sports in norfolk

[rusthebuss]

Good. More power to them then. Just ask anyone in Montr

Edited June 8, 2005 by rusthebuss

[rusthebuss]

I also heard that the Marlins are not moving and made a deal with Miami awhile back, is this true or where did you get your info from?

[johnhowell]

Well you don't live here anymore and we want a team, what people don't see is that what it helps to bring in, buisnesses. It also brings in jobs to the market. It will also help make the area more urban and  more things to do in the city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The promoters have been using the lie "it will bring in buisnesses" for years and people still buy it for some reason. It is a fact, major league franchises hurt the city more than they help. But still, I'd like to see a MLB team in Norfolk.

[rusthebuss]

The promoters have been using the lie "it will bring in buisnesses" for years and people still buy it for some reason.  It is a fact, major league franchises hurt the city more than they help.  But still, I'd like to see a MLB team in Norfolk.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It does bring in more business. More hotels are built and it attracts more people to the areaand spend money in the city that might not have before the team arrived. Its also a tourist attraction. It also adds beauty to the city's landscape.

[johnhowell]

I also heard that the Marlins are not moving and made a deal with Miami awhile back, is this true or where did you get your info from?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've heard nothing of the kind. This should keep you busy: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=marlins+stadium

[hoobo]

Well you don't live here anymore and we want a team, what people don't see is that what it helps to bring in, buisnesses. It also brings in jobs to the market. It will also help make the area more urban and  more things to do in the city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How does do pro sports do that? Well, besides the jobs associated with the team. What business does it bring? Why are cities like New Orleans, Pittsburg, Baltimore, Buffalo and DC shrinking? Why are cities like Birmingham, Tuscon, and Austin doing just fine? I highly doubt that when a company is thinking of expanding or relocating they base their decision on whether or not a city has pro sports. The main impediment to business capture is Richmond. But that's another story.

Raleigh has the Carolina Hurricanes. I'm sure lots of people outside the NHL think that team is in Charlotte. New Orleans has two sport teams and is New Orleans, yet their economy blows and they have a lower per capita income than HR. Buffalo also has two teams and their economy is tanking.

Pro sports is a matter of pride and identity. A company is not going to move here based on one team. There are plenty of cultural, recreational, and sport attractions that figure more prominently into a relocaiton decision.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see an MLB or NBA team move to HR, but not if it means mortgaging a city to do so. A stadium financed privately or with "but for" taxes is the only sensible method. Diverting other funding sources is bad economics since the returns won't make up for it. I rather see VB and Norfolk spend tax money on MacArthur Center, TC, or the Amp which are creating positive cash flow for the cities. A stadium/arena create no net cash flow and may even produce a negative flow.

[rusthebuss]

I truely believe a company does look at things to do for write offs and things to do in a city. Alot of those cities you noted are doing bad because steel jobs went over seas! And the teams help make the markt more attractable to businesses

Edited June 8, 2005 by rusthebuss

[hoobo]

It does bring in more business. More hotels are built and it attracts more people to the areaand spend money in the city that might not have before the team arrived. Its also a tourist attraction. It also adds beauty to the city's landscape.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hotels? Aren't most spectators from the area? As for spending more money, isn't that what MacArthur Center, Granby St, Waterside, and Ghent in Norfolk and the Strip, Lynnhaven, and TC at the Beach are for? I'm curious of what the net return from the Cruise Terminal will be compared to what a proposed stadium/arena would be. I visited SBC Park and Oriole Park in the off-season while I was in those cities. They were empty. The areas around them were empty. They do add beauty, that I won't argue against. I won't argue that cities don't gain from increased restaurant business (i.e. meal taxes), but this is a low-paying industry. How do more low paying jobs help the economy?

[rusthebuss]

I guess the teams that have 3 games series sleep in the bus???? Also it will attract some tourists and they have to stay somewhere! Alot of sponsors are from Major Businesses and they need write offs and alot of companies do deals over major league sports by taking them to complementary games in the sky boxes! I understand what you are saying but those places have had teams there for awhile and you see other factors effecting their local economy and you see people leaving the city for the burbs as well!

