sports in norfolk

[varider]

I think that you missed my point, maybe my bad. I am simply saying that someone in power (major political figure AND financial backers) has to believe that we (ppl in Hampton Roads) will pay that kind of $ for a team. It hasn't happened. Why do you think? Not exactly sure, but big league sports IS A GAMBLE, AN INVESTMENT - a gamble that no one is willing to take in HR. In markets where teams suck, the gamble is often a big loss.

I'm not saying that it is right or wrong, its just that ppl in power don't believe in us. Maybe if we sold out Scope at the Admirals/Tampa game, or Harbor Park regularly, or had corporate sponsors throwing $ around, or whatever. But it hasn't happened. That should be the call to action to we little folks. Make what we have sparkle (sell out stuff) and maybe something will happen.

We sold out Harbor Park when the Orioles played the Nationals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When the Admirals were good Scope would sell out, they lose too much nowadays. But I do agree with you that selling out what we do have would send a strong message to the powers to be.

Harbor Park averages about 7000.. Seats 12,000. Sell that baby out day after day and I think the MLB would take a strong look at Norfolk again.

[Achilles]

Hi to everyone, I have been reading posts on this blog for years and have never posted, but I just wanted to chime in on this one.

I can understand your arguments in regards to the investment risks involved in placement of a pro sports team, however, when was the last time that anyone sold any tickets of any price for a major league team which was located in Hampton Roads?

I believe it was during the period when the Norfolk Baseball Company was attempting to lure the Expos. Which we could have won if there hadn't been an overwhelming political tide to take the team to DC (which I believe was already

decided before the relocation was announced, however, this is for another topic).

Oduengineer, to test your hypothesis in regards to why the teams here do not charge the prices major league teams in other locales charge, do a comparison; check to see if the Charlotte Knights charge what the Panthers or Bobcats charge. That is a team that co-exists with two major league teams. Also, check to see if the Gwinnett Braves charge what the Atlanta Braves, Falcons, or Hawks charge. Again, even in this case, the major and minor league teams both co-exist with one another for the same sport in the same market.

Really, what it boils down to is that no one individual, group of individuals, or government has truly wanted to make the capital investment required to lure a major league franchise to Hampton Roads. Period. It's not to the say the money is not here or in the region to support the team. You would be surprised at the amount of money in South Hampton Roads alone. Take for example that Phish concert several months ago at the Hampton Coliseum. People were paying upwards to $2,000 for individual tickets from scalpers for a single evening concert. Now, I wouldn't pay that much for any concert, however, my point is that people will pay for what they want or demand. If you talk about corporate sponsorships, it's simple. If the newly created team is marketed as a 'Virginia' team which it should be, then go other parts of the state such as Richmond or Northern Virginia to get those sponsorships. At least Richmond if not Northern Virginia. Richmond alone has enough corporate power to bring in those sponsorships. Now would be a good time since the 'Skins are doing so bad to lure those Northern Virginia sponsorships away. Might actually make them play better, but that's another topic as well.

Also note that if locals did not have such a lackadaisical attitude in regards to such, the locals would insists a on a local club. For example, if a major population boom occurred here due to people relocating where teams were established, then a club would form here, either through relocation or expansion. Raleigh is a good example of this. If they hadn't had a major population boom, they wouldn't have an NHL team. For that fact, no one would have ever heard of Raleigh except for being the state capital (Not to put Raleigh down or anything).

I believe the real issue is that the "powers at be" locally do not want a major league team because their control would be lost to outside forces. However, this is just my opinion.

I think that you missed my point, maybe my bad. I am simply saying that someone in power (major political figure AND financial backers) has to believe that we (ppl in Hampton Roads) will pay that kind of $ for a team. It hasn't happened. Why do you think? Not exactly sure, but big league sports IS A GAMBLE, AN INVESTMENT - a gamble that no one is willing to take in HR. In markets where teams suck, the gamble is often a big loss.

I'm not saying that it is right or wrong, its just that ppl in power don't believe in us. Maybe if we sold out Scope at the Admirals/Tampa game, or Harbor Park regularly, or had corporate sponsors throwing $ around, or whatever. But it hasn't happened. That should be the call to action to we little folks. Make what we have sparkle (sell out stuff) and maybe something will happen.

I agree with hollise the most because he sums up my argument for pro sports in Hampton Roads (and why we lack them), but I also believe oduengineer has some valid points. Getting local people to invest in a team/stadium will be difficult, but if they were willing take a risk for the Expos, they'll probably be willing to take a risk for other teams.

