sports in norfolk

[spiker3]

But it is the potential revenue problems that are the cause of the lack of sports teams, not a lack of facilities)

I don't disagree at all, the economic situation/stability we have versus other cities as a result of the amount of government jobs is definitely a factor in a lack of sports teams, but i believe facilities plays into it. The idea that the Expos could have played at Harbor Park for 3 or 4 years while a new stadium would be built was laughable. The Hornets played at Scope or even the Ted was a joke. The Rhinos playing at the Scope was ludicrous. Revenue streams may be hard to come be due to the economic make up of the area but they'll be completely non-existent without the proper facilities to generate them. Smithfield will never buy the naming rights to Scope or Harbor Park or the Ted; it doesn't make fiscal sense. They could however purchase them for a new arena, ball field or race-track. I don't disagree the point, you're exactly right, but i feel that foresight in the 90's could have earned ourselves a major league team. When we went through the Rhinos fiasco, if Norfolk city council had realized our lack of facilities had prevented realistic consideration and financed a new building, we would have had a much much stronger shot at the Hornets, possibly even receiving them, or even the Sonics. (Hypotheticals are easy to talk about and i realize the political stupidity in this area building a 20K seat arena with no tenants)

On a sidenote, i finally went to see the 'Tides' play last night, and while a good crowd for a Saturday night ballgame, the product on the field was horrendous. When the majority of the crowd is rooting against the home team (granted it was the Paw Sox, Red Sox affiliate) and the home team wouldn't defeat a decent Class A club, what's the point? My friend asked me, why is it that every player is from Puerto Rico, Cuba or Central/South America (all but 1 of the starting line-up) Ken Young has done wonders for minor league sports in Hampton Roads, but this affiliate deal with the Orioles and Lightning are two of the worst sports decisions in the history of the area. I was embarassed to support a team with a manager who didn't seem to understand the fundamentals of baseball at times, or players who did the same. It may make sense from a business standpoint for Ken Young and the Orioles, but it is an embarassment to the area to have to support a team without an identity (black and orange uniforms, but the ballgirls, bat boys, Rip Tide, promotional materials are all the old blue and white schemes) a team that is incapable of winning, or a team that will produce any major league caliber players. As a young fan it was exciting to see Benny Agbayani, Alex Ochoa, players that looked successful, then watch tv that fall and see them producing and performing in the majors. Those were teams that won, and had a sense of self and identity. Last night was embarassing as a fan and as a student of the game.

I hope Ken Young made a truckfull of money with these deals. The Admirals never had a losing record in 19 consecutive years. We sign an affiliate deal with the Lightning and post the worse record in the history of the franchise. Next year is supposed to better with new owners, only time will tell. But unless Ken Young laughed his way to the bank, Hampton Roads got the short end of a very long stick, something that won't be changing in the foreseeable future.l

[scm]

Smithfield will never buy the naming rights to Scope or Harbor Park or the Ted; it doesn't make fiscal sense. They could however purchase them for a new arena, ball field or race-track.

I'm not so sure about that. There are plenty of piss ant arenas and ballparks with naming rights, so size of the market or the purchaser don't appear to be the determinant. Heck, there is even one named for a local Toyota dealer -- "Hall Automotive Ballpark at Harbor Park" anyone? If you made it low enough, anyone could and would buy it -- the question is, has Norfolk tried? If they have, why didn't they succeed? I can think of five good candidates right off the top of my head for a 10% finder's fee. Guess the mayor is too busy telling a hospital how to run their business to mess with marketing the naming rights to something he really has some control over.

[scm]

That being said...and its a rant so I apologize in advance, I think VA Beach should set their sights on an MLB team(long range), but more immediately on an MLS team. I say that for several reasons, the area is rich on soccer tradition and it is very popullar, it is considered "major leagu," tho not at the level of the big four sports, and it kind of gets the foot in the door, so to speak. Stadium construction would be cheaper, but still would provide another source of entertainment and excitement to lure people downtown. Plus, MLS does attract some crowds...Ill bet you could average close to 20k for games down there...that is pretty big time.

Why do you say that? First, only three teams in MLS averaged over 20K in 2007 -- LA, DC and Toronto. Second, and more dismal, in their last season in the USL, the VB team averaged 2,172 in attendance -- less than 1/2 of the league average. New MLS teams will start play in 09 (Seattle) and 10 (Philadelphia). MLS has a strong desire to put a team "south of DC" -- problem is that more likely means Atlanta or Miami (despite the failure of the Fusion in 2001), not VB (which probably isn't "south" enough). Also, strong support in St. Louis, which has a strong soccer legacy thanks to St. Louis University's dynasty.

When HR can make USL a success, then MLS might pay attention. Average attendance of 2K won't get you a team ahead of places that make sense because of TV markets (Atlanta, Miami, etc.), or USL support (Montreal, Rochester). The Mariners dismal track record makes a VB MLS team the longest of long shots.

