NASCAR Hall of Fame

[Lady Celeste]

Coke Museum, Home Depot Aquarium, Nascar Museum,  etc etc.  Our lives are completely controlled by the corporations.  Oh well, I digress...

The Georgia Aquarium was not built buy Home Depot. It was commissioned by Bernard Marcus...a founder and former Chairman of the Board for Home Depot. He pledged $200 million of his own money to build the aquarium. Home Depot is in no way affliated with the Georgia Aquarium, either public or private. The georgia Aquarium currently has no corporate backing.

monsoon, I know you didn't allege that it was. It was thrown out there by someone else. I wanted to clear that up because we all know how easy it is for someone to say one thing and it becomes gospel. I do not want to take anything from the wonderful gift that Mr Marcus has family has bestowed on Atlanta, Georgia and the study of the marine biology.

Now that that service announcement has been made.....you said:

I don't think it will end up in Atlanta.  But I have a hard time believing that it will end up in Charlotte too if the goal of Nascar is to spread the wealth around so to speak.  Putting the HOF in Charlotte would be like taking sand to the beach.  Nascar doesn't need any more attractions in Charlotte. 

My vote goes to Richmond.  Its the closest to the North East, which Nascar would greatly love to break into.  Daytona is simply too far away from most of the USA, and I think KC is just a Red Herring.  Nobody will go there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to agree with you on this point you made. If NASCAR's purpose os to increase the market then you are correct in your analogy. The only reason why I felt Charlotte would get it is because....I'm about to step on some toes here....Charlotte has a much better national cache' than Richmond. Also, Charlotte has more concentration of NASCAR things to do. Charlotte also has a great population within it's CSA than Richmond.

We have to be careful in placing the HOF in small markets because NASCAR is trying to capture on the repeat visitor. I'm not real familiar with everything Richmond has to offer but you can't have the HOF with a real high two year intial count followed by years of minimal attendance. The RocK & Roll HOF is currently having this same issue. Ture enough, Richmond is closer to the NE than Charlotte but you may be more apt to get some person in Manhattan to visit Charlotte than Richmond. They could be induced to visit for multiple reason other than just the HOF.

To me Charlotte possess all the virtues....large local population base, national cache', large business presence, growing convention industry, ingrained history and large international airport.

But that's just my feeling.

[monsoon]

I think you don't want to put a hall-of-fame in an experimental market, it might turn out to be an embarrassment if no one goes because the experiment fails.  ....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think I would call Richmond an experimental Nascar market.

[ElricSeven]

I don't think I would call Richmond an experimental Nascar market.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then wanting to make inroads in the NE isn't the motivation? Regardless, even if it is put there, I still don't think it will make any converts. Die hard fans go to halls-of-fame, it doesn't convert people to becoming fans of a sport.

[monsoon]

Then what is Nascar's reason for building the HOF? Certainly it is to increase the appeal of the sport.

[ElricSeven]

Then what is Nascar's reason for building the HOF?  Certainly it is to increase the appeal of the sport.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would see this as the equivalent of growing same-store sales instead of opening a new store. They're trying to squeeze more money out of existing fans. I strongly doubt the HOF will make any converts on its own, or in combination with the sport's other attractions provide much of an increase in the fan base. Newbies will be drawn in by current races that are accessible and well-advertised.

[ilektronik]

Then what is Nascar's reason for building the HOF?  Certainly it is to increase the appeal of the sport.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would disagree. It seems more logical that the purpose of the HoF is to validate Nascar as a "true" sport in the eyes of the general population.

[ElricSeven]

I would disagree. It seems more logical that the purpose of the HoF is to validate Nascar as a "true" sport in the eyes of the general population.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe, but how many more people are going to say, "Wow, they've got a Hall of Fame, maybe this is a real sport and I have to go see a race." I really, really don't see it working out that way. You don't care about the history of the sport until you're very deep into it. You either see it on TV and it is fun to watch, or you go to a race and it is fun to watch, and you become a fan. If you're opinion is that NASCAR is dumb, a hall of fame won't change your mind.

[SmellyCat]

NASCAR will become a "mainstream" sport in the NE the way hockey is a "mainstream" sport in the Southeast. It will continue to make some market penetration, but unfortunately the general collective snobbery of the NE cities will never allow it to be seen as anything other than a redneck sport there, ESPECIALLY since it has southern roots. Putting the HOF a little closer to those cities will have no effect on tilting its fan base northward.