Edited June 8, 2005 by rusthebuss

[hoobo]

That's what I'm saying. HR has attractions. It has the Tides, the Mariners, the Admirals, opera, ballet, the Amp, golf courses galore, fancy dinner clubs, etc. It's not like a pro team is filling a void; it is only adding to what's there.

Philly has 4 pro sport teams. Why didn't NS move there? Because Norfolk ponied up the money. That's what this area has to do. Even Chicago put up the money to lure Boeing away the other relocation sites: St. Louis and Dallas. Tax incentives, not luxury suites, are what companies care about. A million dollar tax write-off vs a $100,000 business write-off. Take your pick. That's their bottom line.

I'd like to see a new arena to replace Scope so the Admirals have a real rink to play on. As long as it is done at a reasonable cost. Then convince Stern to put a team there instead of Baltimore, St. Louis, or KC. Just don't sell the city to do so.

Edited June 8, 2005 by hoobo

[rusthebuss]

That's what I'm saying.  HR has attractions.  It has the Tides, the Mariners, the Admirals, opera, ballet, the Amp, golf courses galore, fancy dinner clubs, etc.  It's not like a pro team is filling a void; it is only adding to what's there. 

Philly has 4 pro sport teams.  Why didn't NS move there?  Because Norfolk ponied up the money.  That's what this area has to do.  Even Chicago put up the money to lure Boeing away the other relocation sites:  St. Louis and Dallas.  Tax incentives, not luxury suites, are what companies care about.  That's their bottom line.

I'd like to see a new arena to replace Scope so the Admirals have a real rink to play on.  As long as it is done at a reasonable cost.  Then convince Stern to put a team there instead of Baltimore, St. Louis, or KC.  Just don't sell the city to do so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I understand what you are saying and i agree to its as well but you are comparing a lot larger market to a smaller one with not that much to offer. All that I'm saying is that when a company looks at the area it something to offer them in the complete package. I don't want them to sell the city either.

[rusthebuss]

The thing with NS was the Gov. Warner was trying to put some ridiculous tax on them and they threaten to leave and pack up and go to Philly and Warner decided not to impose the tax. My dad has worked for NS for 30 years now.

[Merrittk92]

With our luck the Marlins will move to Charlotte.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The irony is not lost on me. However, Charlotte already has 2 pro teams (NFL, NBA) and wouldn't be able to support a 3rd for some time.

Good. More power to them then. Just ask anyone in Montr

[Glassoul]

The irony is not lost on me. However, Charlotte already has 2 pro teams (NFL, NBA) and wouldn't be able to support a 3rd for some time. 

    No doubt! Pro franchises are huge investments with debatable returns. As for owners, well I think (with one exception) that they are all self absorbed Prima Donnas. I wouldn't argue with anyone who felt that diverting precious funds from a cities infrastructure to obtaining a Pro franchise was both needless & frivolous. Having said that, I (speaking as a confessed "get a life baseball fan") would do it in a heart beat. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Baseball is my favorite sport as well, but for anyone to argue that there is a substantial economic benefit to an area when a city/state has to provide substantial portion of the funding doesn't understand economics. It is as someone else said, more a matter of civic pride. Look at the battle in New York city, the mecha of pro sports, where the Yankees (I don't understand why they want to leave Yankee stadium anyway), Mets, and Jets can't get new stadiums, especially enlighenting for the latter, since that even has the added value of a tie-in with New York's Olympic bid. The reality at the moment is that if HR wants a major league franchise, then they are going to have to fork over some serious cash, and I think there are much better uses of the city's capital and borrowing credit.

Russ, I doubt very much that there would be strong public support for Norfolk to pony up $250+ million for a new stadium. Have a clear referendum on it. We'll see how strong the public support in Norfolk is for a pro franchise.

