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cityboi

NASCAR Hall of Fame

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Yeah....its nice to spend family money.....although he apparantly put in a good effort to buy enough people off to get the protest petition dropped against him for his business park on Monroe Rd....

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....

We all rail against the outside world's perceptions of us; how we hate being viewed as bumpkins and rednecks.  But yet people insist that this Hall of Fame will be good for the world view of Charlotte.  How's that?     

monsoon, the $350 million arena will be for far more than NBA basketball.  I plan to see concerts, college basketball, hockey, etc there.  It's already generating millions in additonal tax revenue for land around it (ULI just finished a study for the two "pork chop" sized parcels on the north side of the arena that are to include two 25-story condo towers and two 3-000 space parking garages).  It will be used nearly every week of the year pulling thousands of additonal people to uptown Charlotte during after-work hours.  I'll take that over two weeks a year in Concord anyday.  How often does that big oval get used the rest of the year, anyway?  Taxes to pay for it are coming from hotle/motel/rental car.  My Charlotte-Mecklenburg taxes didn't pay for a dime of it.  And by the way, my ticket to Nextel was $90.  An NBA game is around $40.

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The land you speak of would have done this regardless of the arena. If anything the arena will take away from the value of this land as it has been demonstrated time and time again that arenas represent a negative in downtown development. Both in terms of lost opportunities for something else, and second, because no one really wants to live by the damn things. Everytime a city builds one "their's is gonna be better" but that is never the case and I suspect the same for the Bobcats Arena.

Likewise, the arena will not be used every week of the year otherwise you would see the same activity in the current coliseum and cricket arena. And it will never generate back the taxes that it cost the city to build it. I stand by what I said concerning the huge outlay of public money and the NBA. It was nothing but a huge give away to the millionares and billionares that are involved with that "sport". And the NBA is in decline because the average person no longer identifies with it.

Personally I don't care if some parts of the country look down on NASCAR and Charlotte in general if we support the sport. That is really their problem and not ours. No one can deny that Charlotte is doing well and being associated with NASCAR is a good thing. It adds distictiveness to the city that we would not otherwise have. I will not live my life defined by how snobs might look down on me and I would hope the leaders of this city do the same.

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except that isn't him that is a billionaire.....that's Leon, not Daniel....relatives though.

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Putting the museum near the multi-modal station would be an excellent idea (who ever said that). But Moresville needs to step up the plate and get in line with CATS first.

In terms of museum design, I think they need to be really creative like putting a giant RV dealership on the roof with a ridiculously tall sign advertising themselves for interstate passersby. (just kidding of course)

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Personally I don't care if some parts of the country look down on NASCAR and Charlotte in general if we support the sport.  That is really their problem and not ours.  No one can deny that Charlotte is doing well and being associated with NASCAR is a good thing.  It adds distictiveness to the city that we would not otherwise have.  I will not live my life defined by how snobs might look down on me and I would hope the leaders of this city do the same.

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I live in Charlotte. Do you?

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The land you speak of would have done this regardless of the arena.  If anything the arena will take away from the value of this land as it has been demonstrated time and time again that arenas represent a negative in downtown development.  Both in terms of lost opportunities for something else, and second, because no one really wants to live by the damn things. 

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How do you account for Courtside selling out in two weeks?

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The jobs are great, it's the majority of the fans I could do without.  Call me a snob, but you can dress it up anyway you want.  You can tell me it's "reaching out to a whole new demographic".  That it's now a white collar sport.  I don't buy it. 

The vast majority of people who visit for races at Lowe's never leave their campsite.  They buy their groceries back home and bring them here.  They eat in the infield or at their tent.  They never see a restaurant.  They buy t-shirts from vendors who don't pay taxes.  The only ones who benefit are convienience store owners selling gasoline so these folks can drive back home and Bruton Smith who makes billions, but gives none of it back to his community. 

