Music City Center, 1.2 million sq. ft., $623 million

[FromParkAveToTN]

It wouldn't surprise me that when the CC is approved it will help Signature Tower get the additional hotel rooms mentioned the other day as well as more condos sold to out-of-town investors.

[producer2]

It will jump start a lot of new projects over the next 4 years and beyond

[nashvylle]

producer2 i agree, I feel like if ST breaks ground and CC is approved with a tall, 1,000 room CC hotel a lot of other projects will come as well as part of a snowball sort of effect. Do you know about the meeting this afternoon, did everything go well for us pro-convention people??

[smeagolsfree]

It seems as if even the Tennessean has changed their tune a bit. "Metro Can afford 595 million CC"

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...S0202/801180448

These guys kill me.

There seems to be support in the Metro Council for this project. The Tennessean actually took a jab at Purcell's refusal to get anything going as well.

For Nashwatcher: You were curious as to how the CC may have an effect on future growth of the 5th and Peabody area. Well I ran across this in the Nashville Scene this week and this is right around the corner from you. I hope more and more business discover the Rutledge Hill area.

http://www.nashvillescene.com/Stories/Colu...hborhood_Watch/

[producer2]

producer2 i agree, I feel like if ST breaks ground and CC is approved with a tall, 1,000 room CC hotel a lot of other projects will come as well as part of a snowball sort of effect. Do you know about the meeting this afternoon, did everything go well for us pro-convention people??

Let's just say the chambers were packed and the largest majority were pro-center. Big time players like Belz (Peabody Hotel) and other property investors as well as architects, etc. were in attendance. Also I think you will find that the Council will set this in motion by the end of February. At that time the RFP process will begin, etc. This part of the process is already funded so ther won't be any problem with who pays, etc. Let the fun begin......

[jcoop]

I can't wait to begin to see some renderings and the design process of this. It should be pretty exciting and I have faith that they will do it right.

As far as the CC headquarters hotel goes, anybody have any sort of idea about a timeline for when we would hear that location and company announced once the CC gets the final approval? Also, since it is projected to have such a long construction time, would the hotel construction be right on pace to open at the same time as the center, or possibly get done sooner? I guess I really dont have any idea how long to expect it to take to build a hotel of that size...

[producer2]

The anchor hotel needs to open at the same time or even slightly before the center. This is very important. I can tell you that there are already at least 3 major players who want to be in the mix to be that anchor tennant. It would be no surpise to anyone that Tower Investments and Belz (Peabody) are two of those players. I am confident they have already had conversations with the city. Now it comes down to negotiating the best deal for a public/private partnership to make this happen. Also on the table are potential parking garages that the city would like to partner with the private sector on. There will be discussions about liner buildings and what shape those will take, etc. Alot of action is going to happen over the next 24 months. The CVB is already foaming at the mouth to sell this project to clients, but they must wait until the final details are in.

[ATLBrain]

Producer, does it make any sense for Nashville to acquire "more land than they need" at an obviously greater initial cost in order to control the surrounding land? As such, they could lease that property in the form of parking structures and retail space for X years (20-30), thus maintaining some level of control over future expansion. For example, that property across 8th Avenue looks like it might be conducive to future expansion.

Edited January 18, 2008 by ATLBrain

[ATLBrain]

Also, did anyone who attended this meeting get any sense that the participants in the decision making are yet aware of the differences in the designs of convention centers? In other words, the exteriors of the Phila and DC centers are much more visually appealing than, say, the GWCC, NO and Dallas centers. Not surprisingly, much of the difference lies in the use of prestressed concrete vs. other materials that lend themselves to more detail and openness to the streets/surroundings. I think much of that has to do with their respective locations and the eras when they were built/expanded. My question may be a bit premature as concept drawings apparently have not yet been proffered.

[producer2]

Producer, does it make any sense for Nashville to acquire "more land than they need" at an obviously greater initial cost in order to control the surrounding land? As such, they could lease that property in the form of parking structures and retail space for X years (20-30), thus maintaining some level of control over future expansion. For example, that property across 8th Avenue looks like it might be conducive to future expansion.

IMO that is the plan they are talking about in private. As we all know discussion go on with the private sector about "partnerships" that we do not have full details about until they are almost complete. One way to ensure some expansion space would be to "hold the mortgage" so to speak on the proposed parking facilities. metro has a $40 milion dollar line item for that purpose. I do not think they would purchase additional land just for the sake of owning it for future expansion. To me that would hinder infill around the center. It was made clear that 100% of the land aquired for this project would be utilized in some fashion, no plans for green space, etc. with the exception of a green entrance into the facility.

Also, did anyone who attended this meeting get any sense that the participants in the decision making are yet aware of the differences in the designs of convention centers? In other words, the exteriors of the Phila and DC centers are much more visually appealing than, say, the GWCC, NO and Dallas centers. Not surprisingly, much of the difference lies in the use of prestressed concrete vs. other materials that lend themselves to more detail and openness to the streets/surroundings. I think much of that has to do with their respective locations and the eras when they were built/expanded. My question may be a bit premature as concept drawings apparently have not yet been proffered.

I am pretty confident that those including the Mayor who attended the trips to other facilities took notice as to the designs. Those who have more experience with construction I am sure noted the materials. I would expect (and this is just my opinion) the we will see a design that more reflects the number of new buildings in our downtown area like the Sommet Center, Suntrust, Encore, etc. and not so much the more classical look of the symphony hall and library. I know this will spark much debate but that is just how I see it. I believe glass will rule...

[nashwatcher]

thanks smeags! good to know...