And be careful what you wish for. Jeffery Loria is an asshat, plain and simple. When he arrived in Montr

[hoobo]

I understand what you are saying and i agree to its as well but you are comparing a lot larger market to a smaller one with not that much to offer. All that I'm saying is that when a company looks at the area it something to offer them in the complete package. I don't want them to sell the city either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is that why Forbes ranks HR the 8th best area to do business? HR ranks #45 in Culture and Leisure, ahead of Charlotte, KC, Columbus, Nawlins, Las Vegas, Memphis, and Nashville, and just behind Tampa (#44). Why can't HR market that instead of dwelling on a lack of a pro sports franchise?

[rusthebuss]

I don't know how HR was ahead of Charlotte, KC,and especially LV. Where did you get those stats from? There is nothing that people recognize us for. Example: Memphis- Bar-b-q and blues, LV-casinos and other things. Nashville-country music and HR-???? oh thats right the Navy. The Navy really brings negative thoughts to our area and doesn't bring high paying jobs to the area!

Edited June 9, 2005 by rusthebuss

[Merrittk92]

Is that why Forbes ranks HR the 8th best area to do business?  HR ranks #45 in Culture and Leisure, ahead of Charlotte, KC, Columbus, Nawlins, Las Vegas, Memphis, and Nashville, and just behind Tampa (#44).  Why can't HR market that instead of dwelling on a lack of a pro sports franchise?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great idea! One could lead to the other.

[rusthebuss]

Honestly the only way we could ever get the recognition that we deserve is the major league sports team! I think NBA would be better for us due to the fact the city would have the ablility to use the arena all year around and could have college basketball tournaments here for like NCAA or ACC. They could have concerts there and such as well.

Edited June 9, 2005 by rusthebuss

[hoobo]

Honestly the only way we could ever get the recognition that we deserve is the major league sports team! I think NBA would be better for us due to the fact the city would have the ablility to use the arena all year around and could have college basketball tournaments here for like NCAA or ACC. They could have concerts there and such as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

An arena is definitely a more feasible idea which is why I support that option. The Admirals are already there and their attendance will grow. Scope is a dump and has horrible sightlines for hockey. An arena like you said would bring in concerts that go to MCI and Charlotte. There are other events like the circus and ice skating events. ACC is doubtful but NCAA is defintely a good possibility. So is the CAA tournament.

As for how are we better than those other cities: Vegas is a dump. Leave the Strip and take a look. There is nothing to do for residents. It's a great tourist town. Compared to the other towns, HR has a cultural base: opera, museums, history, nightlife, etc. It also has boating and the beach not to mention great state parks. That is what goes into the ranking, not ribs or tall buildings. You're looking at those cities from a tourist standpoint. Try looking at them from a resident standpoint, and they're nothing special. L.A. is no better than HR is now. Pointing out what each city is known for brings up a good point: marketing. HR is the birthplace of America. The first English settlement, the first permanent English settlement, Yorktown, Williamsburg, Cape Henry, the biggest naval arsenal. Why do kids know of Plymouth Rock but not Jamestown? HR and Virginia need to promote themselves as America. Where were Washington (Commander-in-Chief), Jefferson (Declaration), and Madison (Constitution) from? Why does Maryland get the blue crab? Isn't most of the Bay in Virginia? Kitty Hawk had the Wright bros. People forget this. Memphis isn't known for the Grizz, it's known for ribs and blues. Nashville isn't known for the Titans and Predators, it's known for country music. Is Jacksonville any better with the Jags? Market this area and HR will be known. Anyway, as my post said, I got the numbers from Forbes business magazine. Here's the link:

Forbes best places for business

Edited June 9, 2005 by hoobo

[rusthebuss]

An arena is definitely a more feasible idea which is why I support that option.  The Admirals are already there and their attendance will grow.  Scope is a dump and has horrible sightlines for hockey.  An arena like you said would bring in concerts that go to MCI and Charlotte.  There are other events like the circus and ice skating events.  ACC is doubtful but NCAA is defintely a good possibility.  So is the CAA tournament.

