Norfolk Hilton Project

[vdogg]

Hey Guys No I am not laughing I am sad BUT the mayor looked directly at me through non completely glazed over eyes..hehe and said 16 for the hilton and even went on to say the rumors of a 40 story office tower on plume are w/o merit.  another let down.

Remember as I dont need to remind you guys this is Norfolk Va not Dallas and I remember a conversation I had with Robert Stanton of Stanton Partners who developed 150 West main and about 1 billion dollars of other developments downtown since 1969...in this conversation he was speaking of harvey lindsays venture Dominion Tower, which by the way, is still the largest speculative office building ever built in Va outside of Alaxandria to date....saying" this building is not for Norfolk BUT for Dallas it will not make a profit for many years"  In reality it took 8 years to fill to 95% and the owners nearly went bankrupt to protect this asset.  He went on th explain Norfolk is a small city with large responsibilities and NOT a headquarters town."  end quote And Today I believe all developers downtown have the Dominion Tower Fear...

    To fill Dominion Tower w/ small companies took along time, and unless the development office is luring currently a company that will bring 2,000 plus new jobs its not going to happen.  Lets Hope they Are....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So if you know the mayor, when are they going to make an announcement of this publicly?

[vdogg]

And another quick question. If you know the mayor can you ask him exactly what his city manager meant by "significantly taller projects" ?

[rusthebuss]

I hope we aren't hyping all this up and all of these projects are not going to be anything that we expected.

[vdogg]

I hope we aren't hyping all this up and all of these projects are not going to be anything that we expected.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hope not too because i would lose faith in Norfolk if that were the case.

[rusthebuss]

I agree, if these projects are not that big why all the hush hush circled around these projects. Norfolk needs to entice companies to transplant HQ here, if not norfolk anywhere in the area.

[vdogg]

I agree, if these projects are not that big why all the hush hush circled around these projects. Norfolk needs to entice companies to transplant HQ here, if not norfolk anywhere in the area.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed, i mean a 16 story building, there? That would barely even make news at the oceanfront let alone DT Norfolk. If this does turn out to be true, which i'm pretty much 60/40 against this being true, then Norfolk has done itself a great disservice. To tell people to expect great things of them and then to turn around and present next to nothing....well...Lets just say it will take a long time to rebuild their image and the respect of the community. I hope they care about such things.

[rusthebuss]

i know dude, towering turtle do you hear anything from the mayor about the light rail project.

[lammius]

The whole Dominion Tower fear thing has to be examined in its historical context. The building was finished in 1988 or 1989. What happened to the economy in 1989? You guessed it--crash! The residential and commercial market went kaputz. You couldnt GIVE real estate away. What were interest rates on mortgages then? Something like 18-20%?

While office tower developments of that nature are always risky I think the Dominion Tower experience is a reflection of the period.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

In my 17 years in this world I've stayed at several Hilton Hotels around the world: in London, Berlin, DC, etc. If there would be over 10 rooms per floor (and in fact many more as it would be required if they built a 16 floor Hilton) those rooms would be very small. Also... if you think about it, what about the other amenities a Hilton has to offer? Spas, pools, gyms, cafes, lobbies, elevator lobbies, sitting areas and suites, to name a few. Those things take up considerable space and for a 250-room, full-service, luxury hotel, I'm not seeing it fit into a building that small.

I don't mean to discredit the source who provided us with the 16 floor idea, but still... I find it extremely hard to believe. If it is true, then Norfolk needs to get it act together because it's not only harmful to the hype it's created, but will waste possibly millions of investment dollars near the river in DT.

[vdogg]

The whole Dominion Tower fear thing has to be examined in its historical context.  The building was finished in 1988 or 1989.  What happened to the economy in 1989?  You guessed it--crash!  The residential and commercial market went kaputz.  You couldnt GIVE real estate away.  What were interest rates on mortgages then?  Something like 18-20%? 

While office tower developments of that nature are always risky I think the Dominion Tower experience is a reflection of the period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True, i forgot about that. And dominion tower wasn't the only one to suffer setbacks downtown during that time frame. Wasn't there even one building stuck in mid construction for a couple of years back then.

[vdogg]

In my 17 years in this world I've stayed at several Hilton Hotels around the world: in London, Berlin, DC, etc.  If there would be over 10 rooms per floor (and in fact many more as it would be required if they built a 16 floor Hilton) those rooms would be very small.  Also... if you think about it, what about the other amenities a Hilton has to offer?  Spas, pools, gyms, cafes, lobbies, elevator lobbies, sitting areas and suites, to name a few.  Those things take up considerable space and for a 250-room, full-service, luxury hotel, I'm not seeing it fit into a building that small.