[ilektronik]

Maybe, but how many more people are going to say, "Wow, they've got a Hall of Fame, maybe this is a real sport and I have to go see a race."  I really, really don't see it working out that way.  You don't care about the history of the sport until you're very deep into it.  You either see it on TV and it is fun to watch, or you go to a race and it is fun to watch, and you become a fan.  If you're opinion is that NASCAR is dumb, a hall of fame won't change your mind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess it depends on the person. The only reason I gave Nascar a chance was because I saw that they were getting a HoF, so I thought ,"hmmm....let me go see what this thing is all about". I know I can only speak for myself though.

[ElricSeven]

I guess it depends on the person. The only reason I gave Nascar a chance was because I saw that they were getting a HoF, so I thought ,"hmmm....let me go see what this thing is all about". I know I can only speak for myself though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's all any of us can do, really. But, my observation has been contrary to this, so we'll have to see what happens. Should be interesting wherever it goes.

[monsoon]

NASCAR will become a "mainstream" sport in the NE the way hockey is a "mainstream" sport in the Southeast.  It will continue to make some market penetration, but unfortunately the general collective snobbery of the NE cities will never allow it to be seen as anything other than a redneck sport there, ESPECIALLY since it has southern roots.  Putting the HOF a little closer to those cities will have no effect on tilting its fan base northward.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe you forget the fact that WWE wrestling is based in NYC and grew to take over every other wrestling franchise in the country including the former CLT based WCW.

I can't speak for the rest of the south but the NHL failed in Raleigh because it wasn't promoted and the NHL is generally in bad decline anyway. You don't grow a sport by closing it down for an entire season.

On the other hand NASCAR is the biggest growing sport in the world right now and demographics wise the average income for a Nascar fan has risen to over $60K/year. With 90 million people in the Northeast, I don't see how Nascar can afford to keep avoiding this market. I think they are much more open to stock car racing than some would believe.

[ElricSeven]

Maybe you forget the fact that WWE wrestling is based in NYC and grew to take over every other wrestling franchise in the country including the former CLT based WCW. 

I can't speak for the rest of the south but the NHL failed in Raleigh because it wasn't promoted and the NHL is generally in bad decline anyway.  You don't grow a sport by closing it down for an entire season. 

On the other hand NASCAR is the biggest growing sport in the world right now and demographics wise the average income for a Nascar fan has risen to over $60K/year.  With 90 million people in the Northeast, I don't see how Nascar can afford to keep avoiding this market.  I think they are much more open to stock car racing than some would believe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sure they are, but putting the hall of fame a 150 miles or so north of here to somehow grow the sport more in the Northeast is a mistake. Most of the Northeast won't be driving to Richmond or Charlotte and the experience will be 10x better here because of all the race teams. Instead of a short isolated trip, it becomes a visit to the Mecca of racing with a dozen racing-oriented things to do that would take up a whole week for a visit.

And, again, I don't think the HOF is going to make that many converts. They're pretty boring if you aren't interested in the minutae of the sport learned from years of already watching. All the simulators in the world won't win over as many people as being at the tracking, hearing the noise and seeing the excitement of the race unfolding.

[SmellyCat]

Maybe you forget the fact that WWE wrestling is based in NYC and grew to take over every other wrestling franchise in the country including the former CLT based WCW. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The WWE is based in Stamford, CT.

And I would debate you if you think most people believe this is a sport and not a circus sideshow.

[monsoon]

And, again, I don't think the HOF is going to make that many converts.  They're pretty boring if you aren't interested in the minutae of the sport learned from years of already watching.  All the simulators in the world won't win over as many people as being at the tracking, hearing the noise and seeing the excitement of the race unfolding.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is why you spread the wealth around. Richmond is 6 hours closer to the NE and also a major train destination. Put the HOF there combined with the races that Richmond already has, (it isn't a dead nascar city) and you increase the incentives for millions to make a day trip they otherwise might not make to learn about the sport.

Charlotte with its very expensive tourist airfares is not nearly as attractive from that viewpoint and it is simply too far to drive for the causaully interested fan. And most important, Nascar doesn't lose anything by not putting it in Charlotte.

[A2]

speaking of Expensive airfare, does anyone know if the US Air merger will bring in cheaper tickets??? From what I understand it will. I KNOW I AM WAAAAAY OFF topic here, but that might have some play into bringing tourists (ie NASCAR fans) into the queen city w/out having to pay an arm and a leg to get here.

