sports in norfolk

[urbanlife]

I personally do not care what type of team comes to Norfolk. I just want something everyone can get behind and be proud of and provides other things to do. I do believe that we could build enthusiasm behind getting a team and I believe it can be done in many ways. We do not have to build a new arena, but how about we build a sports entertainment complex dedicated to "sports". Local sports, regional sports and let it spawn. Those types of things will show the desire behind having a major league team, hell even if we only have the tides to rally behind at the moment.

But doing something like that would just make a redundant stadium. If it is enclosed, its number of seats would be a fixed number more or less (at least the maximum number of seats would be fixed.) So then the city would have four stadiums, this one, the Scope, Harborpark, and ODU's Convocation Center. Which this doesnt include the other sports complexes and stadiums in the rest of the region.

Although I will say it is possible that a risk like that can work, Oklahoma City is a great example of that with scoring the Seattle Sonics, but the risk that city took was huge, and with the exception of the Hornets using their stadium as a temporary home, the city took 6 years before they were able to court a basketball team to play there.

Of course there is the backfire of this as well, just because the city were to build something like this is no guarantee they would ever get a team. Norfolk is currently in a position to better itself and restrengthen its neighborhoods and downtown. Which I personally think should be the primary focus over a pro team. Though there is nothing wrong with the city setting aside land for a pro stadium and doing the work to court a team, as well as secure money from the state to help lure a team....though at the moment, I doubt any governor is going to set aside money for a pro team in this economy.

[oduengineer]

Referring to ronsmytheii's comment about the $$ would be better spent on developing SPQ or Fort Norfolk than on an arena/stadium

So, private investment is ok for your major league sports dream but not for anything else? C'mon man open your eyes. It costs a lot of money to have 8 football, 40 basketball/hockey, or 81 baseball games. Don't you see this? Private investment NEVER covers the expense associated with a sport that has a budget in the 100s of millions per year.

[varider]

Everybody would like different things. I think we cann all agree we want to make a better Hampton Roads. What major, respectable, big money metro do you know without a team? It's a neccessity, really. It would be the sole thing for all the seven cities to rally around.

[oduengineer]

Everybody would like different things. I think we cann all agree we want to make a better Hampton Roads. What major, respectable, big money metro do you know without a team? It's a neccessity, really. It would be the sole thing for all the seven cities to rally around.

I agree that we all want great things for the area . . . we live here. This isn't a big money metro, though. We are a Lousiville, a Salt Lake City, an Albany/Schnectady/Troy, a Mobile, a Birmingham, an Austin. I know a few of these places well and just because they don't have a major league team they aren't cruddy places to live.

I am such a geek that I check up on construction projects in Norfolk on a weekly basis. Hey, I lurk here a lot (just started posting). I love what is happening here and believe that we need to continue to build upon what we have. Most places would die to have what we have: beaches, historic areas, the world's largest naval base, steady employment, we all know this. We just need to be real careful before we wreck the local budget by supporting millionaire athletes.

[varider]

You've got to be kidding me.. We are a Albany? A Mobile?! A Birminham?! An Austin?! SaltLake?!

Hmm... We are more populated than each one of those, you can't compare a metro of 300,000 to a metro of 1.7 million. Honestly, I dont understand how financing a pro sports team would "wreck the local economy.." Air travel, hotel revenue, retail sales, transit ridership, etc. all go ^^^ when a pro team is in your city. Thousands of fans pack the hotels whenever there is a game.

[urbanlife]

You've got to be kidding me.. We are a Albany? A Mobile?! A Birminham?! An Austin?! SaltLake?!

Hmm... We are more populated than each one of those, you can't compare a metro of 300,000 to a metro of 1.7 million. Honestly, I dont understand how financing a pro sports team would "wreck the local economy.." Air travel, hotel revenue, retail sales, transit ridership, etc. all go ^^^ when a pro team is in your city. Thousands of fans pack the hotels whenever there is a game.

Actually Austin is larger and more organized of a city that Hampton Roads, plus there is Providence, RI which is also roughly the same size as Hampton Roads. Omaha is another great example of a big city without any pro teams...and Salt Lake has been a big mover lately with city growth, it is much more of an impressive city than you are currently giving it credit for. Also if we really want to get technical, there is also Las Vegas that doesnt have a pro team, but their gambling has been the biggest road block for them.

