Music City Center, 1.2 million sq. ft., $623 million

[ATLBrain]

^^ So who are those lobbyists, and what property is it? I had heard that property around Lafayette and 8th was the second choice.

[Shuzilla]

The most important factor . . . location . . . location . . . location. Put it in the right place. Then design a facility that works best for the location. Horse belongs in front of the cart.

NES has estimated $30 million to move their substation. The coalition says the CC can be built around it. Wouldn't it be wise to be sure that the substation can remain before settling on that site? If so, then the design is the horse pulling the site selection.

I would seriously question the motives of anyone wanting to build the new center anywhere except in the heart of the city. First question . . . Do they stand to profit from another location?

I suggest treading lightly on that whole profit motivation thing, because it makes the case held by many that the new CC is a giant fleecing of taxpayer's money for the enrichment of a few. Such folks care not which rogue believes he wears the white hat and the other guy wears the black hat.

Besides, I've read lots of opinions from posters on the charrette who like other sites, such as across the river, Lafayette Ave and the Gulch, whose arguments don't seem tainted by personal gain.

Whoever owns the land that the CC goes on will profit. Whoever has restaraunt, retail or entertainment venues near the ultimate site will profit. Heck, if no-one profits from its construction, given its function as an economic booster, then the CC would be an abject failure, no?

[smeagolsfree]

The talk now is that the NES substation will have to be moved. That will be additional cost as well as a making it a green facility as has been mentioned by the mayor.

[producer2]

A little off topic, but can you or someone elaborate about what finishing out the Sommet Center entails?

Also, I can't imagine blocking the street grid in the SoBro location, especially with the details that have been put forth into making Demonbreun a better thoroughfare to downtown, and more importantly with all the other growth we know will come in SoBro. Someone posted a rendering a while back of another cities CC that had the building over the street grid in certain spots...does anyone remember that or can someone post it back?

There is an area of the arena currently known as the reherasal hall that is unfinished (just concrete block wall, floor, etc.) The original plan for this space was as a broadcast facility for television and a small music venue. Part of the new lease deal calls for the city to finish it out so the management company has a more marketable space to help facilitate more bookings of smaller events. Tis space will be prime once the new center is built.

[producer2]

NES has estimated $30 million to move their substation. The coalition says the CC can be built around it. Wouldn't it be wise to be sure that the substation can remain before settling on that site? If so, then the design is the horse pulling the site selection.

I suggest treading lightly on that whole profit motivation thing, because it makes the case held by many that the new CC is a giant fleecing of taxpayer's money for the enrichment of a few. Such folks care not which rogue believes he wears the white hat and the other guy wears the black hat.

Besides, I've read lots of opinions from posters on the charrette who like other sites, such as across the river, Lafayette Ave and the Gulch, whose arguments don't seem tainted by personal gain.

Whoever owns the land that the CC goes on will profit. Whoever has restaraunt, retail or entertainment venues near the ultimate site will profit. Heck, if no-one profits from its construction, given its function as an economic booster, then the CC would be an abject failure, no?

First let's set the record straight about this whole fleecing of taxpayers issue. The Center is slated to be built with funds collected from the hotel/motel tax paid for by visitors to this city. This has a PROVEN track record as it is how the current center was funded and not a DIME of taxpayer money was used to build the facility. The estimates given of money collection by the MCC are conservative at best and this is a good thing. Who exactly would stand to gain financially from this site other than property owners who you have stated will gain no matter where it is built?

Second, I am told that NES has stated that the new center and subsequent growth of the sobro area will require an addition to the current grid to handle the power needs. This is going to cause the grid to move to another location in Sobro. I am sure there will be some shared costs by a variety of entities including the MCC, city, and NES.

As I have posted on this forum and the Charrette I think it is wiser to discuss the actual design and how it can be the best for all in the Sobro location as I truly do not thhink it will be built elsewhere. Arguing on these forums is certainly not going to change anyones mind that matters.

