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I still dont see population being an issue. Even if it iw west of Providence. We have a million people in the state and spill over in the SE CT area, Newport and the islands, even SE mass. Plenty of people not counting Boston. And heck, look at Mohegan. They sit out in the butt and of nowhere and seem to be packing in shows into their arena.

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Also... Actually the 1 venue that really hasnt bee that much of a letdown is the PPaC. They have always been pretty successful in bringing in the "broadway" type shows which suit that type of venue nicely. Granted it would be a great place for some concerts to boot.

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I still dont see population being an issue. Even if it iw west of Providence. We have a million people in the state and spill over in the SE CT area, Newport and the islands, even SE mass. Plenty of people not counting Boston. And heck, look at Mohegan. They sit out in the butt and of nowhere and seem to be packing in shows into their arena.

Mohegan has a built-in convenience that the Dunk doesn't have. It's got everything built in. The Dunk needs to advertise the city as having everything within walking distance.

Newport and the islands aren't very populous. SE CT isn't very populous outside of New London/Groton/Norwich, which I would say fall just as much in Hartford's pull as it does ours.

RI lacks population outside of Providence and the surrounding cities and towns. It's great for the urbanism, but doesn't help in the sense you're talking about.

Again, we're up against tough competition and while you claim we have all this population, the population of concert goers is a fraction of that and easily split between Hartford and Mansfield. The only states where there are these types of venues out in the middle of small populations are large rural states.

Also... Actually the 1 venue that really hasnt bee that much of a letdown is the PPaC. They have always been pretty successful in bringing in the "broadway" type shows which suit that type of venue nicely. Granted it would be a great place for some concerts to boot.

PPAC is great for those Broadway type shows, but I think it should be used for concerts as well. I also think Lupo's can be a bit better at pulling in some of those smaller acts.

Again, I'm not saying we can't compete on all levels, just the really large 20k+ level. It's a matter of economics and time for the tours, not for us. I would love to see some smaller more intimate theatre type shows here. I'd love to have our own BoA Pavilion on the waterfront, overlooking the water.

This is all still off topic for this thread, but you're not convincing me that it would be able to compete with Great Woods and Meadows. The population is divided enough that it goes to one or the other and wouldn't be worth it for touring acts to stop in a place an hour from each of those (which are already just 2 hours apart).

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Mohegan has a built-in convenience that the Dunk doesn't have. It's got everything built in. The Dunk needs to advertise the city as having everything within walking distance.

Newport and the islands aren't very populous. SE CT isn't very populous outside of New London/Groton/Norwich, which I would say fall just as much in Hartford's pull as it does ours.

RI lacks population outside of Providence and the surrounding cities and towns. It's great for the urbanism, but doesn't help in the sense you're talking about.

Again, we're up against tough competition and while you claim we have all this population, the population of concert goers is a fraction of that and easily split between Hartford and Mansfield. The only states where there are these types of venues out in the middle of small populations are large rural states.

PPAC is great for those Broadway type shows, but I think it should be used for concerts as well. I also think Lupo's can be a bit better at pulling in some of those smaller acts.

Again, I'm not saying we can't compete on all levels, just the really large 20k+ level. It's a matter of economics and time for the tours, not for us. I would love to see some smaller more intimate theatre type shows here. I'd love to have our own BoA Pavilion on the waterfront, overlooking the water.

This is all still off topic for this thread, but you're not convincing me that it would be able to compete with Great Woods and Meadows. The population is divided enough that it goes to one or the other and wouldn't be worth it for touring acts to stop in a place an hour from each of those (which are already just 2 hours apart).

Ok, back to the Dunk then. If the capacity was the same as TD, now I am speaking hypothetical, you dont think it would compete? Think of it from this angle. What is more convieniant to go to? I can tell you for a fact that I have yet to be to TD because no show in the world is worth the nightmere it is getting to Boston. The Dunk is much more convieniant and actually much easier to park at. Capacity is the only thing missing. It is now connected to the Mall even and people could do what I do when going to events. I show up hours in advance and kill time.