I know you want a team as bad as the next guy, but teams dont make or break a city...outside of sports, pro teams mean very little to most cities....go up to any non sports fan and ask them who their favorite team is and they wont care.

If Hampton Roads wants a team bad enough, then there needs to be push to get together enough of the wealthy people there to create an LLC company that is designed to go after a team and own them.

But in the current situation with the economy, I dont see any teams wishing to move that could effect their market, and there are not many teams looking to move right now besides the ones that are shuffling around in the Bay Area. (which I say that, not knowing anything about hockey or what their teams are feeling like.)

Another thing, I think the best shot Norfolk has at getting a pro team is going to be with the NBA because cities that the NBA is in with the NFL and MLB means they are third market teams and they would much rather be first or second market teams and to do that, they need to locate in cities that do not have a pro team....then if you throw in the really big cities that have more than one team in each sport, then it is even more so....take the Clippers, who watches the Clippers?? There are a ton of better teams then them in a saturated market....those are the teams that should be courted by the city and investors.

[varider]

According to wikipedia,

Our metro is larger than Austin's and Virginia Beach is more populated than Omaha....

I'm not saying either one is better than the other, but I just don't think one of the largest metro's in the south should be compared to all these smaller metro's.

We are a very big, relatively densely populated waterfront metro, will we ever start acting like it? VaBeach will come through. They are the bold enough ones to have in their Implemetation Plan a Sports Arena. "Virginia Beach Neptunes."

Edited October 16, 2009 by varider

[urbanlife]

According to wikipedia,

Our metro is larger than Austin's and Virginia Beach is more populated than Omaha....

I'm not saying either one is better than the other, but I just don't think one of the largest metro's in the south should be compared to all these smaller metro's.

We are a very big, relatively densely populated waterfront metro, will we ever start acting like it? VaBeach will come through. They are the bold enough ones to have in their Implemetation Plan a Sports Arena. "Virginia Beach Neptunes."

You really shouldnt knock on Austin, there is really only about a 50-200K difference between the two metros (depending on what census information you use). Plus if you look at the two metros, they have alot in common, meaning they both have larger markets within range of them to compete with when it comes to trying to lure a pro team. In Hampton Road's case it is DC, and in Austin's case it is Houston. But I dont know if Austin is trying to lure a team or not...there is a good chance that they are happy not having one. I am just saying that you shouldnt brush off regions because at first glance they seem like they have nothing in common, when in actuality, they have so much in common...which is what I always say when the topic of what should be done with Waterside comes up.

In the case of Hampton Roads, you have a collection of seven cities that all act and function like individual cities, there is little unity between them....thankfully rail will probably be the first step to really connecting the region and getting it to work together more.

But in the case of pro teams, you need more that just a populated city to attract a team, you need money and people willing to put up alot of money for a team. If there is a group of wealthy people in the region that wish to have a team or a wealthy owner that wants to be the primary team in a market, then Hampton Roads has a better chance of scoring a team, plan and simple.

If this is something you are passionate about, I suggest you look into what organizations that are currently together that are trying to luring people with money or teams looking to move and try to do your part in helping. And believe me, if there is a demand for a pro team there, there is going to be groups that are trying to attract them....I remember when I lived there, I knew the people involved with trying to attract a MLB team to the region. So you should really look into that, you might even find a career choice in it that really gets you excited.

[HopHead]

But in the case of pro teams, you need more that just a populated city to attract a team, you need money and people willing to put up alot of money for a team. If there is a group of wealthy people in the region that wish to have a team or a wealthy owner that wants to be the primary team in a market, then Hampton Roads has a better chance of scoring a team, plan and simple.

