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NASCAR Hall of Fame


cityboi

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^ They don't have the $ to fund the project the way nascar wants it. So no, Daytona isn't a frontrunner

I saw the renderings in the paper and they all looked very similar??? Daytona's $ was coming from private sources I thought. Most of the other projects were relying in some part on public funding?

Did you have some facts and figures I may not have seen or am aware of?

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  • 3 weeks later...

Does anyone think that NASCAR will pick Charlotte to solidify its based, much like Bush picking Judge Alito? What are the chances that Charlotte would build a competing stockcar museum if it didn't get chosen?

With B Smith around the corner it is entirely plauseable ???

A2

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To be honest, I hope Charlotte doesn't get the Nascar HOF. Charlotte just isn't a tourist destination. Unless it's for business or conventions, the only people visiting Charlotte are from surrounding states (mostly NC and SC though) for concerts, sporting events (except for the Whitewater Park which has the potential for drawing people from all over), and shopping. Personally, I'd rather see all of the money that would be used to build the HOF go towards the art projects. I think the arts would have a much bigger impact on the city (they provide much needed culture and education). They might not have the economic impact of a HOF, but people from surrounding states will come to see the museums (the Bechtler collection), broadway plays, musical performances and symphonies. As a result, they will stay in hotels, eat at restaurants (locals too), etc. I just have a feeling that if Charlotte lands the HOF, the arts projects are going to be put on hold, again. They can't keep raising the rental car tax, and corporate support for the arts is definately there - they just donated more money - now it's $35 million I think? Besides, most companies looking to relocate don't care whether a city has a HOF or not - they look at other things (quality of life), such as art and culture, entertainment (major league sports), good schools, low crime, etc...

If businesses and people wanted to live in tourist destinations, then cities like Charleston, Myrtle Beach, Atlantic City, Aspen, etc. would all be huge cities right now, but they aren't (the only exception I know of is Las Vegas). Cities like NY, LA, and Miami never tried to become a tourist destination, they naturally became one. NY has so much history, great shopping, culture and art, and thats why most people go there - to sight see, shop, and eat. LA has Hollywood and the beach, and Miami has great nightlife and the beach. Charlotte will never be these cities, and it won't have to be in order to "survive." It needs to focus on it's liveability factor, schools, crime rate, cheap housing, and cultural options - the things that made Charlotte grow in the first place. Everything else will fall into place over time...

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Besides, most companies looking to relocate don't care whether a city has a HOF or not - they look at other things (quality of life), such as art and culture, entertainment (major league sports), good schools, low crime, etc...

I couldn't agree more.....

I would like to see Charlotte to get the HOF, just because hotel revenue is such a tremendous tax boost (hotels generate far more tax dollars than any other type of real estate), but if it comes down to arts or HOF, then it's got to be the arts.

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Does anyone think that NASCAR will pick Charlotte to solidify its based, much like Bush picking Judge Alito?

I think NASCAR has better sense than the idiot running this country. When they start making decisions like he does, they are done as a sport as they will be bankrupted, going to jail, and losing all credibility that you can believe anything they say. Ok rant off. ;)

I don't have any idea if NASCAR will choose Charlotte or not. However there is $100M in downtown investment right off if they do choose Charlotte, so I would not be so quick to say "we don't want them." We do not get the money if the city loses out. Along with this $100M in capital investment there will be ongoing salaries, people spending money downtown, spinoff business, etc. I don't see how Charlotte could say no to it. It's good for the city, the CBD, and provides some badly needed distinction the city lacks from at a national level.

In regards to the Arts. This organization has consistantly failed to explain why they should get preferential treatment from the taxpayers. There have been bond referendums in the past for the arts that got turned down, because they have not been good stewards of the public's money. I say let them get in like like everyone else at the tax trough. I don't want to pay property taxes so people can do "art" without getting an explaination as to exactly what this means and how they will be held accountable.

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First off, this is just my opinion, so don't take it so seriously (or offensively):

Well, I guess the question is... Does the "much needed national distinction" have to be NASCAR? Regardless of NASCAR's boost in popularity, doesn't it still have a redneck stereotype? I guess I just don't associate "world-class" with NASCAR. Don't even get me started on the checkered flag designed "Welcome to Charlotte" sign painted on a concrete wall when you enter and exit the airport - it's tacky :sick:

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I would assume that a $100 million HOF might be one of the first steps to shrug off that stereotype of it being a redneck sport. It is already, revenue and attendence wise, a bigger sport than the NBA.

I saw NASCAR merchandise for sell in Tokyo, in a store devoted to the sport and it was well attended. Many of the items in the store pointed right back to Charlotte NC. I don't think they know what redneck means there and it was the only exposure to NC that I saw in all of Japan.