[nashvylle]

producer2, please tell me that sobro is going to be the site for the CC. I drove around lafayette today and i think that would be a terrible place. We need this CC to be in the heart of downtown, so the restaurants, retail, and hotels will prosper in our urban core. If the park is built on top of the roof, it will draw residents to our core, not to mention the density it brings to downtown. Go SOBRO.

[producer2]

This should help:

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar.../801080367/1092

[smeagolsfree]

Interesting that NES was all over the substation lot with surveying equipment yesterday. Lets get the ball rolling and pump a bunch of money into DT. This may be the shot in the arm the economy needs DT to get some other things going such as the Thermal site.

Edited January 8, 2008 by smeagolsfree

[Hankster]

This should help:

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar.../801080367/1092

That article said exactly what I wanted to read. The project has been studied to death, and it's time to get started. Let's go, indeed!

[producer2]

As promised the first bit of info:

When: Thursday, January 17

Time: 4:00 PM

Where: Metro Council Chambers

[nashwatcher]

a question for anyone who has any concept of how sobro might develop in the coming years if a convention center is built...

a property just south of peabody street on 5th av south. about a block and a half south from the proposed cc. does anyone think this area will develop, as its currently old industrial small buildings...? what could want to build there as it seems most cc goers will want to go north to broadway when exploring, and this area is currently pretty rough...

thanks for any incite...

As promised the first bit of info:

When: Thursday, January 17

Time: 4:00 PM

Where: Metro Council Chambers

[nashvylle]

hotel groups are buying properties all around the proposed CC. If everything goes through for the CC and these hotels are built, restaurants and retail will also be developed, further reaching into areas of 5th ave south.

[nashwatcher]

thanks, it's comforting to think property values will rise further south of where the proposed site is...

if you were sitting on property south of the proposed convention center, would you sell it now? wait a few years and see how everything develops? property in the proposed cc footprint is going for ~$60/sf, i'm curious anyone's opinion of what they would ask if they owned property a block and a half south...

hotel groups are buying properties all around the proposed CC. If everything goes through for the CC and these hotels are built, restaurants and retail will also be developed, further reaching into areas of 5th ave south.

[producer2]

I think it is a major reason the current site is the most likely choice. To speculate what "might" be developed in between the services (hotels, etc.) and the center is too big a risk at the cost of the project. Many feel it is better to have infill around the project. Some may not agree...

[nashwatcher]

"too big a risk at the cost of the project"? what do you mean?

and what is infill?

tia

I think it is a major reason the current site is the most likely choice. To speculate what "might" be developed in between the services (hotels, etc.) and the center is too big a risk at the cost of the project. Many feel it is better to have infill around the project. Some may not agree...

[smeagolsfree]

Welcome to the forum nashwatcher. I think I know who you are. One thing I see ,JMO is a number of residential project's in that area as well as parking structures and even a possible pocket neighborhood such as the one developing just north of the RR tracks along 3rd avenue. The proximity to the new Gateway blvd will allow even more office and mixed use building to develop.

Here is an example of what could occur and this is from the SBER website.

Notice page 6 of this pdf

http://www.sber.com/downloads/Nashville_2007.pdf

The property you are asking about is just west of some of this development. Now depending on SBER action on this property is ever followed through or not is a matter of opinion but someone will eventually see all the potential in this area. Other examples of development in this area that has occurred is the expansion of the Howard Office complex, The new fire station and the Metro fire HQ that is of course farther south on first ave. Another example of growth may be the Sobro if it is built at all, but as you and I both know Sonny Belew has bought the property and some thing will be done with it.