You've hit the nail on the head. The whole population argument for Hampton Roads is out the door if you don't have willing investors for a team. Someone has to pay for the players and the state-of-the-art facilities required to support the team, and in HR's case the multi-million dollar (probably north of $200 million for any of the big 4) entry fee that would be required to obtain one. After that, corporate sponsorships are huge. Then of course you have to not only have the population base that supports it, but a population base that has enough income to support the team. Sadly, sports leagues like the NFL have become a blue collar sport with white collar prices. That's why you seem teams like the Buffalo Bills playing games in Toronto because they can't make enough money in Buffalo alone. Living in Charlotte, I probably go to 2 - 4 (at most) Panther games a year. I'd like to go to more, but unless you know a PSL owner you'll get reamed by scalpers for tickets. I choose to put my $ in the NBA team here as it's much less expensive (aside from the fact I love basketball). I've suggested before that MLS would be a perfect league for the Hampton Roads area to get into. It's far less expensive than the other 4 major sports leagues and it has no presence in the Southeast. Not to mention it's growing in popularity. If the region could rally around them, it could definitely open the doors for other leagues down the road...

I agree with urbanlife in that varider should direct his passion towards some sort of pro-sports organization. You can never have too many advocates. Though, I wouldn't knock Austin either... It's a pretty cool place to be. Can't beat their music scene! And I'm pretty sure they are fine with their Texas Longhorns over a pro sports team...

[Achilles]

I was being sarcastic, but I didn't misunderstand varider. I don't see how it can be OK to develop a stadium with public money, but not retail/housing in underutilized areas. Both uses of the money have to be justified. And neither plan could be fulfilled without public money. I think you'd have your work cut out for you arguing that public housing in SPQ could be b'dozed and replaced with a stadium using public funds.

However, I'm pretty much not on board with this whole pro sports thing anyways... I think I made that clear in an earlier post. If it could be done painlessly through some kinda voodoo, then I say, "what the hell, do it!" But otherwise it's just not worth the hassle and the money IMO.

Alright, I gotcha. And, yeah, I agree that there must be some justification before any city money is used to build anything.

I agree that we all want great things for the area . . . we live here. This isn't a big money metro, though. We are a Lousiville, a Salt Lake City, an Albany/Schnectady/Troy, a Mobile, a Birmingham, an Austin. I know a few of these places well and just because they don't have a major league team they aren't cruddy places to live.

I am such a geek that I check up on construction projects in Norfolk on a weekly basis. Hey, I lurk here a lot (just started posting). I love what is happening here and believe that we need to continue to build upon what we have. Most places would die to have what we have: beaches, historic areas, the world's largest naval base, steady employment, we all know this. We just need to be real careful before we wreck the local budget by supporting millionaire athletes.

Actually, Salt Lake City has two pro teams: the Utah Jazz (NBA) and Real Salt Lake (MLS). And, if no one knows this, Virginia and Louisville used to have pro basketball teams in the ABA, which later merged with the NBA when the ABA folded. VA had the VA Squires which played in the Norfolk Scope, the Hampton Coliseum, and the Richmond Coliseum. Louisville had the Kentucky Colonels. We lost the Squires mainly because their manager was bad and decided to trade away fan favorites George Gervin and

Julius Erving to fellow ABA teams (and current NBA teams) the San Antonio Spurs and the New York Nets respectively. Had that not happened, fans would not have abandoned the Squires and we would probably have still had them.

Actually Austin is larger and more organized of a city that Hampton Roads, plus there is Providence, RI which is also roughly the same size as Hampton Roads. Omaha is another great example of a big city without any pro teams...and Salt Lake has been a big mover lately with city growth, it is much more of an impressive city than you are currently giving it credit for. Also if we really want to get technical, there is also Las Vegas that doesnt have a pro team, but their gambling has been the biggest road block for them.

I know you want a team as bad as the next guy, but teams dont make or break a city...outside of sports, pro teams mean very little to most cities....go up to any non sports fan and ask them who their favorite team is and they wont care.

If Hampton Roads wants a team bad enough, then there needs to be push to get together enough of the wealthy people there to create an LLC company that is designed to go after a team and own them.

But in the current situation with the economy, I dont see any teams wishing to move that could effect their market, and there are not many teams looking to move right now besides the ones that are shuffling around in the Bay Area. (which I say that, not knowing anything about hockey or what their teams are feeling like.)