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To be honest, I hope Charlotte doesn't get the Nascar HOF. Charlotte just isn't a tourist destination. Unless it's for business or conventions, the only people visiting Charlotte are from surrounding states (mostly NC and SC though) for concerts, sporting events (except for the Whitewater Park which has the potential for drawing people from all over), and shopping. Personally, I'd rather see all of the money that would be used to build the HOF go towards the art projects. I think the arts would have a much bigger impact on the city (they provide much needed culture and education). They might not have the economic impact of a HOF, but people from surrounding states will come to see the museums (the Bechtler collection), broadway plays, musical performances and symphonies. As a result, they will stay in hotels, eat at restaurants (locals too), etc. I just have a feeling that if Charlotte lands the HOF, the arts projects are going to be put on hold, again. They can't keep raising the rental car tax, and corporate support for the arts is definately there - they just donated more money - now it's $35 million I think? Besides, most companies looking to relocate don't care whether a city has a HOF or not - they look at other things (quality of life), such as art and culture, entertainment (major league sports), good schools, low crime, etc...

If businesses and people wanted to live in tourist destinations, then cities like Charleston, Myrtle Beach, Atlantic City, Aspen, etc. would all be huge cities right now, but they aren't (the only exception I know of is Las Vegas). Cities like NY, LA, and Miami never tried to become a tourist destination, they naturally became one. NY has so much history, great shopping, culture and art, and thats why most people go there - to sight see, shop, and eat. LA has Hollywood and the beach, and Miami has great nightlife and the beach. Charlotte will never be these cities, and it won't have to be in order to "survive." It needs to focus on it's liveability factor, schools, crime rate, cheap housing, and cultural options - the things that made Charlotte grow in the first place. Everything else will fall into place over time...

Amen to that. I have no problem with the HOF in Charlotte, as long as NASCAR pays for it. Out tax dollars are better invested in the things that make this a great place to live. The HOF is way down my list of priorities. Sometimes it's good to do projects like this to boost the local economy, but in this case the incremental business is just not there and we have larger priorities with more appeal and staying power. Plus, NASCAR has a ton of money!

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Auto racing is consider respectable through out the world. Nascar's international prestige is also growing. As it gains a global audience, it is considered as being among the suite of international auto-racing sports (indy, formula1, rally, and nascar).

I don't want Charlotte to only be known for Nascar, but the fact is that it is an historic sport in this area. The past gave Charlotte stock car racing and banks and a little bit of textiles and trucking. That is that.

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Consider me a noob around here. I'll apologize in advance if anything I say has already been touched on, I just don't have the time to read 41 other pages, but I thought I'd give my thoughts anyways.

NASCAR is something that is very important to the State of North Carolina as well as the Charlotte area. Its created its own industry that generates jobs for NC residents as well as money for the state through tourism. In my mind, there is only one true place that NASCAR HOF belongs and that is in Charlotte. I can see Daytona as a viable location, however Daytona already has Daytona USA @ Daytona International Speedway. Not quite a HOF, but its an attraction that NC does not offer. Kansas City?? That one just blows my mind. Kansas wasn't even added to the current Nextel Cup schedule until of recent years. Sure there might be fans of NASCAR in Kansas, but does NASCAR honestly think that people from all over the United States are going to flock to Kansas City for a HOF to a sport that isn't rooted in the state what-so-ever. All they boast is a cookie cutter track with one Nextel Cup date per year.

The Charlotte area offers much more than any of the other 2 locations could even attempt to put foward. Number one, its home to nearly every Nextel Cup team, Busch Series team, and Craftsmen Truck Series team that regularly competes on a weekly basis. A majority of these shops welcome fans to come and tour what they can of the facility. Some only offer just showrooms and museums, but they still bring in people by the droves. Race fans want to see that kind of stuff, trust me. For instance, last December I came down to Charlotte to see some friends and we went up to the DEI (Dale Earnhardt Inc.) shop just outside of Mooresville. It was maybe noon and the place was PACKED. Even two tour busses were there.

Number 2 reason. Charlotte offers 3 race weekends per year. The All-Star race and Coca-Cola 600 in May and UAW-GM 500 in October. These events are bringing in people not just from NC and SC, but all over the United States. I could be wrong with this, but I want to say that I read somewhere that the majority of fans at any of these race weekends are from somewhere over 4 or 5 hours from Charlotte, which is one reason why all the races are at night now. Now the hotels of the whole Charlotte area are able to cash in on race fans who are staying overnight rather than making a daytrip out of it. Economically very smart move. But think, if you've got a substantial number of tourists staying in the Charlotte area over a race weekend, they would without a doubt visit the HOF. Now I'm not saying that the survival of a HOF would soley be based of 3 weekends out of a year, but those would definitely play a very large role in the deciding factor.

Number 3 reason. Charlotte has events all throughout the year that draw people. Concerts, Panthers games, and Bobcats games to name a few. Even maybe a casual fan of NASCAR or someone who isn't even a fan of NASCAR might find it interesting to visit the HOF, if anything to pass time while they're in town. I assume the location would be somewhere Uptown, which makes logical senese. Someone could stay in Uptown Charlotte in a hotel and never leave that general vicinity during their whole stay. The HOF would add another attraction to Uptown that would generate more money for hotels, restaurants, bars, basically anything down there that people would use.

