valuable uptown land on a potential non-taxpayer.

[skysdalimit]

Well, I heard it might go on the NW side of Uptown near the grain silos.

[monsoon]

Yes in fact I have heard on Graham street at I-277. It did not hear which side of I-277, but NASCAR is happy with the location being by a major highway.

Good point atlrvr about the State providing funds for this project. They are very stingy with funds of this type when it comes to Charlotte.

The good news is that Daytona's bid is quickly falling apart. This article is interesting.

[Miesian Corners]

atlrvr, you hit it right on the money (so to speak). I will be sorely piss*d if this happens with public money, while Bechtler, Mint and Discovery get passed over (again). Who wants uptown Charlotte littered with chicken bones anyway? This is one project I have no problem losing to another city.

[eastsider]

^ I see yuor point and in most other cases I would agree, but I think this is a special case. This is a huge opportunity for Charlotte to gain national exposure and tourist revenue. Rick Hendricks race shop alone gets over 200,000 visitors a year. As discussed on the other thread about the hof, the possibilities are endless when combining the hof with tour packages to other race shops and driving schools at the speedway and so on. Combining the speed channel studios with the hof is like free advertising for it.

The state has already expressed interest in help lure and fund the hof. Plus their should be plenty of private money involved too. With the additional hotel and car rental taxes, funding for the museums shouldn't be too far behind. A few years in the life of a city is really not that long.

[nyxmike]

Well, maybe it will lead to a demand in hotel space, and we could see a hotel or two pop up in the city (which means more skyscrapers ).

[monsoon]

I can't say that I agree with the "chicken bones" comment. NASCAR is a very clean sport compared to say the NBA and its drivers can be considered role models to children as apposed to the drug ridden players in the other major leagues. Charlotte would be very very fortunate to get this landmark. I would much rather support this venture with public money than what we did by selling out to the NBA and buiding them a $350M arena that most of the public can't afford to go to.

[Mobuchu]

Yeah, I dont think this is a project we can afford to pass up. The name recognition around the country would be great for Charlotte. NASCAR is not like the other sports, the "blue collar" fans follow it with a different passion. People from ohio, the northeast, texas will make the trip to come to the big races like the coca-cola 600. Having a HOF here would be an even bigger incentive, and maybe, just maybe, would consider Charlotte as a vaction spot for a family that is big into NASCAR. With the race shops, Dale Earnhart memorial, the speedway, and a HOF would be enough for a family to consider us.

[cw52808]

This HOF, when it is built will be the equivilent of the Baseball, Football, and Basketball HOF all combined into one complex. Charlotte, and the State of North Carolina cannot afford to lose such a large tourism booster. Think of the impact it would have. They estimate that at least 1 million people will visit it every year. Depending on the design of the HOF, combined with the other great NASCAR attractions here, it could generate an annual visitation is excess of 2 million. Even with a bare miniumum of 1 million, think of the changes that would accompany it; Charlotte's skyline would be dramatically impacted by the emergence of towering hotels; the revenue generated by the hotel/motel tax; the revenue that would be pumped into shops downtown could bring an economic stimulus to Charlotte that we have never seen; visitation to Discovery Place, the Mint Museum, Bechtler's Museum. This is a must have for the city, it's a once in a forever type deal. It would be a tremendous mistake for us not to make our best effort to get this.

[Raintree21]

Who wants uptown Charlotte littered with chicken bones anyway?  This is one project I have no problem losing to another city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Those "chicken bones" you hate so much add $500 million to the Charlotte region economy every year and provides employment to thousands of people.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

i sure hope this gets built, a big attraction uptown would be awesome.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

Also, I hate seeing flordia getting more major tourist attractions. They got enough of them already.

[skysdalimit]

This project has my full support, I sure hope the state doesn't screw us over this time.

[Miesian Corners]

Those "chicken bones" you hate so much add $500 million to the Charlotte region economy every year and provides employment to thousands of people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The jobs are great, it's the majority of the fans I could do without. Call me a snob, but you can dress it up anyway you want. You can tell me it's "reaching out to a whole new demographic". That it's now a white collar sport. I don't buy it.

The vast majority of people who visit for races at Lowe's never leave their campsite. They buy their groceries back home and bring them here. They eat in the infield or at their tent. They never see a restaurant. They buy t-shirts from vendors who don't pay taxes. The only ones who benefit are convienience store owners selling gasoline so these folks can drive back home and Bruton Smith who makes billions, but gives none of it back to his community.

I grew up with NASCAR. I worked at the Darlington International Raceway for four years in college. I spent countless days with my dad in the infield of "The Rock". I know first hand what happens there (an episode of Hee Haw with beer, cigarettes, expletives and sex in campers). I've even tried to give NASCAR another chance by going to Nextel with friends last year (who swore "it's different now"). I saw the same demographic I saw growing up. A chicken bone fell on my head. Unless you're in a skybox, it's the same sport. For entertainment value, it was great. Not to mention my self-esteem skyrocketing after attending the event.

