NASCAR Hall of Fame

[crispin]

You have made the mistake of assuming that all of the Charlotte gold was converted to coins which is not true.

Here are some better numbers: Total gold production in North Carolina from 1799 to 1960 is estimated at 1,168,000 ounces. The vast majority was produced under the gold standard, which set a value of about $20/ounce, for a total value of about $23 million, unadjusted for inflation.

Production between 1829 and 1855, the boom years, was about 393,119 ounces, or about $8 million -- which suggests that most local gold was sold to the mint, which produced about $5 million in gold coins during that period. That's the purpose of a mint, after all, to monetize metals.

That volume wouldn't have funded a very large part of the U.S. budget, and production was beginning to dry up by the time the Confederacy came to power. It's true the CSA didn't mint many coins, but I had always understood that the reason was that they didn't have much bullion.

I'd be grateful if you'd point me in the direction of sources to the contrary, as this is not an area of expertise for me, and I'd certainly be interested to read more about it.

[atlrvr]

This may seem like an ignorant question, but what is the likelihood that there is still not considerable gold left in Charlotte?

Obviously greater volumes of purer gold were found in California and Alaska. Was this the primary reason that mining ceased here? Did prospectors feel the west was a better bet, or was there some sort of geology reasoning that ended the mining here?

What I really want to know is if a backhoe would be a wise investment?

[crispin]

This may seem like an ignorant question, but what is the likelihood that there is still not considerable gold left in Charlotte?

Obviously greater volumes of purer gold were found in California and Alaska. Was this the primary reason that mining ceased here? Did prospectors feel the west was a better bet, or was there some sort of geology reasoning that ended the mining here?

What I really want to know is if a backhoe would be a wise investment?

From what I've read, the issue is geology -- specifically, the purity of the deposits. You need to mine a lot of dross around here to get a little gold. Mining actually resumed on a small scale several times after the initial boom, whenever justified by desperation or the price of gold (the depression is the outstanding example).

But yeah, there's apparently still a lot of gold in these hills. It's just not worth the trouble to get it out.

As for the backhoe...

[Seabreeze]

can we start a thread called "Charlotte Gold"? or somethin... I keep thinking something is going on with the hall of fame...

[monsoon]

Here are some better numbers: Total gold production in North Carolina from 1799 to 1960 is estimated at 1,168,000 ounces. The vast majority was produced under the gold standard, which set a value of about $20/ounce, for a total value of about $23 million, unadjusted for inflation.

Production between 1829 and 1855, the boom years, was about 393,119 ounces, or about $8 million -- which suggests that most local gold was sold to the mint, which produced about $5 million in gold coins during that period. That's the purpose of a mint, after all, to monetize metals.

That volume wouldn't have funded a very large part of the U.S. budget, and production was beginning to dry up by the time the Confederacy came to power. It's true the CSA didn't mint many coins, but I had always understood that the reason was that they didn't have much bullion.

I'd be grateful if you'd point me in the direction of sources to the contrary, as this is not an area of expertise for me, and I'd certainly be interested to read more about it.

You are again making the mistake of confusing coinage, and its arbitrary value, to its importance on trade with Europe. Europe of course did not concern itself with US gold standards, especially in the early part of the 19th century, nor the value that we stamped on its face. And the USA did not adopt the international gold standard until 1900 or so, well past Charlotte's gold rush days. So the point you are making about the worth of Charlotte's gold to the financing of the USA's early expansion is irrelevant because the amount of gold present in a $1 gold coin would purchase far more than that as gold.

If you are saying that 400,000 ounces of gold would not have financed much in the early 19th century you are wrong in a similar fashion to referring to Charlotte's mines as a few holes in the ground.

[teshadoh]

This is one of the reasons why gold mining is not around here anymore - no one would support any more of these (this is in Lancaster County):

http://www.goldmaps.com/east/south_carolina_gold_mines.htm

There are gold deposits all along the Foothills - from Pennsylvania through Georgia (another well known gold rush between the Carolina & Western ones).

[crispin]

You are again making the mistake of confusing coinage, and its arbitrary value, to its importance on trade with Europe. Europe of course did not concern itself with US gold standards, especially in the early part of the 19th century, nor the value that we stamped on its face. And the USA did not adopt the international gold standard until 1900 or so, well past Charlotte's gold rush days. So the point you are making about the worth of Charlotte's gold to the financing of the USA's early expansion is irrelevant because the amount of gold present in a $1 gold coin would purchase far more than that as gold.

