Downtown Population

[Florida]

My guess... Tallahassee's DT population is 2,100 given generous boundaries.

[AmericanUrbanDesigner]

Downtown Atlanta (not including Midtown) is 30,000.  Currently projects under construction or planned should boost the population to over 40,000 by my guess.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Seriously? "Downtown" Atlanta? Proof?

[AmericanUrbanDesigner]

This might throw some cold water on your claim that "downtown" Atlanta is home to 30,000 people...

June 03, 2003

How NOT to revitalize downtown -- learning from Atlanta

Last week ground was broken on a new downtown destination for Atlanta, the $200 million Georgia Aquarium, to be funded entirely by a donation by Home Depot co-founder Bernard Marcus. The Atlanta Journal-Constitution used the occasion to take a sober look at the likely impact on downtown Atlanta's vitality:

Construction cranes will raise hopes along with girders. Finally, boosters exhort, Atlanta's urban core will have the last major draw it needs to turn back 35 years of downtown resembling a ghost town at dusk....

Gov. Sonny Perdue adds his voice to the chorus. "This area can be a dramatic destination for people to stay longer in Atlanta," he said this week.

If the hyperbole sounds familiar, it is. Downtown Atlanta's recent past is checkered with the "next big thing" that was to save it.

The renovation of Underground Atlanta was the buzz in the 1980s. The 1990s were a whirlwind with the opening of the World of Coca-Cola museum near Underground and the decision of the Atlanta Falcons football team to stay downtown rather than move to the suburbs, not to mention the 1996 Summer Olympics, which were to make everyone want to live in the city center.

Each event was a step forward. But collectively the projects have remade downtown into the home of no more than 2,500 residents. (About the size of downtown Raleigh, NC).

[RiversideGator]

I thought that Atlanta figure was BS. I think it is 30-40,000 if you add in Midtown maybe. I think the problem is downtown ATL could be anywhere, meaning that there is no geographic reason for it to be there, like a river or port, so they just essentially have moved it north over the years to accommodate white flight. Hopefully one day it will come back though.

[AmericanUrbanDesigner]

I thought that Atlanta figure was BS.  I think it is 30-40,000 if you add in Midtown maybe.  I think the problem is downtown ATL could be anywhere, meaning that there is no geographic reason for it to be there, like a river or port, so they just essentially have moved it north over the years to accommodate white flight.  Hopefully one day it will come back though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is BS.

[teshadoh]

Hey AmericanUrbanDesigner, I thought you were familiar - you're ex-yankee from the other forum. Yes, the population stat is bull crap, I came back to this thread to respond to my initial statement that it was 30k. It is in fact only 10,000, based on the area of Northside Pkwy / I-20 / I-75-85 / North Ave. I don't know where I came across those figures, most likely some chamber commerce boosterist propeganda (you live in Charlotte, you should be familiar with that ). Nonetheless, I do have to state that it is certainly not 30k - most likely that population only refers to the surrounding neighborhoods, possibly given time - I may attempt to look further.

But - as I've wondered quite often at the other forum, I am truly astounded at your beligerant attitude, would you mind explaining your intolerant view regarding Atlanta?

But as noted in the other forum - your quote from the Tulsa OK newspaper is also bull crap. You are quoting from someone's blog entry where he reviews an article posted by the Atlanta Journal Constitution which questions the validity of 'big' projects such as Underground Atlanta, the convention center, sports facilities, & of course the acquarium. His reference to the Tulsa OK newspaper is b/c the newspaper printed the AJC piece, most likely for very good reason to provide pro's & con's of different approaches in downtown revitilization.

Riversidegator - your point is duly noted.

Anyways, Ex-Yankee / AmericanUrbanDesigner, chill out - I admit I've made incorrect statements before & never had I made a statement with the intent of decieving anyone to bolster a positive image of Atlanta. I don't really care if you don't like Atlanta, I only question your approach to making it a point to discredit Atlanta, often in order to 'defend' Charlotte, which is wholly unneccessary b/c Charlotte's success does not hinge on Atlanta's success. Seriously - their is room enough for everyone

[teshadoh]

It may surprise some (mainly AmericanUrbanDesigner) that I honestly don't like making mistakes, and when proven wrong I am quite embarressed by it. Of course AmericanUrbanDesigner didn't actually 'prove' me wrong, as he simply posted someone's own blog where the writer assumed Atlanta's downtown population was the same as Tulsa's.

Based on reviewing census data, I did find what is considered downtown Atlanta, a rather conservative measure is 10,000 people based on 2000 data. What I wondered was how I came across "30,000", I did find the source where I based - what I consider erroneous data.

Retailers always follow rooftops, and the downtown residential population is projected to grow from 25,000 to 30,000 just this year, Weir said.

http://atlanta.bizjournals.com/atlanta/sto.../28/focus3.html

Of course as I stated, I didn't find this to be correct, based on the downown district boundary. I can only assume the Atlanta Business Chronicle based that stat on neighboring downtown neighborhoods (possibly mine even) & current housing permits - which should likely signifciantly increase downtown's population.

But I just wanted to clarify my source for the 30,000 population stat.

[teshadoh]

Out of curiousity I looked for a generally non-biased listing of downtown populations. Primarily b/c our 'definition' of downtown varies, how I viewed downtown Atlanta to be, it was 10,000 but as other sources view 'downtown', it climbs to 25,000. So I found a site from the Brookings Institute, which I respect a good amount.

http://www.brookings.edu/es/urban/TOP21FIN.PDF

The date provided was 1998, so be forewarned that it is very much out of date. But it is interesting anyways....

