NASCAR Hall of Fame

[crispin]

They made that list in part because they are tightwads.

Bill Gates gave away more money than anyone else in America last year, and he still got richer. It may take penny-pinching to become a billionaire, but once you're there, it's just momentum -- even if you start giving it away by the boatload.

[Neo]

The billionaire list was released by Forbes and there are 2 from the Charlotte region. Could we please have one of them step up to the plate and donate 250 million dollars like the guy from Home Depot in Atlanta and build us something like their aquarium. Discovery Place is nice if your 4 years old, but it desperately needs to be updated or replaced by something more world-class. A guy can dream, right?

If I ever have the money I promise to contribute to a downtown aquarium in Charlotte. Not saying that will ever happen, but if it does you can haunt me later should I not keep my word.

[Sabaidee]

Shoot, I'm more for a Uptown zoo than an aquarium. Hmm, but where would we put a zoo?

[DigitalSky]

A high rise zoo, that would be SWEET!

[monsoon]

A high rise zoo, that would be SWEET!

Well,..... probably not for the animals.

[dubone]

Well, maybe the urbanist animals.

[Charlotteman]

Aw c'mon folks---everyone on the thread has been bemoaning the Charlotte vs. Atlanta nonsense. So why would we want an aquarium Uptown....er....doesn't Atlanta have one in the center city? heehee

Baltimore had the first world class aquarium/tourist attraction in the States. Atlanta's aquarium is nothing but a knockoff on Baltimore's idea. Do we wanna be a knockoff of a knockoff?

NASCAR is indegenous. NOT CONTRIVED. An aquarium would be obviously contrived.

Another tourist attraction is needed Uptown along with the HOF museum and the other museums planned at Wachovia's project. Personally I've always thought capturing the South's love affair with the shopping mall in Uptown Charlotte might end up being a cash cow!

A mall so damn impressive with international retailers generally not found at Southpark, in an atmosphere of splendour that will draw people in near and far--- like the Mall of the Americas. Mall of the Americas is not in an urban setting--making Charlotte's quite different.

We must stay away from contrived things, yes? Shopping til ya drop is indegenous to the area, a copy cat aquarium isn't:)

[krazeeboi]

Good point about the aquarium. Plenty of cities had successful aquariums before Atlanta did (e.g., Charleston, Chattanooga), but now that Atlanta gets one, all of a sudden everybody else wants one. Stop the madness.

And I understand your point about SouthPark, but I wouldn't exactly call it an "urban" mall.

[Lady Celeste]

Aw c'mon folks---everyone on the thread has been bemoaning the Charlotte vs. Atlanta nonsense. So why would we want an aquarium Uptown....er....doesn't Atlanta have one in the center city? heehee

Baltimore had the first world class aquarium/tourist attraction in the States. Atlanta's aquarium is nothing but a knockoff on Baltimore's idea. Do we wanna be a knockoff of a knockoff?

So let me fully understand what you are saying.

Baltimore had the first world class aquarium in the United States? You would rank the Baltimore aquarium above the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago? The Shedd being established in 1929 far precedes the Baltimore Aquarium. So technically Baltimore is a knockoff in and of itself....if there is such a thing. Because one city had one first, others should not as well. Surely the Greeks did not forego a national library because the Egyptians did it first. If your thought process holds true then the Smithsonian in Washington is a knockoff...and for that matter the Louvre in Paris is a knockoff.

NASCAR is indegenous. NOT CONTRIVED. An aquarium would be obviously contrived.

The only part of this I will dispute is an aquarium being contrived.

Another tourist attraction is needed Uptown along with the HOF museum and the other museums planned at Wachovia's project. Personally I've always thought capturing the South's love affair with the shopping mall in Uptown Charlotte might end up being a cash cow!

A mall so damn impressive with international retailers generally not found at Southpark, in an atmosphere of splendour that will draw people in near and far--- like the Mall of the Americas. Mall of the Americas is not in an urban setting--making Charlotte's quite different.

We must stay away from contrived things, yes? Shopping til ya drop is indegenous to the area, a copy cat aquarium isn't:)

So let me understand what you are saying here....