If you are saying that 400,000 ounces of gold would not have financed much in the early 19th century you are wrong in a similar fashion to referring to Charlotte's mines as a few holes in the ground.

Yeah, you know, I've been precise and factual and I just don't see you presenting any evidence to support the idea that Charlotte gold funded either the U.S. or the Confederacy, notions which are frankly silly.

First, 400,000 ounces of gold is a very small amount of gold. By contrast, from 1848 to 1859, total gold production in California was 28.4 million troy ounces -- or about $568 million in unadjusted currency. That is a serious amount of money that almost equals total federal expenditures during that period.

Second, you misunderstand the nature of a gold standard, which is a governmental promise to redeem paper money for a fixed weight in gold. That promise has no relevance to the value of coins. The value of coins are fixed in terms of their metallic content. A gold coin contained an amount of gold equal to its face value, less a slight percentage to ensure the coin was more valuable than the material.

The U.S. valued one troy ounce of gold at $20.67. Accordingly, the weight of a $1 gold coin was slightly less than 1/20th of a troy ounce (.0483 troy ounces) in the antebellum period. During the same period, an English Sovereign contained 0.2354 troy ounces of gold. That's a conversion rate of 4.86 U.S. coins to 1 U.K. coin. And that was exactly the exchange rate between the sovereign and the dollar.

[monsoon]

Yeah, you know, I've been precise and factual and I just don't see you presenting any evidence to support the idea that Charlotte gold funded either the U.S. or the Confederacy, notions which are frankly silly.

Precise and Factual? Well actually you started this discussion by stating that Charlotte's gold rush wasn't prolonged or significant and the mines here amounted to little more than holes in the ground.

When proven wrong on that matter, you have perused websites for the last few days to dig yourself out of that hole so to speak. You have offered no proof of anything that you have said except for things that you have found on various websites. Your mistakes of assuming all gold from the mines were converted to coins, add little to prove that you are precise and factual. You can discount Charlotte's importance in gold production in this country, discount the millions of oz, of gold that was mined, here, and generally ignore the importance of Charlotte/Mecklenburg as the center of gold production during the nation's infancy. However that doesn't mean any of it happened.

You may call me names if you like, but since you are being frank I will add that you have not added much to this discussion. (except that you know how to search websites) And if you think the Confederates simply ignored the gold in Charlotte, well then, I don't think you applied the word "silly" to the right person.

[crispin]

Precise and Factual? Well actually you started this discussion by stating that Charlotte's gold rush wasn't prolonged or significant and the mines here amounted to little more than holes in the ground.

When proven wrong on that matter, you have perused websites for the last few days to dig yourself out of that hole so to speak. You have offered no proof of anything that you have said except for things that you have found on various websites. Your mistakes of assuming all gold from the mines were converted to coins, add little to prove that you are precise and factual. You can discount Charlotte's importance in gold production in this country, discount the millions of oz, of gold that was mined, here, and generally ignore the importance of Charlotte/Mecklenburg as the center of gold production during the nation's infancy. However that doesn't mean any of it happened.

You may call me names if you like, but since you are being frank I will add that you have not added much to this discussion. (except that you know how to search websites) And if you think the Confederates simply ignored the gold in Charlotte, well then, I don't think you applied the word "silly" to the right person.

1. The all-time total production of gold mines in North Carolina is 1.1 million ounces, not "millions."

2. The value of that production never represented more than 0.5 percent of the federal budget.

3. The confederacy floated its money on cotton bonds, not gold bonds. It didn't have very much bullion.

4. The Charlotte "boom" lasted about two decades, and produced less than 1 percent of the California boom.

Which of those statements are you disputing?

...the metal was too valuable to use for currency....

And by the way, this statement betrays such a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of currency that I hardly know where to start.

And one more thing: I'm still waiting for a single shred of evidence that the confederacy used Charlotte gold. Something, anything, except another post that asserts it as fact and suggests I'm ignorant for disagreeing.