I grew up with NASCAR.  I worked at the Darlington International Raceway for four years in college.  I  spent countless days with my dad in the infield of "The Rock".  I know first hand what happens there (an episode of Hee Haw with beer, cigarettes, expletives and sex in campers).  I've even tried to give NASCAR another chance by going to Nextel with friends last year (who swore "it's different now").  I saw the same demographic I saw growing up.  A chicken bone fell on my head.  Unless you're in a skybox, it's the same sport.  For entertainment value, it was great.  Not to mention my self-esteem skyrocketing after attending the event. 

We all rail against the outside world's perceptions of us; how we hate being viewed as bumpkins and rednecks.  But yet people insist that this Hall of Fame will be good for the world view of Charlotte.  How's that?     

monsoon, the $350 million arena will be for far more than NBA basketball.  I plan to see concerts, college basketball, hockey, etc there.  It's already generating millions in additonal tax revenue for land around it (ULI just finished a study for the two "pork chop" sized parcels on the north side of the arena that are to include two 25-story condo towers and two 3-000 space parking garages).  It will be used nearly every week of the year pulling thousands of additonal people to uptown Charlotte during after-work hours.  I'll take that over two weeks a year in Concord anyday.  How often does that big oval get used the rest of the year, anyway?  Taxes to pay for it are coming from hotle/motel/rental car.  My Charlotte-Mecklenburg taxes didn't pay for a dime of it.  And by the way, my ticket to Nextel was $90.  An NBA game is around $40.

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You are wrong on so many levels here and monsoon hit the nail on the head. NASCAR is becoming more and more a white collar sport and beyond. And even if you don't classify it as progressively white collar, what's wrong with that? Are you trying to say that you or the white collar section of society are better than the "lower" classes? If you even consider saying yes to that question, you better think again because the world doesn't revolve around who has the most money or the best manners or upbringing.

To say that the ~150,000 people that attend each race only buy gasoline when they come to the races is incomprehensible. Maybe about 1/4 of the attendees actually camp there and it's a little hard to fit a week's worth of groceries in an RV refrigerator. They gotta restock somewhere. Well, not counting them, that leaves the other 100,000 people who have to eat, drink, and buy other supplies. You think they just drove from wherever they came from and didn't stop anywhere to eat. They ate a big breakfast at home, drove however long and went to the race, and then drove home. RIGHT. They stopped somewhere in the Charlotte area, ate a meal or picked up supplies to cook out at the track.

As for the "hee-haw" version of NASCAR, yes, there are sections that are a little wilder, but I have yet to sit in one of them. I guess I must have been lucky to not be exposed to those "little" people huh? Oh yeah, tickets for the Coca-Cola 600 start at $49, $33 for the Nextel All-Star Challenge, and $19 for the UAW-GM 500. Seems to me that those prices beat the Bobcats according to your figures.

Now, onto the arena. Altogether, building the arena and paying off the debt on loans and the corporate underwriting deal needed to finance the building will come to $430 million over 30 years, according to the city's finance department. According to the contract between the city and the Bobcats, the Bobcats will pay $250,000 to the city each year for using the arena. The amount will increase by 5% each year, not to exceed $500,000. The Bobcats get all revenues for "Back of House Services, Food and Beverage Services and the Authority Office Space, the following rights, and the revenues and rights to revenues arising from the exercise, control, license, sublicense, sale, operation or exercise of such rights: (i) Admission Tickets and Ticket Operations rights; (ii) Advertising Rights; (iii) Broadcast Rights; (iv) Concession Rights; (v) Naming Rights; (vi) Retail Rights (but excluding Street Level Activity or Retail); (vii) Seat Rights; (viii) Telecommunications Rights; (ix) Use Agreements..."

Now, I wasn't a math major, but I do believe that the city would lose money on this deal. $250,000 x 4 years = 1 millon dollars. The city will pay $430 million for the arena. So, even if we started out with the $500,000 per year, it would take 860 years for the city to make a profit on the arena. I don't think that taxes on the surrounding properties would even touch that figure.