Another thing, I think the best shot Norfolk has at getting a pro team is going to be with the NBA because cities that the NBA is in with the NFL and MLB means they are third market teams and they would much rather be first or second market teams and to do that, they need to locate in cities that do not have a pro team....then if you throw in the really big cities that have more than one team in each sport, then it is even more so....take the Clippers, who watches the Clippers?? There are a ton of better teams then them in a saturated market....those are the teams that should be courted by the city and investors.

You're right about Austin; even in the recession, it is one of the fastest growing cities in the nation ans is already the 15th largest city in the United States. However, they're only about an hour away from San Antonio, which already has an NBA team (the Spurs). And, if Austin did get anything better than an NBA, NHL, or MLS team, it would be rather unfair since Texas already has two MLB and NFL teams both about 3-3 1/2 hours away (and, yeah, I know California has like 3 NFL and 5 MLB teams, but that's because California practically takes up the entire West Coast). The Mariners are the only other West Coast team.

Providence and Vegas, though, are different. Providence may be the size of Hampton Roads, but they're a mere hour away from Boston and 3 hours from NYC. The nearest pro teams to Hampton Roads are in the Baltimore/Washington metro (3 hours) and Charlotte (6 hours). We have a decided advantage on that. Vegas doesn't need pro sports because sports other than poker really aren't a part of their culture (and gambling is an issue, like you said); although, that doesn't mean Las Vegas residents would refuse to support any teams that relocated/expand there. But Vegas has and always will be a part of pop culture and does not need teams to promote itself. Most people go to Vegas for one reason and one reason alone.

And, oddly enough, the Clippers get quite a few fans, mainly because they play in the same arena as the Lakers. If you look at the attendance of each of the various stadiums/arenas for each of the various pro sports on ESPN.com, you'll be pretty surprised by some of the figures you see. But, yeah, we need a group like I've been saying to court these pro sports leagues and attempt to bring teams here. If we keep trying, we're bound to get something.

Edited October 16, 2009 by Achilles

[varider]

Sacramento averaged, 12,571. Memphis, 12,745. Indiana, 14,182.Minnesota, 14,505. Charlotte, 14,526. Get the point?

Your telling me Virginia Beach/Norfolk couldn't blow those kind of numbers out of the water? I'd bet a million $$ that we would be in the top 10 in the first couple years at least.

Edited October 16, 2009 by varider

[rusthebuss]

Sacramento averaged, 12,571. Memphis, 12,745. Indiana, 14,182.Minnesota, 14,505. Charlotte, 14,526. Get the point?

Your telling me Virginia Beach/Norfolk couldn't blow those kind of numbers out of the water? I'd bet a million $$ that we would be in the top 10 in the first couple years at least.

You are missing the points they are trying to make. Look at those metros and the jobs they have. Guarantee they more high paying jobs and major corporate backing....Fans are only a minor part of bringing in a team...Population is a small part of it...its also the cable franchise.

[varider]

Well you guys are acting like our metro has no jobs, no big corporations, and it's full of poor people who cannot afford to pay $20- $30 to support a basketball team.

I don't understand it. Your (pl.) acting like im suggesting a team relocate to some honky tonk one horse town. We are a major metropolitan region!

[oduengineer]

Well you guys are acting like our metro has no jobs, no big corporations, and it's full of poor people who cannot afford to pay $20- $30 to support a basketball team.

I don't understand it. Your (pl.) acting like im suggesting a team relocate to some honky tonk one horse town. We are a major metropolitan region!

Did a quick search for tix to the Charlotte Bobcats and price level 2 tix cost $300. This level includes the inner/lower deck sections in the Time Warner Arena. I am sure that all tix in that part of the stadium don't cost this much, but this was the 20th row and not in the middle of the court. There are clearly more expensive tix than this.

I used to work in Raleigh and Hurricanes tix can easily cost $100 and it is very difficult to go less than $50.

Rangers tix and Knicks are a lot at the Garden (<$50 is rare/impossible).

These things aint cheap!

Edited October 17, 2009 by oduengineer

[varider]

Did a quick search for tix to the Charlotte Bobcats and price level 2 tix cost $300. This level includes the inner/lower deck sections in the Time Warner Arena. I am sure that all tix in that part of the stadium don't cost this much, but this was the 20th row and not in the middle of the court. There are clearly more expensive tix than this.