Number 4 reason. ROOTS ROOTS ROOTS. NASCAR's roots go very deep into rural North Carolina and South Carolina when the moonshiners use to run their product around. True, the 1st NASCAR sanctioned event was held in Daytona, but its roots of that race came from what was going on up here. NASCAR has been kind to our State for a while, until recently. Though NASCAR did not directly close North Carolina Speedway and North Wilkesboro Speedway, it did make a dramatic decrease in revenue for those two areas. I think maybe this would be NASCAR's way of putting North Carolina back to the forefront of the sport. After being robbed of 2 tracks and 4 races, I think its time NASCAR pays us back and gives us something to compensate for the losses. Granted it won't directly help North Wilkesboro and Hamlet/Rockingham, but it will indirectly.

I'm sure I could come up with plenty more reasons as to why it belongs in Charlotte and no where else, but I'll just leave it at that for now. Sorry for the rant.

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That's a lot of time spent writing about stock car racing at 3:30 AM., Redman. :thumbsup: Good points overall, but I'm still going to be bummed if it comes to Charlotte. I agree with some of the other posts that if it means Arts vs. NASCAR, I vote the Arts. I'm not worried about stereotypes etc., I just think that the Arts help build a better community.

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Nascar has a lot of respectability beyond the USA. Aside from my mention of Tokyo above, it is well regarded by many in Europe where auto racing has many fans. I work with numerous people in Europe and when they find out that I live in Charlotte, they usually ask about the races and teams here. (of those who are racing fans) And I can't count how many times that national and international visitors have come here to work with us that have treked to Mooresville to see the racing teams up there.

A new and improved Mint museum simply is not going to bring that kind of attention to the city. In fact, I don't see any museum anywhere on the drawing board that is going to get Charlotte much more than regional recognition and certainly nothing close to what the NASCAR HOF might bring to the area.

Can someone explain exacty what the "Arts" might be and how it might bring something to the city that would otherwise not come here if the HOF is built? How does a museum build a "community"? Why doesn't the HOF do the same since it is essentially a museum?

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Well, for roughly the same price as 1 NASCAR museum, the arts package would include an expanded Mint Museum, modern art museum, theatre, improved discovery place (which is the number 1 eductional destination in the state), and an AACC.

I personally would go the NASCAR museum once and then I'm not sure why I'd ever need to go again. The other museums tend to have special exhibits that tour around the country/world(The Dead Sea Scrolls are coming next year), so there is always a reason to visit these museums and theatre year after year.

As a few other people have said, I could care less if lots of tourists come to Charlotte other than the taxes they generate....I much prefer a city that has more amenities for myself and my family that we will use multiple times. Places like Orlando, Las Vegas, Myrtle Beach, while successful, are not the places that I would chose to live.

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I'm not sure why Arts and the Nascar HOF are being considered an either-or scenario. Nascar is important for sportsminded tourism, the masses, and the arts are important for executive employment retention.

The fine arts (symphony music, orchestral music, theater productions, dance/ballet, paintings, sculpture, etc.) are important for attracting and retaining corporations. Executive-level employees value the arts, and a city without a healthy arts community often does not appeal to executives. If the city does not appeal to executives, then it is less likely that we will gain company and employee relocations. If the Fortune 500 companies in Charlotte cannot attract talent to move here, then they will need to move their headquarter operations to a larger city.

Arts, education, museums, and libraries have always required patronage. They have been funded either from the public sector, corporations, and/or the wealthy. Not investing in those amenities creates a reputation the city is unrefined and classless.

That said, the arts plan has nothing to do with nascar. It is not zero-sum. We need and should get both.

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Well, for roughly the same price as 1 NASCAR museum, the arts package would include an expanded Mint Museum, modern art museum, theatre, improved discovery place (which is the number 1 eductional destination in the state), and an AACC.

I personally would go the NASCAR museum once and then I'm not sure why I'd ever need to go again. The other museums tend to have special exhibits that tour around the country/world(The Dead Sea Scrolls are coming next year), so there is always a reason to visit these museums and theatre year after year.

As a few other people have said, I could care less if lots of tourists come to Charlotte other than the taxes they generate....I much prefer a city that has more amenities for myself and my family that we will use multiple times. Places like Orlando, Las Vegas, Myrtle Beach, while successful, are not the places that I would chose to live.

Using that argument, one could say the Bobcats Arena, was certainly not worth the $265M it cost since we already had an arena, and the NBA appeals to only a very small segment of the community.

Not you specifically atlrvr, but generally I get the feeling the people are against the HOF simply because they associate it with being redneck because the arguments against it don't really seem to pan out.

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I think it's an either/or because I don't see the state approving the car-rental tax, and with all other possible revenue going to NASCAR, the arts will once again lose out......and unlike what was implied earlier in the thread, the arts have been waiting in line longer than any group.

And I tend to agree with the logic about the arena, had the NBA been willing to give us an old team with the old arena. The fact was, that arena was going to cost us a fortune to maintain because the NBA would never give us another team if we planned to use it. The new arena will now have more non-NBA events than NBA events per year, so like the arts, it has multiple attractions, that will be used by many people multiple times.....

I guess what I'm saying is that I value residents having a variety of amenities first, business attraction/retention secondly, and tourism a distant third.

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