We all rail against the outside world's perceptions of us; how we hate being viewed as bumpkins and rednecks. But yet people insist that this Hall of Fame will be good for the world view of Charlotte. How's that?

monsoon, the $350 million arena will be for far more than NBA basketball. I plan to see concerts, college basketball, hockey, etc there. It's already generating millions in additonal tax revenue for land around it (ULI just finished a study for the two "pork chop" sized parcels on the north side of the arena that are to include two 25-story condo towers and two 3-000 space parking garages). It will be used nearly every week of the year pulling thousands of additonal people to uptown Charlotte during after-work hours. I'll take that over two weeks a year in Concord anyday. How often does that big oval get used the rest of the year, anyway? Taxes to pay for it are coming from hotle/motel/rental car. My Charlotte-Mecklenburg taxes didn't pay for a dime of it. And by the way, my ticket to Nextel was $90. An NBA game is around $40.

[eastsider]

The vast majority of people who visit for races at Lowe's never leave their campsite.  They buy their groceries back home and bring them here.  They eat in the infield or at their tent.  They never see a restaurant.  They buy t-shirts from vendors who don't pay taxes.  The only ones who benefit are convienience store owners selling gasoline so these folks can drive back home and Bruton Smith who makes billions, but gives none of it back to his community.

monsoon, the $350 million arena will be for far more than NBA basketball.  I plan to see concerts, college basketball, hockey, etc there.  It's already generating millions in additonal tax revenue for land around it (ULI just finished a study for the two "pork chop" sized parcels on the north side of the arena that are to include two 25-story condo towers and two 3-000 space parking garages).  It will be used nearly every week of the year pulling thousands of additonal people to uptown Charlotte during after-work hours.  I'll take that over two weeks a year in Concord anyday.  How often does that big oval get used the rest of the year, anyway?  Taxes to pay for it are coming from hotle/motel/rental car.  My Charlotte-Mecklenburg taxes didn't pay for a dime of it.  And by the way, my ticket to Nextel was $90.  An NBA game is around $40.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with some of your points, but you cannot deny the economic impact of the race weeks. The Nextel All-Star Race brings in 94 million a year, UAW-GM 500 (fall race) 106 million, could not find number for Coca-Cola 600 but since it's the biggest race it has to be over 100 million. That's a big part of the hotel/motel tax.

The hall of fame will be a year round attraction so that leaves 50 weeks a year where people will not be camping at the speedway.

[ElricSeven]

The jobs are great, it's the majority of the fans I could do without.  Call me a snob, but you can dress it up anyway you want.  You can tell me it's "reaching out to a whole new demographic".  That it's now a white collar sport.  I don't buy it. 

The vast majority of people who visit for races at Lowe's never leave their campsite.  They buy their groceries back home and bring them here.  They eat in the infield or at their tent.  They never see a restaurant.  They buy t-shirts from vendors who don't pay taxes.  The only ones who benefit are convienience store owners selling gasoline so these folks can drive back home and Bruton Smith who makes billions, but gives none of it back to his community. 

I grew up with NASCAR.  I worked at the Darlington International Raceway for four years in college.  I  spent countless days with my dad in the infield of "The Rock".  I know first hand what happens there (an episode of Hee Haw with beer, cigarettes, expletives and sex in campers).  I've even tried to give NASCAR another chance by going to Nextel with friends last year (who swore "it's different now").  I saw the same demographic I saw growing up.  A chicken bone fell on my head.  Unless you're in a skybox, it's the same sport.  For entertainment value, it was great.  Not to mention my self-esteem skyrocketing after attending the event. 

We all rail against the outside world's perceptions of us; how we hate being viewed as bumpkins and rednecks.  But yet people insist that this Hall of Fame will be good for the world view of Charlotte.  How's that?     

monsoon, the $350 million arena will be for far more than NBA basketball.  I plan to see concerts, college basketball, hockey, etc there.  It's already generating millions in additonal tax revenue for land around it (ULI just finished a study for the two "pork chop" sized parcels on the north side of the arena that are to include two 25-story condo towers and two 3-000 space parking garages).  It will be used nearly every week of the year pulling thousands of additonal people to uptown Charlotte during after-work hours.  I'll take that over two weeks a year in Concord anyday.  How often does that big oval get used the rest of the year, anyway?  Taxes to pay for it are coming from hotle/motel/rental car.  My Charlotte-Mecklenburg taxes didn't pay for a dime of it.  And by the way, my ticket to Nextel was $90.  An NBA game is around $40.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Although maybe agreeing that I don't want Charlotte to be viewed as only a NASCAR town, I don't agree on your assessment that there will be no economic impact. We'll get a steady stream (not just two events a year like the race track) of 3,000 visitors a day to the place in Uptown and it isn't like a race - there's nowhere to park campers and cook out and do all those other activities that wouldn't directly benefit the area. They'll have to have hotel rooms and their meals Uptown in most instances. I don't really care what demographic it is, it will put Charlotte on the map and the money is still green. I'd rather we have a chance to explain that we're more than just NASCAR after it is brought up in the media of other cities, than have no one even know we're here at all.

[eastsider]

Well, I heard it might go on the NW side of Uptown near the grain silos.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This worries me as I don't see it as a desirable area for tourist.