I used to work in Raleigh and Hurricanes tix can easily cost $100 and it is very difficult to go less than $50.

Rangers tix and Knicks are a lot at the Garden (<$50 is rare/impossible).

These things aint cheap!

I'm looking at the seating chart for Time Warner Arena and the most expensive tickets are $275. The upper level is $10-$35. The lower level is $40- $75.

Honestly guys that's not bad!! I paid $18 to watch the Admirals. I'd be willing to pay $40 to see "our" team.

Edited October 17, 2009 by varider

[urbanlife]

Well you guys are acting like our metro has no jobs, no big corporations, and it's full of poor people who cannot afford to pay $20- $30 to support a basketball team.

I don't understand it. Your (pl.) acting like im suggesting a team relocate to some honky tonk one horse town. We are a major metropolitan region!

No one is suggesting that, what is being suggested is that it takes those corporate backing to step up for something like this to come to town. If the corporate backing isnt there, then there is no team that is going to move there. Plus you have to pay attention to the population that is effected by the cable market and where their fan support goes to as well. Especially when you market is competing with the DC/Baltimore area and the Charlotte area. But with that said, I have always thought Norfolk could support a NBA team and Virginia Beach could support a MLS team.

Actually, I will even give you a positive story, in Spokane, Washington, they managed to score the National Ice Skating Championship, the one that helps pick the Olympic team for the US. Spokane beat out some very big cities including Boston. The reason for it was competition, the Ice Skating committee wanted to be in a city that would give them full attention and that is what Spokane did, the entire city became about this because that was all that was happening during the event. Hampton Roads would be the same effect for a NBA team, and even a MLS team (which is still a growing league.)

Is the state going to get a team tomorrow? No, five years from now? Probably not, but I would be surprised when the region does pick up a pro team because it is simply a matter of time....the issue is, who has the money to make it happen?

Norfolk was lucky to pass on two chances to get a pro team, both would of involved making a deal with George Shin who was a total sleaze and went on to screw over other cities.

But if you really want to find something to pass the time, you should look at all the different leagues and the teams with the lowest attendance...those are going to be the teams that are going to be more willing to move....unless they are in Pittsburgh, none of their teams will ever move.

[mistermetaj]

No one is suggesting that, what is being suggested is that it takes those corporate backing to step up for something like this to come to town. If the corporate backing isnt there, then there is no team that is going to move there. Plus you have to pay attention to the population that is effected by the cable market and where their fan support goes to as well. Especially when you market is competing with the DC/Baltimore area and the Charlotte area. But with that said, I have always thought Norfolk could support a NBA team and Virginia Beach could support a MLS team.

Actually, I will even give you a positive story, in Spokane, Washington, they managed to score the National Ice Skating Championship, the one that helps pick the Olympic team for the US. Spokane beat out some very big cities including Boston. The reason for it was competition, the Ice Skating committee wanted to be in a city that would give them full attention and that is what Spokane did, the entire city became about this because that was all that was happening during the event. Hampton Roads would be the same effect for a NBA team, and even a MLS team (which is still a growing league.)

Is the state going to get a team tomorrow? No, five years from now? Probably not, but I would be surprised when the region does pick up a pro team because it is simply a matter of time....the issue is, who has the money to make it happen?

Norfolk was lucky to pass on two chances to get a pro team, both would of involved making a deal with George Shin who was a total sleaze and went on to screw over other cities.

But if you really want to find something to pass the time, you should look at all the different leagues and the teams with the lowest attendance...those are going to be the teams that are going to be more willing to move....unless they are in Pittsburgh, none of their teams will ever move.

Va Beach tried a semi-pro MLS team (the Mariners) and it failed miserably. Hampton Roads has always been a major region of football and baseball atheletes. Even today, look at the Uptons, Wright, Zimmerman, and the entire Virginia Tech football team. There is a reason ODU football is having a good turnout. MLS will not work in Va Beach, no way no how. It may have the population to support it, but that is it. The interest is not there at all. It's not even really there in large cities like LA who brings in Beckham and has Donovan. The country is just not interested in soccer, and it won't be for a very long time. The region will be lucky to get one pro sports team, and that is most likely going to be an NBA team since there is a stadium semi-built (to be used initially) while another is built in its place.