Shopping till ya drop is "indegenous" to Charlotte? Shopping is an event started in the south therefore it's okay to have another shopping venue...one to be added to the many other premier shopping establishments throughout the south? Aquarium is bad....premier shopping mall is good? Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh kay.

[dubone]

I think any city that can build one of the best of something in its class, then that city should build it. The Nascar Hall will very likely be the best in its class. You guys must clearly recognize that Atlanta has built one of the best aquariums in the world (whale sharks in a tank!).

It is true that it is better to build something that is applicable to a city's unique culture or history, etc. But there is a long history of great cities in the world using their resources to bring exotic reality to that city for its residents and tourists to see.

[Charlotteman]

What I meant was that Baltimore's waterfront aquarium was the first internationally famous aquarium-as- tourist-attraction. If Chicago's aquarium was/is a tourist attraction of that magnitude, then I stand corrected:)

But it's still a fact that many cities either have an aquarium, or have plans for one~~~

My idea of a shopping experience is for Uptown, not the suburbs. A mall of the magnitude of Mall of the Americas.

What are ya talking about--of course Charlotte is a shop til ya drop city!!! Bring world class shopping Uptown. Not just Belks, but go for the gusto.

You speak of shopping as though it's bad (??)

Aquariums are no longer cutting edge. Let's think of something more unique:)

[Charlotteman]

oh by the way, I didn't mean to imply shopping was particularly unique to Charlotte:) heehee

But a center city mall of splendour on the scale of Southpark or larger, with much higher end retailers/restauranteurs, WOULD be unique. The Mall of the Americas, Phipps Plaza, Lenox Square are not in the central cities. Mall of the Americas is in an exurban location.

You don't want all the thousands of new uptown residents to have to get in the car, and drive to Southpark do ya?

[teshadoh]

charlotteman - Charlotte already tried a 'downtown mall' before, like a lot of cities did in the 70's. It isn't there anymore so hope that answers your question how well it did. If you wanted a retail district - make sure all those skyscapers in the city have street level retail. That has been Atlanta's biggest mistake, we have plenty of skyscrapers but nothing goes on in front of them b/c the only entrance are lobbies.

I've complained about the aquarium, mostly because I felt the gift from Bernie Marcus was for his ego. But since visiting the aquarium, I'm pretty happy to have it - even though I still hate the design & it's parking deck. But as Celeste noted - aquariums have been in cities in the past, just as zoos have too (if you ask what whale sharks have to do with Atlanta, then what do panda bears have to do with Atlanta too?). "Hall of fames" are also not new - baseball, rock music, football & now NASCAR - this isn't a 'brand new' concept.

Again - congragulations on winning it.

[krazeeboi]

charlotteman - Charlotte already tried a 'downtown mall' before, like a lot of cities did in the 70's.

A little off topic, but didn't Rock Hill put a giant awning over Main Street to simulate an indoor mall back in the 70's/80's?

[cosmopolite]

I think that getting the hall of fame here in charlotte will bring more cultural attractions to the city.

[dubone]

Awnings, aquariums, museums, zoos, symphonies, space needles, research campuses... every city that wants to grow or revitalize does things to try to attract people. I don't think there is any wrong with any of them. Some are cheesier than others, and some don't work at all. In my view, though, if you are able to attract a large number of visitors, it is because it either is of high quality, is unique, or it meets people's interests or needs.

Right now, it seems Charlotte has been focusing on the basic infrastructure for attracting visitors, sports venues, convention space, entertainment retail, libraries, theaters and small museums. The Nascar Hall of Fame is our attempt at creating something grand and unique that meets the interests of the potential visitors now.

My hopes are that we will continue to work on the retail, the small museums, and theaters to get the basic visitor infrastructure established.

Maybe in ten years, when we have a solid range of basic attractions and a single large attraction, we might then want to pursue some other attraction. But the bottom line is that tourism provides a major economic stimulus without nearly the same costs to government. That is why most cities pursue all manner of attractions, especially if they don't have the intrinsic attraction of geography or history.

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

Charlotteman, The Shedd is the oldest aquarium in the world. Until recently, it was the biggest in the U.S. and a huge tourist attraction.