For Nashwatcher: You were curious as to how the CC may have an effect on future growth of the 5th and Peabody area. Well I ran across this in the Nashville Scene this week and this is right around the corner from you. I hope more and more business discover the Rutledge Hill area.

http://www.nashvillescene.com/Stories/Colu...hborhood_Watch/

[MidTenn1]

What kind of footprint might be available for a 1,000 room hotel? I they have a whole city block, I would think a 25 to 30 story building might work. If it is tight, they would have to go tall (40 to 50 stories) I suppose. However, 50 story hotels are exceedingly rare in the US and the world.

With construction of what could be a possible 50 story, 600' tall hotel, it appears the height restrictions for SoBro are getting blown out of the water.

[ATLBrain]

I thought I had read on this board that the sites that have frontage on Gateway (or whatever the H$LL they're calling it these days) had a much taller height permission. I thought it was Michael Hayes who stated that... if not, then apologies, Michael. I'm pretty sure it someone on this board who is in development. Maybe they would have some input here as to how tall a 1000 key hotel is likely to be in that vicinity.

[smeagolsfree]

I thought I had read on this board that the sites that have frontage on Gateway (or whatever the H$LL they're calling it these days) had a much taller height permission. I thought it was Michael Hayes who stated that... if not, then apologies, Michael. I'm pretty sure it someone on this board who is in development. Maybe they would have some input here as to how tall a 1000 key hotel is likely to be in that vicinity.

You know I think the restrictions were lifted because of the Pinnacle building. They needed a variance, so they redid the entire Sobro area and I think you are correct about the Gateway Blvd. It may be unlimited in between Demonbreun and Gateway Blvd. as this is the next natural expansion of the CBD. The Pinnacle is going to be around 435'.

BTW, given the space behind the CMHoF, where a possible hotel would go. Would you care to speculate on the number of floors it will be? Just by memory, I think there is something like 3 acres maybe even less there. Some of that lot will be taken by the extension of Gateway Blvd. On a side note I dont think that the Gateway will be extended till close to the time of the new CC opening as they would just mess the street up with all of the construction anyway and it could be incorporated into part of the cost as well.

[ATLBrain]

Three acres behind the Hall of Fame? Really? It looks like much less than that, more like 1-1.5 acres.

I really have no clue, but I'll go through the exercise. Somewhere between 33 and 42 stories depending on how much of that 1-1.5 acre is used. Let's just say 50,000 sf for the sake of simplifying. How many rooms would you say are possible on half that footprint, 25-30 rooms per floor? So putting that towards 1000 rooms, you'd need something like 33-40 floors on top of the base which would have to accommodate some degree of lobby and parking, let's say 2-3 levels as it presumably wouldn't need a lot of floors for banquet rooms. So you'd have something like a 35-43 story building, somewhere between 400' and 500'. OK, so how'd i do? Or you could look at other cities that have built a CC hotel with 1000 rooms and see what shape that took. I just hope that Nashville does not hire Portman, Rabun or Swenssen to design it. Wonder if Hastings does hotels, or Tuck-Hinton towers. It really would be neat to see a cool, semi-circular modern tower with lots of glass rise 600' or so on that side of Nashville's downtown.

[ATLBrain]

Or even better... Pickard Chilton or HKS!

Ahhhh.... take a gander at this:

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=projec...lasvegas-nv-usa

Of course, it has more than 3000 rooms!

Edited January 19, 2008 by ATLBrain

[smeagolsfree]

Your estimate is about the same as several of us have concluded it would be. I am not sure about the amount of acres there but it is not a lot. So this hotel is going to have to be massive.

[ATLBrain]

This one sounds very similar to that proposed for Nashville...

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=jwmarr...polis-in-usa556

This one has residential (on top?). You know, the more I see of Indy, the more I think Nashville could learn from its example. Seems like a relatively nice city.

And also (a proposal for Indy), on the top end of my estimate, at 44 floors and aprox. 1000 rooms (no pic)...

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=conven...anapolis-in-usa

So it looks like I would award the design contrac to HKS, LOL. Now that's settled, you guys get going on this. OK?

Edited January 19, 2008 by ATLBrain

[Rural King]

^ Indianapolis is an extremely nice city IMO. Very modern and increasingly cosmopolitan in it's feel and character. I would think there are probably strong similarities between the economics, social trends, and the urban development patterns of both cities; thus making them good cities for comparison purposes.

[producer2]

Indy is the city most discussed and researched by MDHA for comparison purposes. The Mayor and his team visited the site and I hear plan on returning. Indy is one of Nashville closest competitors and currently are killing a lot of cities with the pace they are booking conventions. They have a great package, all walkable with good hotels, shopping and restaurants.

[smeagolsfree]

Here is the resolution that is to be voted on Tuesday by the Metro Council. Note that resolutions only have to be voted on once and this would be a binding resolution according to Producer2 as this was discussed at the meet yesterday.

http://www.nashville.gov/mc/resolutions/rs2008_143.html

Curt, I will let you share what needs to be shared from the meet yesterday as I know a few things that were discussed may not be accurate and should not be posted. Just a recap maybe.

[ShowProducer]

Can't wait to hear the result of the vote. I'll be waiting with baited breath! If it passes tomorrow, any estimate on the timeline to completion?

[samsonh]

ShowProducer,

I would say double whatever they say once it passes to be safe. I think you could see a late 2009 ground breaking and a new CC in late 2011 or 2012. There are always issues with projects this large and this will be no exception.

[producer2]

Budget passed unanimously yesterday and the vote today should sail through. I would expect infrastucture work to begin late spring early summer, final designs approved by November and a 1st quarter 09 groundbreaking. this thing is fast tracked and time is money. I foresee a Spring 2012 opening.

[ATLBrain]

Producer, your info sounds very experienced. Are you involved in the CC project? Or in possible development of adjacent/nearby parcels?