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You are wrong on so many levels here and monsoon hit the nail on the head.  NASCAR is becoming more and more a white collar sport and beyond. And even if you don't classify it as progressively white collar, what's wrong with that? Are you trying to say that you or the white collar section of society are better than the "lower" classes?  If you even consider saying yes to that question, you better think again because the world doesn't revolve around who has the most money or the best manners or upbringing.

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I'm from a redneck home. My dad even brought cases of VI-Ena (not Vienna) sausages on our twice yearly pilgrimages to the infield in Rockingham growing up.

Yes, from experience, I am saying there are things about NASCAR I don't care to have associated with my adopted hometown. I get just as angry as you have gotten at me when people from out of town make comments about "the Big Oval" and how we all must be like the stereotype. And sorry, I didn't care to see the tattoo of Dale Earnhardt on the left breast of the 70 year old woman next to me at Nextel. Manners are classless. Doesn't matter where you're from or what your socioeconomic background is.

I realize I sound a bit superior, but I'm ready for Charlotte to break beyond things like that. My point of the entire arguement is that Discovery Place, Bechtler and the Mint should get funding WAY before the HOF. They are three instututions that actually educate people about the world, the way it works, and the way we live in it.

And I'll defend the arena till the cows come home. I think it may be the best thing to happen to Uptown in decades. My next door neighbor works at the Coliseum. You have no idea the amount of functions that go on DAILY there. I certainly didn't unitil I met her. Do I like the deal Bob Johnson was given? No. But I like what it brings to the city and I will benefit from it.

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Bringing in the NASCAR HOF will help to accomplish all the art projects. I've you have such a passion for getting things like that done, why don't you put your money into it? I hate to tell you, but those aren't major attractions. A NASCAR HOF would bring a ton of money into the city. It may cost the taxpayers a little, but it will pay off from the economic stimulus provided by it.

If you don't want to seem like a snob... don't act like one.

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I've not been to Cooperstown, but I can say with certainty, that neither Springfield or Canton have been enriched as a city with a sports HOF. In fact they are "holes".......again, I don't doubt that this will add hotel nights to the city, and add restaurant patronage, but I certainly don't believe it will be the tourist panacea for the city. While it's nice to have tourists, it's much more important to have a higher quality of life for the people who live here. Even those who live here and love NASCAR will likely only visit the HOF a couple of times ever. Conversely, museums with renowned displays, rotating special exhibits and such are much more likely to be used over and over by locals. This is what attracts jobs and corporate relocations. TIAA-CREF moved here from NY, and listed Charlotte's addition of cultural ammenties and pro-sports as reasons to relocate. I'm more interested in creating a livable city that caters to its residents as well as tourists, than a Myrtle Beach, Orlando, or Las Vegas style city where people come, spend, then leave and tell their friends that "Charlotte was great to visit, but I'd never want to live there".

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I've not been to Cooperstown, but I can say with certainty, that neither Springfield or Canton have been enriched as a city with a sports HOF.  In fact they are "holes".......again, I don't doubt that this will add hotel nights to the city, and add restaurant patronage, but I certainly don't believe it will be the tourist panacea for the city.  While it's nice to have tourists, it's much more important to have a higher quality of life for the people who live here.  Even those who live here and love NASCAR will likely only visit the HOF a couple of times ever.  Conversely, museums with renowned displays, rotating special exhibits and such are much more likely to be used over and over by locals.  This is what attracts jobs and corporate relocations.  TIAA-CREF moved here from NY, and listed Charlotte's addition of cultural ammenties and pro-sports as reasons to relocate.  I'm more interested in creating a livable city that caters to its residents as well as tourists, than a Myrtle Beach, Orlando, or Las Vegas style city where people come, spend, then leave and tell their friends that "Charlotte was great to visit, but I'd never want to live there".