We sold out Harbor Park when the Orioles played the Nationals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When the Admirals were good Scope would sell out, they lose too much nowadays. But I do agree with you that selling out what we do have would send a strong message to the powers to be.

Harbor Park averages about 7000.. Seats 12,000. Sell that baby out day after day and I think the MLB would take a strong look at Norfolk again.

Of course, they would, kiddo. What's more is that, this past season, the O's and the Nats (even though they're my teams unless Hampton Roads gets a team of its own) were the worst teams in their leagues. The Nats had back-to-back 100 game losing seasons, and the O's were about 32 games behind the Red Sox for the Wild Card race at the end of the season, I believe. I'm not sure if the Lighting/Admirals game sold out either, but that would definitely be something to look into. I also am pretty sure the Grizzlies/Wizards game in Richmond sold out. If you see where I'm going with this, you'll understand that we've been selling out (yeah, I know Richmond's not a part of Hampton Roads, but we still have a lot of things in common with them, and Richmond is kind of like a brother/sister to us in some ways) for some of the worst teams in their leagues (the Tampa Bay Lighting is rather pitiful and so are the Grizzlies and Wizards). Could you imagine how well we could do with actual major league teams that actually play well?

Another thing I'd like to add is that, even if not everyone in Hampton Roads wants to see a lot of games (or any games) for any pro teams we can get here, you have to remember that not everyone who sees such games are locals. During the summer, when tourism is at its peak here, we could get tourists to come see MLB games (or MLS) and, during the fall/winter/spring, if we have NFL, NBA or NHL teams, we could attract more tourists than ever before in our region's "off-season." Heck, I went and saw a Rays game when my friends and I drove down to the Tampa Bay area this past summer.

Speaking of which, you might want to look into the history of the Rays, since they built Tropicana Field a few years before they even knew they were going to have an MLB team for it. Seriously, look into the history of Tropicana Field, and you'll see what I mean; it's a lot like what we're talking about now. I just wish some of the local "rich-and-powerful," Hampton Roads politicians/officials, etc. around here were reading the comments on this site. Guess we'll just have to take the comments to them.

[varider]

Old Dominion is now 5-2 after a W against Campbell in a chllly 40 degree mist. The Monarchs sold out Foreman Field @ SB Ballard Stadium for the 5th consecutive game.

Norfolk State blew out Hampton University in the annual "Battle of the Bay" game. 46-6.

The Admirals are now in last place. Way to start out the year. "Heartbeat of Hampton Roads?" Yeah right. Record: 2-4.

[dday3232]

http://www.wtkr.com/news/wtkr-norfolk-shar...0,3665586.story

Looks like Norfolk is getting a basketball team!!

[varider]

I'm hyped up about it, I don't even know why lol. It's not the NBA. But we need to sell out every game and show the NBA what's good.

[usermel]

Just WOW, simply WOW! Hope it works out(ABA team)!!!!! L.G.N.M

[varider]

Yeah, If we were to sell out Scope for an ABA team (highly unlikely), the NBA would be knockin' on our door for an expansion team.

[urbanlife]

Yeah, If we were to sell out Scope for an ABA team (highly unlikely), the NBA would be knockin' on our door for an expansion team.

It is all about media, if it is advertised right, there is a good chance they could fill the Scope...nonetheless, it would be a great place to catch a basketball game.

Though looking at the amount of teams in the ABA, it definitely looks like a minor league...though a league I havent heard about before, so is this a new league?

[varider]

I've heard of the old Virginia Squires, but I think this is a different, newer version of that ABA and not nearly as prestigous(sp.?)

After looking at how many teams there are, I don't feel like it's that big of a deal anymore. I'd rather have a D-League team. But I'll support whatever comes through the 757.

[Achilles]

I was really excited about this at first...until I looked at the teams. The good news is, a majority of those teams are located in big cities that also have NBA teams, and thus, we will be able to see teams from those cities come to Norfolk and play. If we're lucky and give this team a lot of support and maybe someday a new, pro-sized arena, we might be able to convince the NBA to make our ABA team an NBA team like the Spurs and the Nets were in the late 70s.

Though looking at the amount of teams in the ABA, it definitely looks like a minor league...though a league I havent heard about before, so is this a new league?

According to Wikipedia, the new ABA's been around since 2000, but I've noticed a lot of their teams are in big cities. If the ABA can convince the NBA that the ABA's enough of a threat, then we might be able to get Norfolk's team into the NBA.