I don't mean to discredit the source who provided us with the 16 floor idea, but still...  I find it extremely hard to believe.  If it is true, then Norfolk needs to get it act together because it's not only harmful to the hype it's created, but will waste possibly millions of investment dollars near the river in DT. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

25 million dollars of a probably 50 million dollar building is already too much for the council to subsidize in my honest opinion. But i eventually realized that they were doing the right thing because of the caliber of project and attention that would bring to downtown. The question has to be asked, why such a major investment in such a small structure? For that amount of money the city could build its own hotel of equal size and keep all the profits from it. This is simply beyond belief.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

I agree. Wasteful spending is nothing new to Norfolk (let alone the entire state...) but this is unbelievable. Maybe they're just joshin' us and they're ADDING 16 floors lol. I wish... but whatever. I guess we'll see?

[lammius]

Maybe Toweringturtle THOUGHT Fraim said 16 when he really said 60. Common mistake!

[PeninsulaKiddo]

Maybe Toweringturtle THOUGHT Fraim said 16 when he really said 60.  Common mistake! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HAHA. That would be pretty amazing! I'm just keeping my fingers crossed for now. *anxious*

[rusthebuss]

I don't know but i'm really getting pissed because i've been hyping all these things downtown and this is really disappointing.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

I don't know but i'm really getting pissed because i've been hyping all these things downtown and this is really disappointing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So have we bud, lol. Even if the Hilton disappoints the hell out of us, maybe we can maintain hope in the 35-40 story tower down the street and in the Granby/Brambleton area. Gotta keep the hopes up!

[rusthebuss]

Towering Turtle said that was a fake rumor(35-40), its really making me mad, i hope he is wrong and that the mayor was just telling him something that was false.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

...Growl. If I have no hope in Norfolk, then who can I have hope in? NEWPORT NEWS!?!?!? OH GOD..........

[rusthebuss]

I would like to have hope in this area as a whole. Whatever city we live in other city decisions affect us one way or another. I hope great things come to this area.

[wrldcoupe4]

Bigger isn't always better or smarter.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

Bigger isn't ALWAYS.... but sometimes it is. Prestige and the like has a lot to do with what would make a company or business relocate here. ...but my hope is sitting fairly low at the moment. But then again, who knows? Maybe some amazing project will pop up? Granby Towers was certainly a little unexpected and it's now an almost certainty.

[vdogg]

Bigger isn't always better or smarter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Everybody always says that, but c'mon. It's not necessarily always about being smarter, sometimes you just need to give people something to be proud of and inspire hope. This city has been on the skids for so long people really "needed" a project like this to believe that things like this are possible in Norfolk. It's a dissappointment, and had i had known that the project was gonna be scaled back this much i would have rather Norfolk waited for someone to come along who can deliver the project that this city deserves.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

Everybody always says that, but c'mon. It's not necessarily always about being smarter, sometimes you just need to give people something to be proud of and inspire hope. This city has been on the skids for so long people really "needed" a project like this to believe that things like this are possible in Norfolk. It's a dissappointment, and had i had known that the project was gonna be scaled back this much i would have rather Norfolk waited for someone to come along who can deliver the project that this city deserves.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said... The city is so incredibly underappreciated---some big projects, a few business relocations, and some civic pride would go a long way...

[wrldcoupe4]

Well said...  The city is so incredibly underappreciated---some big projects, a few business relocations, and some civic pride would go a long way...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree that civic pride is important and all that stuff but is that what developers are in the business of doing? They are in the business of developing projects and achieving profitability for themselves and their clients. Hilton could build a 50 story tower which would make a lot of people proud cuz they could say "Wow! look how big our new building is!" It wouldnt change the fact that you would have grave difficulty filling the hotel, so it would be a waste for everyone financially involved. There is a plan to convert the Miller&Rhoads building on Broad St in downtown Richmond into a fancy Hilton hotel. Originally, they wanted to put in 329 spacious hotel rooms. However, it became difficult to secure financing for the venture so the new plan is 225 hotel rooms and 100 condos. It's got to make sense. I'd take an architecturally and asthetically beautiful building over a really tall one anyday, thats all I'm saying. The cliche just seemed to fit.

[vdogg]

This is like having you're favorite team making it all the way to the finals, then losing by one point in double overtime. I almost wish this hadn't been posted. It makes the wait for the actual announcement that much more agonizing.