Norfolk Hilton Project

[spiker3]

I'm too lazy to post is, but read Margaret whatsherface of Pilot, Kerry dougherty i mean, lol, on the Hilton deal. While we generally don't agree with her rants and views, she kinda hits the nail on the head with this one. Let's back away from 'four star hotel' classification, since neither we, the city, or the developer control such things. If anyone wants to post it that'd be awesome, and reinforce my laziness

[spiker3]

Norfolk Council okays Convention Center/Hotel Deal

Somebody paid off the Virginian-Pilot....2 days ago we're paying over $80 mil and today nothing is mentioned?

NORFOLK -- After hearing historic preservationists and taxpayers ask the city to reconsider a proposal to build a $125 million combination hotel convention center downtown, the City Council voted 6-2 to approve the project Tuesday.

The approval will bring a 20-story, $47 million Hilton hotel that will be connected to a $49 million convention center and a 611-space parking garage. Site work, at the corner of Granby and Main streets, is scheduled to begin in June, with construction set for late fall, city officials said.

The project, more than seven years in the making, will bring one of the richest black entrepreneurs in the United States to Hampton Roads in a major way. Billionaire Robert L. Johnson's RLJ Development of Bethesda, Md., will build the 235-room hotel, along with Norfolk-based Fulco Development.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

Well... at least we can put the mess of the past few years behind us and push onward FINALLY.

PS: What on earth guys? Online at 2 am!? I'm on spring break so I have an excuse!

[vdogg]

I'm too lazy to post is, but read Margaret whatsherface of Pilot, Kerry dougherty i mean, lol, on the Hilton deal. While we generally don't agree with her rants and views, she kinda hits the nail on the head with this one. Let's back away from 'four star hotel' classification, since neither we, the city, or the developer control such things. If anyone wants to post it that'd be awesome, and reinforce my laziness

[vdogg]

It must be real. This is the first ever solid constuction start date. Hopefully we have a few design changes by

June. Things i'm unhappy with: 1) The subsidy is not needed, the guys a Billionaire. 2) We were already covering too much of the cost as is. 3) This thing better actually be 4 star when done. Things I'm happy with: 1) We'll have 3 buildings over 20 floor going up downtown at the same time. Both Wachovia (because it's office) and the Hilton (*because of convention floor heights) should approach if not top 300ft. This should really help the skyline. 2.) The density in that area will be fantastic. 3.) Another luxury hotel to serve our newly opened cruise terminal (though ideally they should've been opening at the same time). I've got mixed feelings about this but I must admit to being somewhat happy now that this thing is finally underway. Also, this having been the first tuesday of the month this council meeting was recorded and should be availiable online. When it is i'll let you guys know.

[vdogg]

Norfolk Council okays Convention Center/Hotel Deal

Somebody paid off the Virginian-Pilot....2 days ago we're paying over $80 mil and today nothing is mentioned?

or....

[Padman]

Let's hope there are no more delays or deal sweeteners needed to get this thing built. The project will add some needed hotel and conference space in an optimal location. Although the design should be improved, the glassy base might add some light, openness and warmth to the street level. Maybe the top could take some hints from the lighting of the Trader building. It won't be very tall, but the condos wouldn't have added much height or attractiveness to it anyway. Both this hotel and the Marriott could do very well with this expansion. But at this price..I want room service..at my home.

[skylinefan]

There has got to be a limit to the incentives the city gives to developers. Giveaways to Marathon (Granby Tower), Ft. Norfolk Plaza, now the Hilton. After a while Downtown is going to have to stand on its own. I hope that this is the last performance grant for awhile and the city says no more and draws a line in the sand. I hope for my friends who are Norfolk residents that this substantial investment by the city pays off.

[Sky06]

There has got to be a limit to the incentives the city gives to developers. Giveaways to Marathon (Granby Tower), Ft. Norfolk Plaza, now the Hilton. After a while Downtown is going to have to stand on its own. I hope that this is the last performance grant for awhile and the city says no more and draws a line in the sand. I hope for my friends who are Norfolk residents that this substantial investment by the city pays off.

[skylinefan]

I think it will pay off. As for subsidies, I agree that one shouldn't have been provided here, although if it's successful, it will be recouped by city. As for Granby, it was the right thing to do. And as for Fort Norfolk, the city obviously wanted to jump-start developement, which has been slowed by legal issues and hasn't seen any new projects since HE. Hopefully, that will be the last in FN.

The key to this project's success with business and cruise travelers (not to mention UP users' happiness) will be quality of design and construction. I too hope it will look great.

I got it from a very reliable source that mayor said the demolition work will definitely begin by October. Maybe they can salvage the wood from B&B by then.