I've heard of the old Virginia Squires, but I think this is a different, newer version of that ABA and not nearly as prestigous(sp.?)

After looking at how many teams there are, I don't feel like it's that big of a deal anymore. I'd rather have a D-League team. But I'll support whatever comes through the 757.

Considering the Pilot and the Daily Press didn't cover it yet, I don't think it is. I think this will be better than a D-League team, though. You never know; it might grow up someday.

[mikeas]

If the ABA can convince the NBA that the ABA's enough of a threat, then we might be able to get Norfolk's team into the NBA.

Don't be silly. There will not be an ABA team joining the NBA. In the 1970s it was a merger of two leagues much like the AFL and NFL.

A successful ABA franchise may be a deciding factor in NBA expansion or movement.

[brikkman]

Well, I am thinking for our structure, it will probably flop. I say that because in my 30 years in living in this area, I noticed one consistent thing, we are a 0 to 60 region. We do not want to "build-up" to things, we want all or nothing. Yes it does give us another source of entertainment, but it is not one of the major sports out there, they will not support it like it needs to be. I thought arena football would do well considering how different it was in general from the NFL, it flopped. I notice with regards to a lot of things, if it is not 60, we tend not to be fully engaged with it. I have yet to make it to a tides game, I do not like baseball, but that is not why I do not go. I usually just push my attempts to the side and say

[mikeas]

I know the city had given the Admirals a lease of $1 for some period of time to attract the AHL level team here. They may offer something similar to the ABA if it looks like a good business decision.

[varider]

That's a good point. I doubt Norfolk will charge them that much for one night's rent. I can see maybe $5000. But #13000!? Highway robbery.

Personally, I'm tired of being a minor league town.

I don't think many people will go watch them. I've never even heard of this new ABA. What's the point of it? I WaNT THE NBA

[Achilles]

Don't be silly. There will not be an ABA team joining the NBA. In the 1970s it was a merger of two leagues much like the AFL and NFL.

A successful ABA franchise may be a deciding factor in NBA expansion or movement.

Yeah, I know that. This ABA is nowhere near the status of the old ABA. Plus, the NBA has been established in the public mind for so long that it is the only league people will support for pro basketball in the U.S. I read into this new ABA some more and came to realize that. The old ABA, at least, had a better chance back in the 70s like the 1959 AFL did in the 60s.

As much as I want this franchise to be successful and getting the NBA to expand here, I cannot. All I can say is that something is better than nothing. I believe we discussed that the Scope needs to be used more in this thread, so I think this will help.

[brikkman]

Not to kick around a dead topic, but I got the wondering what the hell was "GREEN BAY" today and started doing some research. Green Bay has a population of approx 100,000. Although this franchise was created decades ago, they still manage to keep their metro small. I did not know the NFL operated in small markets like that.

[varider]

Crazy right?? Chesapeake has a higher pop. than Green Bay's entire metro.

But the town actually bought the team back in the '20s

The Packers are now the only publicly owned company with a board of directors in American professional sports

Man, I knoww we can support a team.

[urbanlife]

Green Bay has been apart of football since the beginning, they are the only small team to still have a team. It is a miracle that they managed to keep a team for that long and the fact that it is a city owned team and the fans are such diehard fans, that I am guessing Green Bay will always have the Packers...but dont count on anything like that ever happening today...I double anyone was being paid much in football when the Packers were formed. It was a different era of sports then.

This could fall into the what ifs? What if the Norfolk Squires joined into the NBA when they had the chance, then Norfolk would of been one of the smallest markets in the NBA to have a team today and probably would have some serious diehard Virginia fans supporting them.

[usermel]

Great point about the Virginia Squires.Had they gave VA a franchise in the NBA and Norfolk Squires had survivied long enough we would view things in a whole new way. May have led to Norfolk being a bigger city(being known nationally via pro teams help visibility,ask Salt Lake City and Charlotte) in 2009. Norfolk has always had an almost got situation over the years. Smething about our area just hasnt been able to attract the best of the best over the years in terms of sports and entertainment.