[Sky06]

VB's "track record" with USL has been plagued by poor and constantly changing ownership. We have a team. Now we don't. Now we do. Not to mention the media's complete refusal to cover the Mariners (except when problems with ownership occur). I'd say, toward the end most of the games didn't even get mentioned in the Pilot. Not even a blurb. Too busy covering NASCAR.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Sky06

[scm]

VB's "track record" with USL has been plagued by poor and constantly changing ownership. We have a team. Now we don't. Now we do. Not to mention the media's complete refusal to cover the Mariners (except when problems with ownership occur). I'd say, toward the end most of the games didn't even get mentioned in the Pilot. Not even a blurb. Too busy covering NASCAR.

Well, which came first? The chicken or the egg? Did the poor coverage cause low attendance, or did the low attendance cause the poor coverage. I think the answer is in the not-too-subtle dig at the end. When 100K people show up for a USL game, then the coverage will outstrip NASCAR. Likewise the "poor ownership". If they were making money, because they had an adequate attendance, then perhaps they wouldn't have changed so often. Bottom line is that there never will be enough demand for USL, or MLS, to justify a team here, much less average in the top three in MLS attendance.

Heck, there isn't even a place to watch PPV games on Setanta like Summers in Arlington or any of the Fados across the country. How do you expect to have enough demand to justify a professional team?

Edited July 14, 2008 by scm

[Sky06]

Well, which came first? The chicken or the egg? Did the poor coverage cause low attendance, or did the low attendance cause the poor coverage.

This is the excuse the Virginian Pilot gives for ignoring local sports every time. Should the Pilot stop covering ODU sports if attendance went down? Should it only be concerned with ratings and not do the things every other newspaper in the world does? After all, I can assure you, despite attendance levels in those other MLS cities (i.e., besides LA, DC, and Toronto), the media still covers their teams. The Pilot, on the other hand, could care less about "our" teams--even when attendance is good (ODU rarely makes the front page). Their only concern is what's most popular. I got news for them. If I want to read about the Red Sox, the Spurs, or anyone else outside of Hampton Roads, I'll read something besides the Virginian Pilot. Or watch ESPN rather than the local TV sports. Those places are the only sources for HR sports, and they ain't doing it. My feeling is: Out of sight, out of mind.

I have to get this gripe out once a year.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Sky06

[deeznatz]

Why do you say that? First, only three teams in MLS averaged over 20K in 2007 -- LA, DC and Toronto. Second, and more dismal, in their last season in the USL, the VB team averaged 2,172 in attendance -- less than 1/2 of the league average. New MLS teams will start play in 09 (Seattle) and 10 (Philadelphia). MLS has a strong desire to put a team "south of DC" -- problem is that more likely means Atlanta or Miami (despite the failure of the Fusion in 2001), not VB (which probably isn't "south" enough). Also, strong support in St. Louis, which has a strong soccer legacy thanks to St. Louis University's dynasty.

When HR can make USL a success, then MLS might pay attention. Average attendance of 2K won't get you a team ahead of places that make sense because of TV markets (Atlanta, Miami, etc.), or USL support (Montreal, Rochester). The Mariners dismal track record makes a VB MLS team the longest of long shots.

An MLS team on Norfolk would be the only game in town, and I would not compare the USL with MLS. MLS games are on TV all over the place. And like I said, soccer is big in VA and Hampton Roads.

And I apologize for bashing Charlotte in my previous post.

Also, Richmond is home to Genworth Financial, Altria and Phillip Morris USA, Meadwestvaco, Circuit City, Carmax, ....it is not all government based. HR is a little more biased towards the government/military side, but what I am getting at it is that Rochmond and HR , to me, represent some very exciting, undoiscovered urban areas....each with its own special charms. HOw many other big cities on the east coast are so close to the Bay and ocean? It is a beautiful area and has a lot to offer.

But you are right, if we could get our jurisdictions to stop thinking bout themselves and realize that there is something greater to be had in a strong MA region, we could really get spmehwere. I won

t give up....VA is my home and I love all of it. Someday soon when I get my act together i am going to start a website to publicize richmond....load it with photos and info., and some sort of plan to market the Rochmond region and to take a little pride in it....which is severally lcking. NOt sure how, but I'm gonna do it.

[Sky06]

New Admirals couch announced:

Article

[NSUREDD]

Part of a very interesting atricle. I hope the ODU will rank very high in attendance.

Norfolk State football home attendance tops in MEAC

Norfolk State University is tops in HBCU football for accumulated home attendance in 2007. The Spartans are ranked #7 in the Division I Football Championship Subdivision ("FCS"), formerly called Division 1-AA, with 103,320 accumulated attendance for six home games. NSU average game attendance was 17,220.