[ace707]

Well like many of you, I am happy that we are finally going to get this building. And like many of you, I am also not quite happy with the subsidy. I'm not quite upset with the city on how much it's spending on this project except for that $7.5 million. To Johnson that is chump change. Honestly that is all I'm upset about this project and the top half of the hotel design (though with the condominiums gone it may not look AS bad since the hotel and condo portion didn't mend well anyway). Hopefully we'll get one final design before construction begins.

I want to add my own opinion about Norfolk and it's spending on projects. While it seems unnessary to some of these projects (ie Fort Norfolk Plaza and Hilton) I can also understand why the city would resort to this tactic. I feel it is simply due to "ripple" effects will have specifically with Granby Tower and Hilton. In the case of Granby tower, this city is determined to have the most prestigious residential building in a 50 mile radius. Couple that with it's outstanding architectural and potentially iconic design and the fact that it is the state's second tallest building and mere feet away from the tallest, it definitely allow the city to strut it's ego and power in the future.

Hilton is simply in the city's view, deperately needed. The city's 3 main downtown full service hotels Sheraton, Marriott, and Radisson are constantly filled and with the upcoming cruise ship terminal and pending office building boom, the last thing the city wants to do is take those business' visiting business workers and out-of-town cruisers to the Courtyard or to an out of downtown full service hotel when they are expecting a full service downtown hotel room.

Both projects also probably are going up with the city's money for another reason and it's called MacArthur Center. Sometimes I feel the city is spoiled with the mall simply because it tells them it's ok to subsidize projects because even though the tax returns will be lower than originally planned, the economic development that would spring up just because the building was built is much more worth it. Without MacArthur Center, none of this would have happened and I feel sometimes the city is banking on repeat success.

[New England Transplant]

I agree with the above. Yes, in the short term, incentives can seem like mindless give aways, but they do spur ripple effects that provide ongoing economic development. Cities, unfortunately, are a lot like companies now. They have to get creative and take risks to continue to gain market share and create new opportunities. I don't think we have to worry too much about Norfolk taking on too much debt. Recent history suggests that the city will continue to grow and prosper, even if the real estate market has softened a bit.

[Padman]

It's ye olde "zero sum game." Everyone else gives something away to get certain kinds of development, so we must also.

[erdogs]

Are there any links to this project? Who is the construction contractor? Should anyone care?

[vdogg]

June is turning out to be a popular month for construction this year. From the bottom of the pilot article that tombarnes posted in the Norfolk History thread:

To this point, anyway. Norfolk city officials say site preparation for the new hotel - which in time will mean bulldozers - should start at the corner in June.

[cpeakesqr]

*yawn*

[urbanlife]

June is turning out to be a popular month for construction this year. From the bottom of the pilot article that tombarnes posted in the Norfolk History thread:

[Sky06]

Well I will crap my pants from 3000 miles away if this actually happens in June.

[Dale]

My mom told me a watched pot never boils.

[vdogg]

Preservation groups protest for 3 buildings

Marchers gathered Tuesday at the corner of Granby and Main streets downtown, where three aging buildings are endangered by a hotel and convention center project.

The Save the 3 Coalition expected 50 people but left with 15.

It began at the Watt Rettew & Clay building, also called the Ikon building, which Rick Fischer and Nancy Pope regarded from across Granby Street before setting out.

"I wonder when they stuccoed the sides," Fischer said.

"I don't know," Pope answered. "There's a lot that can be preserved.... We don't want this to be plastic ville."

[Padman]

Here is an instance where some facade preservation (and maybe more) can benefit what looms as a potentially bland and unimaginative project. If Johnson had offered some iconic architecture, or even something as good as the Va Beach Westin, I might feel differently.

[Sky06]

Here is an instance where some facade preservation (and maybe more) can benefit what looms as a potentially bland and unimaginative project. If Johnson had offered some iconic architecture, or even something as good as the Va Beach Westin, I might feel differently.

[cpeakesqr]

I don't think this has been posted... but Norfolk's decision to destroy the historic buildings got some attention from a national organization back in April.

Preservation Trust

[cpeakesqr]

Blackstone Group buys Hilton Hotels for $26bn

Could potentially affect the Hilton project?

They typically buy up businesses they believe can fare better, with a view to improving their performances and eventually, selling them on for a profit.

[tombarnes]

While this is major news, I don't think the purchase of Hilton by the Blackstone Group will have major repercussions on the day-to-day operations of the hotel chain- at least at this point. There could be an eventual repositioning in some quarters, but Hilton has a pretty good balance of properties in its portfolio so far. I wouldn't look for major changes in its operations at this time.