[SmellyCat]

speaking of Expensive airfare, does anyone know if the US Air merger will bring in cheaper tickets??? From what I understand it will.  I KNOW I AM WAAAAAY OFF topic here, but that might have some play into bringing tourists (ie NASCAR fans) into the queen city w/out having to pay an arm and a leg to get here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A2 - I have noticed that airfares between CLT and NYC has dropped considerably in the past year. I used to regularly pay $700 to $800 for a r/t ticket, so I would often drive to Greensboro to get a cheaper fare. Now I usually get one in the $200 to $300 range. I think competition has helped push down fares.

[monsoon]

The WWE is based in Stamford, CT.

And I would debate you if you think most people believe this is a sport and not a circus sideshow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Haha samething, if not worse in what you called NE snobbery. If it wasn't for the fans that exist in the NYC metro the WCW would not exist today. I woundn't even begin to suggest the WWE is a sport, but the reason that I bring it up is that much of Nascar's base are also fans of the WWE. If the WCW can grow and prosper there, then so can Nascar, snobs be damned.

But I really think Nascar is becoming more of a mainstream sport anyway as people (families) turn away from the excesses, drugs, huge money contracts, bad role models, labor and management fights, and crime found in MLB, the NFL and the NBA. None of that exists with the Nascar drivers and teams. These people appear much more human and closer to regular people. That has a huge appeal to middle class families with kids.

[SmellyCat]

But I really think Nascar is becoming more of a mainstream sport anyway as people (families) turn away from the excesses, drugs, huge money contracts, bad role models, labor and management fights,  and crime found in MLB, the NFL and the NBA.  None of that exists with the Nascar drivers and teams.  These people appear  much more human and closer to regular people.  That has a huge appeal to middle class families with kids.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yep I definitely agree with you there. There are not too many sports left where the fans feel they can relate to the players/athletes as everyday people. Nascar is certainly it. At the other extreme, you have the NBA

[A2]

Thanks SC. This is certainly something that will go in our favor moving forward. I know CLT has been notorious for high fares since US AIR has had somewhat of a monopoly on the gates. I think things going forward will improve dramatically, especially with the merger. This bodes well for a NASCAR HofF, if, in fact, we git it. Maybe Charlotte, the Airport, and NASCAR could come together to put a nice package together. Something like a Ride around the Track event @ Lowes, plus a three day all pass ticket to the new HofF, then add a bus tour of the various Nascar celeberties homes, and teams HQ's. Just a thougt. I think it would market quite well. Give something more that just the HofF, make it a package deal for Travel Agencies to market to that crowd.

A2

[monsoon]

I think they used to have events where fans could ride and drive cars on the track, but Bruton Smith ended it due to liability reasons. i.e. the insurance companies made him stop because of the ambulance chasing lawyers salivating like pavlov's dogs waiting for an accident to happen.

[A2]

I think they used to have events where fans could ride and drive cars on the track, but Bruton Smith ended it due to liability reasons.  i.e. the insurance companies made him stop because of the ambulance chasing lawyers salivating like pavlov's dogs waiting for an accident to happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know they used to do it at Talledega too. I wonder if the same thing has stopped their tour around the track because of these types of "potential lawsuits".

A2

[redjeep77]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/spo...ts/12390328.htm

is it just me who thinks that this is troubling? or is this just so that we don't get our hopes up? I too have been worried about what Poole says. But i will tell you this.....nobody has ever gotten very far by bitting the hand that feeds them! If the France family puts the hall anywhere but CLT, then they are gonna have a lot of trouble they didn't expect to encounter. It may be the "straw that broke the camel's back" for NASCAR's rising popularity. Having already taken all of these race dates from the people who built the sport....geeze, what a slap in the face!

[monsoon]

I guess I could be wrong about KC vs Richmond. But I do agree with the article's intent that its going to be a cold day before the France family adds anything new to Nascar in Charlotte or NC for that matter. It's no secret that Bruton Smith and the France family don't get along and Smith is the king of Nascar here. This is all speculation of course and on paper Charlotte's bid is the strongest and honestly if I had to choose between these 5 cities as places to visit, CLT would be at the top of the list, so it may very well end up here. But I do think there is more to this than meets the eye.

[skysdalimit]

Yep, the only reason we will lose this is because of politics.

[jb4563]

Well, Altanta only had 100 people show up to show their support for the HOF. (And if you see pictures of it...they didn't look like race fans...looked like people pulled off the street).

Hopefully, Charlotte will show up...