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Everyone says Charlotte is a great place to live, but they don't want to visit. You need something that 1) establishes Charlotte in a person's mind and 2) convinces them to go there at least once so they know where it is and what it is like. Otherwise, businesses and people won't know to come here at all, they'll keep confusing us with Charlottesville or Charleston.

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If you don't want to seem like a snob... don't act like one.

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Methinks I've angered the NASCAR gods.

I'll say it again. The museums add quaility of life to the city. When I go to Paris, I don't go there to see EuroDisney, I go to see the Louvre, the Musee d'Orsay, the Pompidou. Go ahead and build the damn thing, just don't put the cultural pieces on the back burner just to get the Hall of Fame. My love of nature and the physical world around me came from one visit to Discovery Place in 1981. I LEARNED something there and took those back to school with me. They are with me today.

I've you have such a passion for getting things like that done, why don't you put your money into it?

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I have been voluntarily contributing to these since I moved to Charlotte in 1986. I volunteered and worked for Ramses the Great at the Mint, I give money annually to support the ASC, I give to the United Way (and I'm not forced by my employer to do so), I give time and money to the Carolina Raptor Center, and I am actively involved in my community. I put my money and time (what little there is) where my mouth is.

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Well to be fair, Paris doesn't have a NBA Arena either. I would put something like that in the Eurodisney category, as well. I won't remind you the building of the arena put a lot of plans for the arts and museums on hold in Charlotte simply because the city does not have money for them now.

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I'll say it again. The museums add quaility of life to the city. When I go to Paris, I don't go there to see EuroDisney, I go to see the Louvre, the Musee d'Orsay, the Pompidou. Go ahead and build the damn thing, just don't put the cultural pieces on the back burner just to get the Hall of Fame. My love of nature and the physical world around me came from one visit to Discovery Place in 1981. I LEARNED something there and took those back to school with me. They are with me today.

A museum is going to cater to a much smaller % of people though. Yes they are great for their educational purposes, but for the most part will only be a big attraction to the "higher classes". Your average Joe is not going to stop there more than once. You guys complain about Charlotte not preserving its history, like tearing down old buildings.....well, like it or not, NASCAR is a big part of our history. The HOF being in Charlotte is a way of showing it.

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The perfect location, in my opinion, is somewhere on Levine's property along the North Tryon area. This would put it centrally within walking distance of the convention center, hotels, the Epicentre, the arena, other museums and the majority of pedistrian activity in Charlotte.

I just got back from Cleveland. It's amazing the things the Rock and Roll hall of fame have done for that city, but they made a mistake by building it in an area that's isolated from the rest of downtown. Due to the huge barrier of highways and open space that separates downtown from the lake, you feel as if you should drive to downtown from the HOF.

If Charlotte gets the NASCAR HOF it would be a HUGE boost to the city. We need to take advantage of it by placing in a location that builds on the critical mass we're already building.

NASCAR is not chicken bones. Anyone who dismisses it as such hasn't been paying attention, or is someone who sterotypes people due to their own limited experiences.

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how about building the hof in concord near lms?

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While that would make a lot of sense in some ways, in others it would allow the separate tourist zone that already exists in the area (concord mills, nascar speed park, lowes motor speedway, most of the racing shops) to only grow bigger and pull more people away from the core.

Ask Orlando how that works.

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There's no mention of Charlotte in the article. Think they're downplaying our effort or just don't want to admit us as a threat?

Where exactly is our funding coming from by the way. I know Hendricks and Sabates said they were going to lead the effort to get it here, but who exactly is going to pay for it?

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Where exactly is our funding coming from by the way. I know Hendricks and Sabates said they were going to lead the effort to get it here, but who exactly is going to pay for it?

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The funding is going to be a mix of public & private money. It is still undetermined who will pay how much. There has also been discussions about raising local car rental, restaurant, and hotel-motel taxes.

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