Our area hasa laid back sensibility about it that may need to change to attract todays big business because large cmpanies look for places tht have extra activities available were the locate and the big draws are sports teams and Charlotte in 1989 when they got the Hornets got there ball rolling. I feel we are to close to D.C and Charlotte and have to big a Redskin fan base for the NFL. Basketball would be the best of all choices along with hockey which I think may get the most support if we could pull it of. Maybe we can start a Pro for Hampton Roads group that collects money and organizes a metro support group that raises funds for a arena and or baseball stadium to attract a sports team. Maybe we can, who knows!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[HopHead]

^Something to be noted about Charlotte and how they got the Hornets. Back in the mid-80s when the NBA expansion talks were under way, Charlotte was in competition with many cities to get a team and considered a long shot by some. However, the city's "ace in the hole" was the new Charlotte Coliseum that was under construction at the time. Back then it was considered state of the art and had the largest seating capacity (24,000) of any arena in the league. That ended up going a long way to help luring the team, along side the Carolina's passion for basketball. Of course, like most things in Charlotte, we don't like to keep things around too long. So the venue was demolished in 2007 ... Though, I can't complain about the new venue too much.

With all that said, other cities like Kansas City are already ahead of the curve with their new venue... I believe Las Vegas is now considering a brand new arena in hopes of landing an NBA or even NHL franchise. For Norfolk/VA Beach's case I don't think it's a case of "build and they will come"... It's more like "build it and hope they will come". At least that's what KC is already doing. I'm not sure that having a new venue already under construction or having plans of a new arena will do. There probably needs to be a new state of the art one available already.

[usermel]

^Something to be noted about Charlotte and how they got the Hornets. Back in the mid-80s when the NBA expansion talks were under way, Charlotte was in competition with many cities to get a team and considered a long shot by some. However, the city's "ace in the hole" was the new Charlotte Coliseum that was under construction at the time. Back then it was considered state of the art and had the largest seating capacity (24,000) of any arena in the league. That ended up going a long way to help luring the team, along side the Carolina's passion for basketball. Of course, like most things in Charlotte, we don't like to keep things around too long. So the venue was demolished in 2007 ... Though, I can't complain about the new venue too much.

With all that said, other cities like Kansas City are already ahead of the curve with their new venue... I believe Las Vegas is now considering a brand new arena in hopes of landing an NBA or even NHL franchise. For Norfolk/VA Beach's case I don't think it's a case of "build and they will come"... It's more like "build it and hope they will come". At least that's what KC is already doing. I'm not sure that having a new venue already under construction or having plans of a new arena will do. There probably needs to be a new state of the art one available already.

Great info dbull75. Charlotte has alot going on and has for years now. The skyline looks amazing and has grown since my last visit in 2003!!!! Great town and thanks for the info sir, hopefully we can turn into a pro city as Charlotte has been for 20 years!!! L.G.N.M

[urbanlife]

I am a sports fan, but I have never been sold on the idea that stadiums and pro teams brings profits for the city. I have always been a supporter of the idea that the team should be the ones building their own stadiums...much like how the movie industry is involved in privately run theaters. Though I am aware how nice it is to root for the home team, just as long as they arent trying to lie about all the benefits they bring a city...pro teams are strictly entertainment value.

I would rather see Norfolk take the amount of money that would go into a stadium and funnel it back into the city through other means, such as a local streetcar routes, urban renewal fund districts that are designed to keep the money local to that neighborhood, and such. Now if the city were to work up a deal with the State of Virginia to secure money to help build a stadium in order to attract a team, I would be fine with that as long as they are not hiding behind any pro development labels because more often than not a stadium is stuck in the middle of a sea of parking or the city and state have to inject alot of money into the area around it and create a mall like effect in hopes that it is successful, which more times than not these things never pencil out...it has taken well over 30 years for Portland's Rose Quarter to become some entertainment mecca and it is still a dead zone with all its parking lots and garages.

I can see a stronger argument for using money to attract companies, urban renewal developments, improving infrastructure such as rail, bus, and walkability, but I do not think a large stadium helps bring these things. If it did the building of the Scope would of created a buzz to the city and the area would be filled with people.

[varider]

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/12/norfolk-bids-get-caa-womens-tournament-scope

Norfolk + ODU bid to bring the CAA Women's basketball tournament to Scope Arena.

And I love this picture, looks to be from back when the Admirals went to the playofffs back to back years!

[varider]

Word on the street is the Jacksonville Jaguars could be moving sometime soon.They can't fill the seats.

Boy would I wish they'd come here. We have almost half a million more people than that area.

[carolinaboy]

Word on the street is the Jacksonville Jaguars could be moving sometime soon.They can't fill the seats.

Boy would I wish they'd come here. We have almost half a million more people than that area.

Yeah, but there are a few things going against the area IMO:

No stadium or plans for a stadium in place, too close to DC, Charlotte and Baltimore.

If they move, they will go to LA, Chicago or maybe OKC.