I am confident that given it being done right we could compete. I dont anticipate being able to convince you but let me ask you this. Why is it ok for people in RI and SE Mass to drive all the way to Boston but not for people from Boston outskirts to drive to Providence?

I will share with you some facts. While I dont think the Times Union in Albany has anything that close, like TD to us, there is something to note. Albany city proper population is 95,000 people. That is slightly more than Warwick. Their metro population is around 851,000 and the Times Union is a 17,500 seat arena.

So agian tell me why with a population proper of 175,000 people and a Metro population of 1.6Million why the Dunk couldnt be a 17,500 seat larger scale venue?

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Ok, back to the Dunk then. If the capacity was the same as TD, now I am speaking hypothetical, you dont think it would compete? Think of it from this angle. What is more convieniant to go to? I can tell you for a fact that I have yet to be to TD because no show in the world is worth the nightmere it is getting to Boston. The Dunk is much more convieniant and actually much easier to park at. Capacity is the only thing missing. It is now connected to the Mall even and people could do what I do when going to events. I show up hours in advance and kill time.

I am confident that given it being done right we could compete. I dont anticipate being able to convince you but let me ask you this. Why is it ok for people in RI and SE Mass to drive all the way to Boston but not for people from Boston outskirts to drive to Providence?

I will share with you some facts. While I dont think the Times Union in Albany has anything that close, like TD to us, there is something to note. Albany city proper population is 95,000 people. That is slightly more than Warwick. Their metro population is around 851,000 and the Times Union is a 17,500 seat arena.

So agian tell me why with a population proper of 175,000 people and a Metro population of 1.6Million why the Dunk couldnt be a 17,500 seat larger scale venue?

I don't know the history of the Dunk. Was the capacity ever 17,500? My guess is it was not. At this point, in order to build a place with that kind of capacity, we would need to tear down the current building and re-build the whole thing. I'll tell you this... if the Dunk ever gets torn down "to re-build with more capacity", we'll have a convenient parking lot for the Hilton and Convention Center. It's just not gonna happen. You're correct that Albany has nothing close. NYC, Hartford, and Bridgeport have the closest arenas to my knowledge and they're all a good distance away (~3 hours). Providence has 4 arenas (not counting the Dunk) within a 1.5 hour drive, Hartford being the longest only because there's no good direct route.

You've got a big mistake in your statements... the cars. People in and around Boston take the T to the Garden. People in RI drive. That's a HUGE difference. I have never been to the Garden, not because I won't drive to Boston or to the T, but because there's been nothing there to make me want to go. Boston proper has a population of about 500,000. The immediate area, within the reaches of the T, is probably close to 1mil. That's the size of the entire state of RI. The Providence metro includes parts of MA that are on the commuter rail or less than an hour's drive from Boston.

I don't have any kind of issues with how small we are. I like it. We're not competing with Boston. Even if you were to increase the capacity of the Dunk to 25k it wouldn't compete with Boston because Boston has the people right there. Capacity only gets you so far. You need the population and patrons. I don't think we'd fill a 20+k arena without the built-in population.

Now, if you include a RIPTA that everyone uses that services the Dunk easily and has good connections around the city and surrounding towns and a rail line and street car system, then we might be able to fill the Dunk.

I think you have to consider how many events sold out the Dunk prior to the renovation. If only the highest demand events (Britney and Hannah Montana) sold it out, there's no reason to have the additional 2000-3000 seats.

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I don't know the history of the Dunk. Was the capacity ever 17,500? My guess is it was not. At this point, in order to build a place with that kind of capacity, we would need to tear down the current building and re-build the whole thing. I'll tell you this... if the Dunk ever gets torn down "to re-build with more capacity", we'll have a convenient parking lot for the Hilton and Convention Center. It's just not gonna happen. You're correct that Albany has nothing close. NYC, Hartford, and Bridgeport have the closest arenas to my knowledge and they're all a good distance away (~3 hours). Providence has 4 arenas (not counting the Dunk) within a 1.5 hour drive, Hartford being the longest only because there's no good direct route.