Their home facility, William "Dick" Price Stadium has a seating capacity of 30,000 and was built in 1997. It is recognized as one of the largest sports and entertainment venues in the Hampton Roads region and one of the 10 largest Division I FCS football stadiums in terms of capacity.

NSU second largest home crowd was against former CIAA Division II rival Virginia State University in the season opener. The Spartans won 33-7 with 26,970 fans that was the third largest crowd in Dick Price Stadium history. It was also the 20th ranked highest attended game in the FCS for 2007.

What's more amazing is Norfolk State home football attendance out-performed long time established Division I programs at Jackson State, Grambling State University, James Madison, Montana State, Northern Iowa, North Carolina A&T, Tennessee State, McNeese State, Texas State, South Carolina State, Harvard and Florida A&M University, just to name a few.

Norfolk State University - Ranked #10 in the FCS in 2006 with seven home games, 83,871 accumulated attendance, with per game average of 11,982. The accumulated percent of stadium capacity was 39.94 percent.

In 2007, NSU is the highest ranking HBCU and is ranked at #7 in the FCS with 103,320 accumulated attendance, a 23.78 percent increase over the previous season. The per game average is 17,220, a 43.71 percent increase over the previous season or 5,238 more fans per game. The accumulated percent of stadium capacity was 62.17.

The Spartans are scheduled to play at Kentucky in 2008. They were beat 59-0 at #5 ranked Rutgers in 2007, but look forward to more games with 1-A BCS programs.

[brikkman]

The classic would be packed every year if it didn't rain most of the time. Althought he last few years have been pretty good.

It rained every year I was at VSU.....98-2002

That was also the years we were dishing out azz whoppins to NSU, LOL

[NSUREDD]

Them were some down days, no wonder God made it rain. LOL

[brikkman]

Good come back, but what do you have to say about the 11 years before that?

LOL

As I recall, constant azz whoppins.....LOL

[NSUREDD]

Brikkman, I can not remember those tragic days, your mind tends to block out the really bad things....HAHAHA!!

How are you guys looking this year?? You know the largest crowd in Hampton Roads history is a NSU VSU game?

[brikkman]

Brikkman, I can not remember those tragic days, your mind tends to block out the really bad things....HAHAHA!!

How are you guys looking this year?? You know the largest crowd in Hampton Roads history is a NSU VSU game?

We suck.............LOL

Big time........

and I never knew that for fact, I just assume that was the case...

I was born and raised in Norfolk and I never visited NSU until I went to VSU, I always found that interesting. I would simply drive by if that...Then, when I became part of the VSU family, you know I made it that way every time I came home to visit mom's and my son. I guess it help that came to hang with the "bruhz" as well....

[VAGATOR]

ODU needs to play NSU, Hampton, and William and Mary, it would be great for the region.

[NSUREDD]

VAGATOR, that would be a huge moneymaker for everyone. The only thing is that each school would have to have a home game. I can't see NSU playing ODU in Forman and ODU not wanting to come to Price. William and Mary will play in Price either next year or the year after. Will ODU want to play at Hampton?

[brikkman]

You would think that would be a go-go, HR with a third option for football..That would be huge..

Throw W&M, VSU and VUU (they maybe small but they kick major azz) in the mix, you would have a three ring circus...It would be great....

[NSUREDD]

It would be great but give everyone a home game. Do not think that the only place to play is Hampton Roads.

[Sky06]

ODU needs to play NSU, Hampton, and William and Mary, it would be great for the region.

It's going to happen. ODU is scheduling some cupcakes right now because they are starting from scratch.

[Sky06]

ODU Boasts Ten Alumni In 2008 Beijing Olympic Games

Meyers Coached USA Pitching Staff Has 0.88 ERA, Blanks Japan In 12 innings For FISU Gold Medal Win

Edited July 29, 2008 by Sky06

[mikeas]

Harbor Park is adding a 400 person party deck in right field. The deck will also move the wall in about 20 feet with hopes to generate more home runs.

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/12/tides-hope...run-harbor-park

[Merrittk92]

Harbor Park is adding a 400 person party deck in right field. The deck will also move the wall in about 20 feet with hopes to generate more home runs.

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/12/tides-hope...run-harbor-park

Cheesey.

[willy]

I don't see any "high tables" in the renderings. The first picture looks like it could double as the boarding deck to Apollo's Chariot or something.

[urbanlife]

a great way for a batter to take out a drunk. I wouldnt call it cheesy, it is quite a common thing for most stadiums...now I would call Giants Stadium in San Francisco a cheesy stadium big time...but that is a different story.

I really miss my Tides, we have a AAA team here in Portland, but the feel of the team and energy is nothing like the Tides.

[Chesapeake Pirate]

I wonder why it was designed to have just one level. It seems it would have been wise to have two or three. Just one step up for each level and so many more could be out there and actually be enjoying themselves and see the game too.