[monsoon]

As I said earlier you have offered no proof of anything that you have said. And you were flat wrong when you said that that Charlotte's gold production was not prolonged, important and the mines here were little more than holes in the ground. You were simply dismissing the idea that a museum based on this wasn't worth it because the gold rush here wasn't important. You were not speaking from a position of knowledge.

I am not going to debate the issue with you any further as pointless arguments on the value of the gold discoveries in Charlotte worth the the USA during it's infancy are a matter of opinion. And arguments over opinion waste people's time here. The fact's of the matter however were that you were wrong about the importance of the gold discoveries in Charlotte. And since you have resorted to name calling I am not going to continue on this discussion any further.

[cw52808]

I'm sorry, but how does this apply to NASCAR?

[monsoon]

I'm sorry, but how does this apply to NASCAR?

You are the 3rd person to ask that, and you are correct, it doesn't. It's an example of how tangents happen in thread.

I guess the big news today for the Nascar HOF is the county will vote tonight to either approve or turndown the hotel tax that will be used to pay for building it. If approved the HOF will open in 2010.

[50State]

You are the 3rd person to ask that, and you are correct, it doesn't. It's an example of how tangents happen in thread.

I guess the big news today for the Nascar HOF is the county will vote tonight to either approve or turndown the hotel tax that will be used to pay for building it. If approved the HOF will open in 2010.

From my point of view, you didn't add much to this discussion either because this thread is about the NASCAR Hall of Fame.

Also, in case anyone missed it, the Mecklenburg County Board of Commissioners approved an increase in the hotel room occupancy tax to fund the NASCAR Hall of Fame.

[dubone]

Are we sure about the 2010 date? The BelongsHere website says 2009. Somehow, I think they'll try to meet that sooner deadline in order to take in those extra revenues.

Here is the article on the county vote.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/new...al/14156245.htm

As revenues will start coming in this summer, my hunch is we'll see construction around that time.

[Seabreeze]

Are we sure about the 2010 date? The BelongsHere website says 2009. Somehow, I think they'll try to meet that sooner deadline in order to take in those extra revenues.

Here is the article on the county vote.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/new...al/14156245.htm

As revenues will start coming in this summer, my hunch is we'll see construction around that time.

How do the two peices of land that are currently on/off ramps come into play with the Nascar Hall of Fame. I know they needed the interchange with South Blvd. to be reworked to get the deal or something like that, but why?

[redjeep77]

they should just make I-277 into a race track that starts and finishes in the hall of fame hahahahaha. That would be awesome. Everybody truly would be about to get the NASCAR experience.

[Lady Celeste]

Slightly off topic.....I do apologize...

I read today that you can drive...or someone will drive you...around the Lowes MotorSpeedway up to speeds of 200 mph. Is that true? If it is, I'm going to book my time real soon.

[monsoon]

That was true once. I believe they have halted the practice due to insurance reasons.

[Lady Celeste]

That was true once. I believe they have halted the practice due to insurance reasons.

Oh well....that knocked a little wind out of my sail. I guess I have to stick to driving those speeds on 285.

I can't wait to visit the HOF....by then the Ritz will be complete. I love the Children's Museum as well. It will be fun.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

Slightly off topic.....I do apologize...

I read today that you can drive...or someone will drive you...around the Lowes MotorSpeedway up to speeds of 200 mph. Is that true? If it is, I'm going to book my time real soon. grin.png

It's called the Richard Petty Driving experience and you can do it at Lowes Motor Speedway. Visit the site below for more information:

http://www.1800bepetty.com/html/index_html.html

[monsoon]

Opps I stand corrected, but the prices do seem to be a bit high. LOL

[graydog]

It's called the Richard Petty Driving experience and you can do it at Lowes Motor Speedway. Visit the site below for more information:

http://www.1800bepetty.com/html/index_html.html

I did the 8 lap experience in 03 and it was worth every penny. The cars are designed to top out around 140 if you drive and about 180 if they drive for you. There's nothing like turning left at 140MPH.

[eastsider]

Seems that the Speed Street festival is getting so big that it will be expanding off Tryon and down Third St for several blocks.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/spo...ts/14207187.htm

[dubone]

I wonder why they chose Third Ward, and not Brevard. It seems like they'll do it on Brevard when the NHOF is built, so why not get it there now?

[peaceloveunderstanding]

One reason could be that there are lots of parking lots that the city owns in the third ward. Like for the Third Ward Park for instance.