You've got a big mistake in your statements... the cars. People in and around Boston take the T to the Garden. People in RI drive. That's a HUGE difference. I have never been to the Garden, not because I won't drive to Boston or to the T, but because there's been nothing there to make me want to go. Boston proper has a population of about 500,000. The immediate area, within the reaches of the T, is probably close to 1mil. That's the size of the entire state of RI. The Providence metro includes parts of MA that are on the commuter rail or less than an hour's drive from Boston.

I don't have any kind of issues with how small we are. I like it. We're not competing with Boston. Even if you were to increase the capacity of the Dunk to 25k it wouldn't compete with Boston because Boston has the people right there. Capacity only gets you so far. You need the population and patrons. I don't think we'd fill a 20+k arena without the built-in population.

Now, if you include a RIPTA that everyone uses that services the Dunk easily and has good connections around the city and surrounding towns and a rail line and street car system, then we might be able to fill the Dunk.

I think you have to consider how many events sold out the Dunk prior to the renovation. If only the highest demand events (Britney and Hannah Montana) sold it out, there's no reason to have the additional 2000-3000 seats.

This history of the Dunk had it at 14,500 prior to the renovations where when we were competative sold out quite a bit and on more than a few occasions had second shows added. Secon Albany has no one to draw from. They have their 900,000 people and that is it. Just RI, within its own boarders has that beat so we dont need to consider Boston.

As far as what was needed for renovations, it has been talked about in the past. The renovations cost the arena 2000 seats, that is the whole point of my posts here. Going from the 14.5K down to 12.5K is the crux of what I am complaining about. For less than the money spent they could have at least put another 500 seats in there to get to 15K. That would put is in the range of what Hartford has but instead they reduced by 2k.

I do have a problem with being small, I am almost bitter with the idea of spending money out of state when my income tax keeps going up. When my property tax keeps going up...When we keep hearing about how broke the state is when there is little in the form of income outside of taxes. When we see small business closing because of no patronage.

I am not looking for us to be Boston but I am looking for something in terms of an economic boost for us. They are tapping the tax well dry and we do little outside of Twin River to diversify that economic income.

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I remember reading somewhere that when we were planing to build the RICC and attached garage and hotel Boston was critizing us, although I'm not sure if it was just the Boston Globe or not. I've been searching for this article/editorial for years with no luck. I really want to see that article, so if anyone has it.................

I've always wondered if it was just jealousy since at the time Boston only had the Haines Auditorium for conventions and trade shows. Now of course they have a new convention center which will probably blow ours away. We must remain competative. Low hotel room rates play a big part of the equation, as does there closeness to the convention center. I may be wrong, but dosen't the new Boston CC have only one hotel that's attached in the area?

I have been to a couple of conventions in Boston, one being MS TechEd. As for facility they blow us clean out of the water. The Dunk and the RICC could fit inside Bostons new convention center and there would still be room. I am pretty sure it is just above 500,000SQ Feet. So no we are not even in the same league. Add that to my critiscism that we just keep thinking small. One thing I will note is that I dont think there is much at all for hotels near Bostons convention center. We all had to be bussed in and out, it was a pain.

Its too bad we cant think big, we got it right with having it all connected and such but if you cannot fit the shows...

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I have been to a couple of conventions in Boston, one being MS TechEd. As for facility they blow us clean out of the water. The Dunk and the RICC could fit inside Bostons new convention center and there would still be room. I am pretty sure it is just above 500,000SQ Feet. So no we are not even in the same league. Add that to my critiscism that we just keep thinking small. One thing I will note is that I dont think there is much at all for hotels near Bostons convention center. We all had to be bussed in and out, it was a pain.

Its too bad we cant think big, we got it right with having it all connected and such but if you cannot fit the shows...

MS will not hold an event in Providence. They have offices in Boston. They do not have offices in Providence. Again, you're comparing apples and oranges. If you want to compare us to Hartford, Worcester, New Haven, or Bridgeport, that's fine. They're comparable. Boston, however, is not.

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MS will not hold an event in Providence. They have offices in Boston. They do not have offices in Providence. Again, you're comparing apples and oranges. If you want to compare us to Hartford, Worcester, New Haven, or Bridgeport, that's fine. They're comparable. Boston, however, is not.