[Twin Cities]

Hey AmericanUrbanDesigner, I thought you were familiar - you're ex-yankee from the

But - as I've wondered quite often at the other forum, I am truly astounded at your beligerant attitude, would you mind explaining your intolerant view regarding Atlanta?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

AmericanUrbanDesigner (aka Ex-Yankee, UrbanDesigner) is basically a troll. He trys to hype Charlotte to a level that it's not and in the process he's makes Charlotte people seem like a bunch of rubes because they usually defend him.

[ironchapman]

London has a big change in it's downtown population in it's central district..

At night, it's barely 4,000 people, I believe.

In the daytime, it's well over 1,000,000.

[teshadoh]

AmericanUrbanDesigner (aka Ex-Yankee, UrbanDesigner) is basically a troll.  He trys to hype Charlotte to a level that it's not and in the process he's makes Charlotte people seem like a bunch of rubes because they usually defend him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Honestly I don't want to touch the subject regarding Charlotte - I like the city, & as far as I"m concerned that is enough. As for him, it isn't neccessarily his 'boosterism', many of us are guilty of that (as some would assume I was boosting Atlanta's downtown population) but his need to make other citys look bad in order to make his look better. Which specifically refers to his insistance to counter any negative remark concerning Charlotte by suggesting that Atlanta is worse - even when no one had mentioned Atlanta or was even an Atlantan.

[AmericanUrbanDesigner]

Honestly I don't want to touch the subject regarding Charlotte - I like the city, & as far as I"m concerned that is enough.

[AmericanUrbanDesigner]

Honestly I don't want to touch the subject regarding Charlotte - I like the city, & as far as I"m concerned that is enough.  As for him, it isn't neccessarily his 'boosterism', many of us are guilty of that (as some would assume I was boosting Atlanta's downtown population) but his need to make other citys look bad in order to make his look better.  Which specifically refers to his insistance to counter any negative remark concerning Charlotte by suggesting that Atlanta is worse - even when no one had mentioned Atlanta or was even an Atlantan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do the two of you bareback when you attack an individual? Speaking of trolls, Bradley, following a forumer around forums accusing a person of being a troll is trolling. BTW, I have conclude that you and Twin are the same person since neither of you can spell.

[AmericanUrbanDesigner]

Hey AmericanUrbanDesigner, I thought you were familiar - you're ex-yankee from the other forum.  Yes, the population stat is bull crap, I came back to this thread to respond to my initial statement  that it was 30k.  It is in fact only 10,000, based on the area of Northside Pkwy / I-20 / I-75-85 / North Ave.  I don't know where I came across those figures, most likely some chamber commerce boosterist propeganda (you live in Charlotte, you should be familiar with that ).  Nonetheless, I do have to state that it is certainly not 30k - most likely that population only refers to the surrounding neighborhoods, possibly given time - I may attempt to look further.

But - as I've wondered quite often at the other forum, I am truly astounded at your beligerant attitude, would you mind explaining your intolerant view regarding Atlanta?

But as noted in the other forum - your quote from the Tulsa OK newspaper is also bull crap.  You are quoting from someone's blog entry where he reviews an article posted by the Atlanta Journal Constitution which questions the validity of 'big' projects such as Underground Atlanta, the convention center, sports facilities, & of course the acquarium.  His reference to the Tulsa OK newspaper is b/c the newspaper printed the AJC piece, most likely for very good reason to provide pro's & con's of different approaches in downtown revitilization.

Riversidegator - your point is duly noted.

Anyways, Ex-Yankee / AmericanUrbanDesigner, chill out - I admit I've made incorrect statements before & never had I made a statement with the intent of decieving anyone to bolster a positive image of Atlanta.  I don't  really care if you don't like Atlanta, I only question your approach to making it a point to discredit Atlanta, often in order to 'defend' Charlotte, which is wholly unneccessary b/c Charlotte's success does not hinge on Atlanta's success.  Seriously - their is room enough for everyone

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bradley (aka "The Brad") What the f***? Aren't you being a tad little "beligerant" (is this a word?) yourself? You can deduct that I "hate" Atlanta" if you want...I guess I should take it as a compliment that you consider my opinion of Atlanta so important (it's not important, by the way...). Here's my point, it's OK to take down Charlotte forumers for inaccurate data and hyperbole but it's trolling or being hypercritical to point out fallacies in information?

[teshadoh]

Fair enough, hope you have a good day

[leets]

Out of curiousity I looked for a generally non-biased listing of downtown populations.

[teshadoh]

The problem with this report is that each cities was asked to define its own downtown.  I think they each used their own criteria to define their downtown areas.  There is no way in hell that Detroit has 32,000 people living downtown and it certainly does not have more people downtown than Boston which has a super dense downtown population

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good point - that does seem to be the largest contention in this thread, what area is being used to determine downtown population. As even I found, population figures for 'downtown' Atlanta runs from the extreme of 30k to 10k - depending on which near - downtown area was included.

The problem is I am not aware of any uniform downtown district definitions - would it be the pre WWII traditional view of the CBD, or downtown & immediate urban neighborhoods, or the modern interpretation of the downtown? I've viewed city's downtown 'official' sites trying to find what their downtown district was & it has not been conclusive. Even Atlanta's downtown booster organization has an out of date map produced by an outside organization indicating what downtown is. Also, another idea would be to indicate the measured area of the downtown boundary.

But I guess I really don't know