The lack of available property in the CBD also warrants further expansion south and property is still relatively cheap but going up. DT expansion will not move north because of the Capitol district and the plans the state has for that area and other developers are still considering properties in that area, but height restrictions hamper much vertical growth. West of DT is already happening, the example being the Gulch. The only other areas west that would be available is the area between I40 and lets say bounded by Church , Charlotte and 20th ave. Bristol development has plans in that area and there are other properties being bought now by other individuals along 15th and Heinz, not to mention other property that I know has options on them around West End and Hayes. East, you have the River and the long range plans of the city for the East Bank. We will just have to wait and see what happens with the master plan there. So IMO, south may be the best area for growth and expansion of DT. I think too that the Ragland group will have a huge impact on what happens around Gateway as they own a lot of the land there. I believe it will be a mixture of building uses and styles but its time has not quite yet come but soon.

Edited January 12, 2008 by smeagolsfree

[Hankster]

http://www.sber.com/downloads/Nashville_2007.pdf

I beleive SBER's vision of SoBro is right on, and personally I still hope they end up developing the Thermal site.

[nashvylle]

i do not like where the metal site is because i think the CC center needs to be within walking distance of all the retail shops, restaurants, and hotels already present in the sobro area, broadway, and central business district. On the other hand, the owner of the metal auto plant isn't planning on selling anytime soon.

[nashwatcher]

thanks smeags, this is good info

the area i'm concerned with is south of the development shown on the link, between peabody and lea on 5th. sonny's building is encouraging as it drops the development flow further south, but it's down on 3rd. i'm curious time frame opinions for when we'll see strong interest in the area i'm talking, assuming the cc is announced for the sobro site soon...

also, any opinions on property values around where the howard office building is? think demand will drop this far south anytime soon?(ie just north of 40)

again, many thanks...

Notice page 6 of this pdf

http://www.sber.com/downloads/Nashville_2007.pdf

The property you are asking about is just west of some of this development. Now depending on SBER action on this property is ever followed through or not is a matter of opinion but someone will eventually see all the potential in this area. Other examples of development in this area that has occurred is the expansion of the Howard Office complex, The new fire station and the Metro fire HQ that is of course farther south on first ave. Another example of growth may be the Sobro if it is built at all, but as you and I both know Sonny Belew has bought the property and some thing will be done with it.

The lack of available property in the CBD also warrants further expansion south and property is still relatively cheap but going up.

[smeagolsfree]

From the Tennessean this morning. This article has to do with the rising cost, bond solvency, and slowing economy affecting the chances of the CC. I already know where I want the CC. I just want to see it started soon. If Purcell had done his job, this would be a mute issue at this point in time and it would have been under construction.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...S0202/801170423

[Nashville_maestro]

Wow! I can't believe you beat me to this article! Well done smeagol! I really don't think that we have to worry about this convention center not happening. The mayor was on tn mornings on fox yesterday and he has made it a point to get this done calling it "an investment in ourselves". He was quick to point out that the people of Nashville would NOT be paying for it and all the financing would come from tourism. Point being, he's made it a priority to get this done and the tennessean article sounds a bit speculative to me.

I think it would take another black Tuesday to bring this project down.

Edited January 17, 2008 by Nashville_maestro

[producer2]

As usual the Tennessean's headlines do not fit the story. Even in the current economy Nashville's tourism industry is at least maintaining their current pace. 2008 is going to be flat, but flat is good for the upcoming year. As pointed out in the article, the hotel/motel tax is currently reaping almost 15 million a year and the project was first projected to need 11 million a year to complete. Even with the impending rise in constuction costs I believe they will be able to issue revenue bonds for this project. It is going to be interesting for awhile as the MCC will be front and center for public discussions.

[smeagolsfree]

I have not even had a chance to look at this, but this is part of the mayors CC presentation unveiled this afternoon.

http://www.nashville.gov/mdha/docs/Convention_Center.pdf

[smeagolsfree]

Looks as if the price tag is now 635 million and bonds could possibly be issued as early as the end of this year. I just skimmed this quickly but it seems as the the higher price tag is the real issue. Another thing is a 36 month construction period. This baby will take a while to build. Price tag is twice that of the Signature tower.

[nashvylle]

I want this new CC so bad! I hope it looks like the philadelphia one too, and i am hoping for a very tall CC hotel to go along with Signature Tower!