Has nothing to do with where they have offices, they move the event around the country. To my knowlage they dont have offices in New Orleans but the event is there this year. Its a big event and needs a big venue, the Morial Convention Center.

For the record, I have been to a CTIA Wireless convention in New Orleans a few years back. The Morial is abnoxously huge. Huge like more than twice the size of the one in Boston.

New Orleans Arena is pretty big aswell, 20k and that isnt counting the Super Dome.

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Has nothing to do with where they have offices, they move the event around the country. To my knowlage they dont have offices in New Orleans but the event is there this year. Its a big event and needs a big venue, the Morial Convention Center.

For the record, I have been to a CTIA Wireless convention in New Orleans a few years back. The Morial is abnoxously huge. Huge like more than twice the size of the one in Boston.

New Orleans Arena is pretty big aswell, 20k and that isnt counting the Super Dome.

You're still talking about a city that is larger than Providence with a metro the size of RI. Comparing Providence to southern or Western cities is also difficult because they tend to have the land for larger places. Smaller Northeastern cities are old and small in land and usually pretty densely populated. We don't have the space for a convention center of that size. We don't have room downtown for an arena big enough to hold 20k. As it stands, the Dunk is already taking up pretty much all the available land where it sits. You can go any farther north because of the highway. You can only go south if you cut out part of Sabin St. East and west are blocked by the Hilton and the RICC.

Again, believe me when I tell you that I would love to see and event like that held here. It was pretty huge that we had the conference of mayors this year (even though the idiots at the Fire Department kind of ruined it for the city).

Certain types of events are not made for smaller cities like ours. Sometimes you just have to think realistically. Providence hosts the NERCOMP conference now, which is pretty big. It's and IT conference for colleges and universities in the northeast, which includes (I believe) colleges as far west as Ohio and as far as south Pennsylvania (though most of the members are from the CT/RI/MA area). It's not thousands of people coming, but it's a few hundred coming to Providence for a 3 day event each year.

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You're still talking about a city that is larger than Providence with a metro the size of RI. Comparing Providence to southern or Western cities is also difficult because they tend to have the land for larger places. Smaller Northeastern cities are old and small in land and usually pretty densely populated. We don't have the space for a convention center of that size. We don't have room downtown for an arena big enough to hold 20k. As it stands, the Dunk is already taking up pretty much all the available land where it sits.

If I

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You're still talking about a city that is larger than Providence with a metro the size of RI. Comparing Providence to southern or Western cities is also difficult because they tend to have the land for larger places. Smaller Northeastern cities are old and small in land and usually pretty densely populated. We don't have the space for a convention center of that size. We don't have room downtown for an arena big enough to hold 20k. As it stands, the Dunk is already taking up pretty much all the available land where it sits. You can go any farther north because of the highway. You can only go south if you cut out part of Sabin St. East and west are blocked by the Hilton and the RICC.

Again, believe me when I tell you that I would love to see and event like that held here. It was pretty huge that we had the conference of mayors this year (even though the idiots at the Fire Department kind of ruined it for the city).

Certain types of events are not made for smaller cities like ours. Sometimes you just have to think realistically. Providence hosts the NERCOMP conference now, which is pretty big. It's and IT conference for colleges and universities in the northeast, which includes (I believe) colleges as far west as Ohio and as far as south Pennsylvania (though most of the members are from the CT/RI/MA area). It's not thousands of people coming, but it's a few hundred coming to Providence for a 3 day event each year.

As for conventions I tend to agree with you. Only thing I was eluding to is the differances between RICC and Boston as they both compair to New Orleans. Believe it or not if you look at the event calanders RICC gets more conventions of interest than Boston even tho Bostone gets those once in a while huge events. I still feel differantly about the arena tho. You read how Hartford is trying to rebuild their arena with major league sports in mind, Providence should be thinking the same.

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If I'm not mistaken when they were designing the Providence Civic Center, there was discussion that the facility could be potentially enlarged at a later time by taking off the roof and adding an upper tier or balcony that could effectively double its capacity. That still could be done if it were deemed necessary.