[urbanlife]

Va Beach tried a semi-pro MLS team (the Mariners) and it failed miserably. Hampton Roads has always been a major region of football and baseball atheletes. Even today, look at the Uptons, Wright, Zimmerman, and the entire Virginia Tech football team. There is a reason ODU football is having a good turnout. MLS will not work in Va Beach, no way no how. It may have the population to support it, but that is it. The interest is not there at all. It's not even really there in large cities like LA who brings in Beckham and has Donovan. The country is just not interested in soccer, and it won't be for a very long time. The region will be lucky to get one pro sports team, and that is most likely going to be an NBA team since there is a stadium semi-built (to be used initially) while another is built in its place.

You do understand you could say this same speech about the rest of the US and NASCAR? Of course MLS is not there yet, neither is downtown Virginia Beach. The growth for MLS is going to happen in my neck of the woods first because MLS is becoming a big sport up here and the Portland Timbers already have a huge following before even going pro...the Portlands and Seattles of the country are going to be the ones to take on the teams and make them big. From there, it is up to the league to be able to create a push and drive for the league. LA was a mistake to begin with, that market is beyond over saturated with other teams.

from oregonlive.com

This is just a snap of what happens at every Timbers game where as a minor league team, we draw numbers that average around 12,000 and are expecting to bring in up to 20,000 a game when they go pro.

Also on top of that, the semi-pro MLS team that VB once had was nothing more than a AAA team of MLS. Plus to top it off they played at the Sportsplex, which gave it the feeling of being nothing more than just another minor league thing stuck off in the suburbs. If the city went to design an intimate soccer specific stadium within their downtown, it would hold a different purpose...there is a reason why most sports would rather be located downtown. The Tides are a great example of that since their move to Harborpark.

Edited October 17, 2009 by urbanlife

[oduengineer]

I'm looking at the seating chart for Time Warner Arena and the most expensive tickets are $275. The upper level is $10-$35. The lower level is $40- $75.

Honestly guys that's not bad!! I paid $18 to watch the Admirals. I'd be willing to pay $40 to see "our" team.

The exact $ value is not the point. The point is that these tix are a lot of green, and an investor in a team, much like an financier of a building, must believe that they are going to sell the tickets in order to finance a team here. That obviously hasn't happened.

Look at ODU football. Seasons passes are cheap ($120, I believe - less than basketball). Individual tix are $16 for the ones I got. They sell out. Simple formula.

And regarding your ticket prices - they are incomplete. Go to Ticketmaster, I found them and was one click from buying them. There are $300 tix and those that cost more (first rows, I guess). Perhaps there are $10 tix, don't know, but do you really think that a team can support itself on $10-$30 tix when they have plenty of $300 ones available?

[varider]

The exact $ value is not the point. The point is that these tix are a lot of green, and an investor in a team, much like an financier of a building, must believe that they are going to sell the tickets in order to finance a team here. That obviously hasn't happened.

Look at ODU football. Seasons passes are cheap ($120, I believe - less than basketball). Individual tix are $16 for the ones I got. They sell out. Simple formula.

And regarding your ticket prices - they are incomplete. Go to Ticketmaster, I found them and was one click from buying them. There are $300 tix and those that cost more (first rows, I guess). Perhaps there are $10 tix, don't know, but do you really think that a team can support itself on $10-$30 tix when they have plenty of $300 ones available?

What facts do you have to lead yourself to believe that nobody will buy $300 tickets? There's plenty of rich people from here..

[oduengineer]

What facts do you have to lead yourself to believe that nobody will buy $300 tickets? There's plenty of rich people from here..

You're kidding, right? Facts that something hypothetical won't happen . . . hmm.

I guess if you really wanted a fact that it hasn't happened, history proves it b/c we don't have any teams that charge that much.

But this is all beside the point. A team represents a massive investment, a risk. Someone (a large organizing body) has to invest, to believe may be a better phrase, that people WILL pay that much to see a team. It hasn't happened for a reason. I'm not saying that it couldn't or that it won't only that it is a big deal and maybe not in the best interest of our area.