My preferred site would be in 3rd ward within a few blocks of the multi-modal transit center. The area is already start to come alive with development and more is sure to come with 3rd ward park. I think it will have more opportunities for restaurants and shopping than the area around the silos. Plus, with commuter rail to Mooresville, you could easily work out a tour package with shuttles from the train station to visit various race shops.

That being said I think the likely site will be the Hal Marshall property. It could have a presence on tryon street with easy acess to 277.

[Mobuchu]

The jobs are great, it's the majority of the fans I could do without. Call me a snob, but you can dress it up anyway you want. You can tell me it's "reaching out to a whole new demographic". That it's now a white collar sport. I don't buy it.

The vast majority of people who visit for races at Lowe's never leave their campsite. They buy their groceries back home and bring them here. They eat in the infield or at their tent. They never see a restaurant. They buy t-shirts from vendors who don't pay taxes. The only ones who benefit are convienience store owners selling gasoline so these folks can drive back home and Bruton Smith who makes billions, but gives none of it back to his community.

I grew up with NASCAR. I worked at the Darlington International Raceway for four years in college. I spent countless days with my dad in the infield of "The Rock". I know first hand what happens there (an episode of Hee Haw with beer, cigarettes, expletives and sex in campers). I've even tried to give NASCAR another chance by going to Nextel with friends last year (who swore "it's different now"). I saw the same demographic I saw growing up. A chicken bone fell on my head. Unless you're in a skybox, it's the same sport. For entertainment value, it was great. Not to mention my self-esteem skyrocketing after attending the event.

We all rail against the outside world's perceptions of us; how we hate being viewed as bumpkins and rednecks. But yet people insist that this Hall of Fame will be good for the world view of Charlotte. How's that?

monsoon, the $350 million arena will be for far more than NBA basketball. I plan to see concerts, college basketball, hockey, etc there. It's already generating millions in additonal tax revenue for land around it (ULI just finished a study for the two "pork chop" sized parcels on the north side of the arena that are to include two 25-story condo towers and two 3-000 space parking garages). It will be used nearly every week of the year pulling thousands of additonal people to uptown Charlotte during after-work hours. I'll take that over two weeks a year in Concord anyday. How often does that big oval get used the rest of the year, anyway? Taxes to pay for it are coming from hotle/motel/rental car. My Charlotte-Mecklenburg taxes didn't pay for a dime of it. And by the way, my ticket to Nextel was $90. An NBA game is around $40.

I dont know where you got that impression. Im from up north and thought the races would be big redneck conventions, but there not. The sport has grown on me and I go to every race and love the experience every time. Family and friends come down to see the 600 every year and they have a great time. You must have gone on a bad day and sat in the wrong section and in the wrong seat.

And uptown is packed the week of the 600. Im pretty sure their not all bringing groceries from home when they visit race week in uptown...

[ElricSeven]

It's already generating millions in additonal tax revenue for land around it (ULI just finished a study for the two "pork chop" sized parcels on the north side of the arena that are to include two 25-story condo towers and two 3-000 space parking garages).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Any way to get an idea how close this is to being implemented? Or, perhaps the results released?

[atlrvr]

ElricSeven......the final report is done. I flipped through it the other day. I would assume that it should be announced soon. The plan for the pork-chops is indeed impressive, but some of it is already dated (i.e....it doesn't take UNCC into account)

As far as implementiation, there has to be a formal presentation to CCCP, who this must meet with the city, the city must then issue a RFQ based on the report if they agree with the suggestions, then a developer must be selected.........I can't see ground turning on these for at least 3 years, but hopefully Bob Johnson will be eager to step up to the plate like he's hinted.....

The rest of the plan seems a bit nebulous.....they want a pedestrian shopping area along the rail line and to call it "The Tracks" Pretty much the ball is in Levine's court. I think I heard cooperdawg mention that he is going to commisions yet another land plan

[ElricSeven]

ElricSeven......the final report is done.  I flipped through it the other day.  I would assume that it should be announced soon.  The plan for the pork-chops is indeed impressive, but some of it is already dated (i.e....it doesn't take UNCC into account)

As far as implementiation, there has to be a formal presentation to CCCP, who this must meet with the city, the city must then issue a RFQ based on the report if they agree with the suggestions, then a developer must be selected.........I can't see ground turning on these for at least 3 years, but hopefully Bob Johnson will be eager to step up to the plate like he's hinted.....

The rest of the plan seems a bit nebulous.....they want a pedestrian shopping area along the rail line and to call it "The Tracks"    Pretty much the ball is in Levine's court.  I think I heard cooperdawg mention that he is going to commisions yet another land plan 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Levine's doing another land plan?

If I was that slow and unproductive at work, they'd can me. Sell the land to Ghazi or Furman, at least they've got some energy for the task in front of them.

[dubone]

The only thing positive from him doing YET ANOTHER plan, is that he is likely revising density upward to match the market.

No matter what his plans, he still think he is strategically intending to wait until the 2010 timeframe before making a major push on his land. I think his desire is to be surrounded on three or four sides by healthy development. He is business man and wants to make sure he gets the most out of the land, and doesn't mind sitting on it in the meantime.