As far as New Orleans goes its metro area has a population of 1.1 million with a land area almost two times larger in area than the Providence metro area. The city itself is around 180 square miles with a population of 350,000. The Providence metro has 1.6 million people and if you draw loose 100 square mile rectangle with Downtown Providence in the northern half the population is around half a million. Providence County alone has over 620,000 people. Providence is bigger by most counts though downtown is constrained in area. Boston is more constrained and densely populated than Providence, but always seems to find the room to accommodate large developments that will improve the city's economy and position.

A few things give New Orleans an advantage over Providence. Firstly climate. Also, their airport has a 10,000+ foot long runway and NOLA has been courting the tourist trade much longer than Providence. Providence has only been a serious tourist destination for a little over 10 years. New Orleans has 18,000 hotel rooms and built the Superdome to insure their prominance.

Anything is possible for Providence. In many ways it's easier to get things done in Providence and Rhode Island than any place else due to its small size, compactness, and proximity. It just takes imagination, vision, and consensus. This forum, as well as others, is the place to develop these ideas. The key is to keep the discussion expansive and not to become limited by preconceptions.

The talk of the early 90s was to lift the roof and add seats. That is why I am really dissapointed that they didnt do it to some extent.

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It all comes down to demand. If enough events are sold out and there is a demand to add seats then it will happen. But don't hold your breath in this economy and after the state just spent 85 million to do the renovations and purchase.

We are stuck with what we have for at least the next 25 - 30 years.

But the renovations which they made are very good. With what they had to spend the place does look much better and newer. And it was finished just in time.

The NCAA tournament is coming this March which will be the largest and most prominent event since the renovations were completed.

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  • 2 months later...

It all comes down to demand. If enough events are sold out and there is a demand to add seats then it will happen. But don't hold your breath in this economy and after the state just spent 85 million to do the renovations and purchase.

We are stuck with what we have for at least the next 25 - 30 years.

But the renovations which they made are very good. With what they had to spend the place does look much better and newer. And it was finished just in time.

The NCAA tournament is coming this March which will be the largest and most prominent event since the renovations were completed.

Yea...it is what it is. Bottom line is that I would like to see something in this state to help offset our stifled economy. I just went to this last WWE event in the Dunk and it is very nice since the renovations.

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With all of the dark gray seats you get the feeling you are walking into a movie theater. The seats are to narrow. The arm rest grab your pockets as you sit down.

Some nice improvments: lobby, restaurant, skyboxes, bridge to Convention Center. Wider concourse.

It looks like a 35 year old building with a paint job.

So I am going to still wait and see. I will tell you this...I was glad to see WWE stop by with Smackdown...went to the show. One thing I can say...is that I was comfortable. I have never been to TD but I am going to assume their seats rock also since it is a new arena but how do XL and DCU stack up...Been to DCU but its been ages. Anyway...for what its worth the Dunk seats are nice.

Also when they list the capacity on their website....Are they just referring to the perminant seats? I know the lower thrid of the bown is actually not perm seats...think its that way because the Dunk used to be used for conventions. There are a slew of discrepancies when capacity is listed...some say 14k others say 11K it confuses me though I am sure now that after being there its more toward the 14K.

Anyways after being there the place does look nice. I dig the brown seats and the whole interier color....Much better than the white turn pee yellow.

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  • 8 months later...

Ok, My last post was back in 2009. Since I have been so critical of the direction the improvments went in I wanted to post a follow up here.

Here is the question... How do you see the Dunk doing now that the improvments to the arena are old news. Has it been a success? Or not?

I am curious how folks here see it. I will post my answer later....

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  • 4 weeks later...

Ok, My last post was back in 2009. Since I have been so critical of the direction the improvments went in I wanted to post a follow up here.

Here is the question... How do you see the Dunk doing now that the improvments to the arena are old news. Has it been a success? Or not?

I am curious how folks here see it. I will post my answer later....

I would say the improvements have been viewed as a sucess. It does make the building a lot easier to get into and move around in. The recent NCAA Basketball event was viewed as a great success and supposedly it is being looked at as a sight for the expanded tournament starting in 2011 (next year).

Everything came together nicely that weekend to show off the city and it's possibilites but without the new Dunk it wouldn't have had a shot to hold the games.

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