[VAGATOR]

I don't care who does it, but this region needs a new arena. The Scope and Spaceship are utter embarrassments for a region of our size. I'm not even harping on the issue due to pro sports, we also miss out on concerts, NCAA events, and other potential events.

[mistermetaj]

You do understand you could say this same speech about the rest of the US and NASCAR? Of course MLS is not there yet, neither is downtown Virginia Beach. The growth for MLS is going to happen in my neck of the woods first because MLS is becoming a big sport up here and the Portland Timbers already have a huge following before even going pro...the Portlands and Seattles of the country are going to be the ones to take on the teams and make them big. From there, it is up to the league to be able to create a push and drive for the league. LA was a mistake to begin with, that market is beyond over saturated with other teams.

from oregonlive.com

This is just a snap of what happens at every Timbers game where as a minor league team, we draw numbers that average around 12,000 and are expecting to bring in up to 20,000 a game when they go pro.

Also on top of that, the semi-pro MLS team that VB once had was nothing more than a AAA team of MLS. Plus to top it off they played at the Sportsplex, which gave it the feeling of being nothing more than just another minor league thing stuck off in the suburbs. If the city went to design an intimate soccer specific stadium within their downtown, it would hold a different purpose...there is a reason why most sports would rather be located downtown. The Tides are a great example of that since their move to Harborpark.

I agree, the stadium's location did play a major factor in the feel of the team.

[hollise]

You're kidding, right? Facts that something hypothetical won't happen . . . hmm.

I guess if you really wanted a fact that it hasn't happened, history proves it b/c we don't have any teams that charge that much.

But this is all beside the point. A team represents a massive investment, a risk. Someone (a large organizing body) has to invest, to believe may be a better phrase, that people WILL pay that much to see a team. It hasn't happened for a reason. I'm not saying that it couldn't or that it won't only that it is a big deal and maybe not in the best interest of our area.

Hi to everyone, I have been reading posts on this blog for years and have never posted, but I just wanted to chime in on this one.

I can understand your arguments in regards to the investment risks involved in placement of a pro sports team, however, when was the last time that anyone sold any tickets of any price for a major league team which was located in Hampton Roads?

I believe it was during the period when the Norfolk Baseball Company was attempting to lure the Expos. Which we could have won if there hadn't been an overwhelming political tide to take the team to DC (which I believe was already

decided before the relocation was announced, however, this is for another topic).

Oduengineer, to test your hypothesis in regards to why the teams here do not charge the prices major league teams in other locales charge, do a comparison; check to see if the Charlotte Knights charge what the Panthers or Bobcats charge. That is a team that co-exists with two major league teams. Also, check to see if the Gwinnett Braves charge what the Atlanta Braves, Falcons, or Hawks charge. Again, even in this case, the major and minor league teams both co-exist with one another for the same sport in the same market.

Really, what it boils down to is that no one individual, group of individuals, or government has truly wanted to make the capital investment required to lure a major league franchise to Hampton Roads. Period. It

[oduengineer]

Oduengineer, to test your hypothesis in regards to why the teams here do not charge the prices major league teams in other locales charge, do a comparison; check to see if the Charlotte Knights charge what the Panthers or Bobcats charge. That is a team that co-exists with two major league teams. Also, check to see if the Gwinnett Braves charge what the Atlanta Braves, Falcons, or Hawks charge. Again, even in this case, the major and minor league teams both co-exist with one another for the same sport in the same market.

I think that you missed my point, maybe my bad. I am simply saying that someone in power (major political figure AND financial backers) has to believe that we (ppl in Hampton Roads) will pay that kind of $ for a team. It hasn't happened. Why do you think? Not exactly sure, but big league sports IS A GAMBLE, AN INVESTMENT - a gamble that no one is willing to take in HR. In markets where teams suck, the gamble is often a big loss.

I'm not saying that it is right or wrong, its just that ppl in power don't believe in us. Maybe if we sold out Scope at the Admirals/Tampa game, or Harbor Park regularly, or had corporate sponsors throwing $ around, or whatever. But it hasn't happened. That should be the call to action to we little folks. Make what we have sparkle (sell out stuff) and maybe something will happen.