As for how are we better than those other cities:  Vegas is a dump.  Leave the Strip and take a look.  There is nothing to do for residents.  It's a great tourist town.  Compared to the other towns, HR has a cultural base:  opera, museums, history, nightlife, etc.  It also has boating and the beach not to mention great state parks.  That is what goes into the ranking, not ribs or tall buildings.  You're looking at those cities from a tourist standpoint.  Try looking at them from a resident standpoint, and they're nothing special.  L.A. is no better than HR is now.  Pointing out what each city is known for brings up a good point:  marketing.  HR is the birthplace of America.  The first English settlement, the first permanent English settlement, Yorktown, Williamsburg, Cape Henry, the biggest naval arsenal.  Why do kids know of Plymouth Rock but not Jamestown?  HR and Virginia need to promote themselves as America.  Where were Washington (Commander-in-Chief), Jefferson (Declaration), and Madison (Constitution) from?  Why does Maryland get the blue crab?  Isn't most of the Bay in Virginia?  Kitty Hawk had the Wright bros.  People forget this.  Memphis isn't known for the Grizz, it's known for ribs and blues.  Nashville isn't known for the Titans and Predators, it's known for country music.  Is Jacksonville any better with the Jags?  Market this area and HR will be known.  Anyway, as my post said, I got the numbers from Forbes business magazine.  Here's the link:

Forbes best places for business

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Those teams have even brought more recognition to those areas. You hear alot more about those cities now that those teams are there. It helps to bring your area up in coversation and it also gives someone a chance to say I might go visit that area and check it out. You really didn't hear too much about Memphis and Jax until the teams came around and brought them up in conversations that normally they wouldn't have been discussed in.

[Mike D]

Those teams have even brought more recognition to those areas. You hear alot more about those cities now that those teams are there. It helps to bring your area up in coversation and it also gives someone a chance to say I might go visit that area and check it out. You really didn't hear too much about Memphis and Jax until the teams came around and brought them up in conversations that normally they wouldn't have been discussed in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For Jacksonville, yes, the Jags and Super Bowl 39 have created more buzz about the city. But Memphis? Memphis was well known for blues, ribs and Elvis - long before the Grizzlies moved there from Vancouver. But I do agree that a sports team might help create more buzz about Norfolk. I also agree Norfolk's best chance of landing a pro sports team is with the NBA. The NFL wants to get back into LA and MLB doesn't seem to like taking chances markets unless another team is already there.

However, I think that before the City tries to lure a pro sports team to Norfolk, it has to establish itself some more and become better known for the things it already has. I think Hoobo makes a great point that HR has to market its strengths to make the area become better known. A pro sports team is a great asset, but if Norfolk wants to get one, the City has to be able to convince the team owner(s) why Norfolk is the best place for them to be.

Edited June 12, 2005 by Mike D

[hoobo]

So the MEAC is moving its offices from Greensboro to VB. Now if Norfolk can steal the CAA from Richmond and if HR can make an effort to rob Greensboro of its more famous college sports conference HQ, then HR will be king. King, I say.

[rusthebuss]

So the MEAC is moving its offices from Greensboro to VB.  Now if Norfolk can steal the CAA from Richmond and if HR can make an effort to rob Greensboro of its more famous college sports conference HQ, then HR will be king.  King, I say.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where did you hear this out? That would be cool if these tournaments happened here!

[urbanfan]

Where did you hear this out? That would be cool if these tournaments happened here!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it was in the Daily Press yesterday. I remember reading about it somewhere also, just can't remeber where.

[urbanfan]

So the MEAC is moving its offices from Greensboro to VB.  Now if Norfolk can steal the CAA from Richmond and if HR can make an effort to rob Greensboro of its more famous college sports conference HQ, then HR will be king.  King, I say.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You would think that they would move to a city that actually has MEAC schools. Norfolk or Hampton. This just means that people (outsiders) see this area as a whole.