Sometimes I think we're all a little too young to understand how cities in the U.S. have evolved. From what I've been told, NYC is totally different today from what it was 30 years ago. I'm 32 and don't really know the city from those days. All I have are anecdotes and films (Taxi Driver!) to give me a sense of what it was like. Sometimes we see a place like NYC and think our city should be more like that. Yet we haven't any real idea what it took to get there. The people who turned parking lots into homes. Or the ones who built a neighborhood cafe out of a former dry cleaning establishment. Our best cities were not built by its attractions or skyscrapers, but by the people who made their lives there. I wonder sometimes if building the attractions, the malls, the many many high rise condos are the best use of our energy. I don't want the HOF here. I want a city in the south with walkable streets, vibrant and diverse neighborhoods. I've tried to be okay with the HOF, but I can't.

[Charlotteman]

Do we all agree that we would like to see another major Uptown attraction, besides the HOF?

oops! I meant to say in addition to the HOF:)

[redjeep77]

The shedd is amazing. Not only is it a great aquarium, but the architecture of the building is truly awe-inspiring. It has that attention to detail that most modern buildings do not. I love the new atlanta aquarium, but in my mind, the best is still in chicago.

PS: even the layout of the building is cool. It's like a giant octopus with tentacles that converge on a large central "reef tank". Add that together with the natural history museum, and you have an entire day of educational fun!

[teshadoh]

A little off topic, but didn't Rock Hill put a giant awning over Main Street to simulate an indoor mall back in the 70's/80's?

I used to spend a lot of time goofing off at the Towncenter Mall - especially between time where I worked across the street at the library in the 80's. There was a record store in the middle of the mall in a semi-kiosk that I used to buy records. Earlier in the 80's there was a Belks & a Woolworths which were the major stores to shop. Of course the bar (Thursdays Too?) was there which also had some good sandwiches & had a talent show where my friend played in the band - Wild Knights! (yeah, we were rednecks). The only other thing I remember was that one side of the mall was SCNB building where my dad worked at a company called Computer Systems.

The city manager Joe Landford who was a long time manager for RH from the 70's through the 80's won a lot of accolades for the 'progressiveness' of the idea, which was one of the first downtown malls in the early 70's. But after it siphoned off a lot of funds & tenants left (which would have left anyways) he finally got kicked out of town.

Ok - this was a long rant, but I sometimes like to recall my memories

[monsoon]

Indeed. The downtown Rock Hill mall was eventually torn down as a failure of urban planning.

[Rickydavisfan21]

posted this in the wrong forum accidentally

Two things...

1. Is the front of the nascar hall of fame off the ground in a few places, it looks like you can walk under it in the front on the left side of the building.

2. Is there an exhibit map yet or anything out. I wanna see the floor plan of this thing so I can get a better idea of it...

rd21

[stateman99]

Didn't know for sure where to post this. Usually I post it in the wrong place and then someone posts it somewhere else and mine gets removed. Read it or move it if you want. It is an article about Nascar HOF changing second ward.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/14085431.htm

[Rickydavisfan21]

how is it similar in size to IJL??? a 16 story tower vs a 30 story tower, am I missing something, and anyone know the answers to my questions yet?

[Neo]

Good point about the aquarium. Plenty of cities had successful aquariums before Atlanta did (e.g., Charleston, Chattanooga), but now that Atlanta gets one, all of a sudden everybody else wants one. Stop the madness.

Actually, I and a lot of other folks wanted an aqarium long before Atlanta received one. What makes wanting an acqarium different than wanting a nice park downtown or condos? Just because you want something downtown doesn't mean that it's because another city got one and now you feel left out. I want an acqarium so that I can take my family every once in a while, not so that I can show one up to Atlanta or any other city. I'm not a big fan of Charleston's aquarium BTW. It really just wasn't that impressive IMO. The closest acquarium of any type that I'm aware of (besides the couple of fishtanks that are at Discovery Place) are in Myrtle Beach. Charleston would be the next closest and then Atlanta's. Myrtle Beach is a good 3.5 hours away. A distance that no family is going to be willing to drive just to go to the acquarium. Put one in Charlotte and feed the local families who want an acquarium rather than sending them to another state.