Virginia Beach Development

[vdogg]

Yet another highrise that almost was for the oceanfront

I kinda like this, funny how it slipped under the radar screen until its demise.

[mistermetaj]

Yet another highrise that almost was for the oceanfront

I kinda like this, funny how it slipped under the radar screen until its demise.

It's painful to see how many great developments could be on the ocean front. Instead of this we're settling for a low rise with ten condos. It does give me hope for the future though. With so many proposals for the dome site, I hope more than one can be used and just placed on another plot of land.

[RJWGMU]

Beach Convention Center, Dome Site Plans Move Forward

[hoobo]

I'd love to see the AH and HoB/LiveNation proposals team up for this thing. VB would have the only HoB between Myrtle and AC and be one of only a dozen HoBs in the country. Then again, it would compete with local upstart: the NorVa

[scm]

Actually, density is as much of a factor than height in the APZs, they really don't want a bunch of people living under their flight paths. Now if this were to focus on hotel, office, and entertainment only we may be able to come up with something that's acceptable.

Well, since this project isn't anywhere near an APZ, then if the Navy tries to impose their will, VB needs to tell them to screw off. The dome site is well south of any published flight path (see the AICUZ maps). I love the idea of a HOB coming here!

Of course, just ask the folks in Croatan if the published flight paths are routinely ignored............

[Henry_Ryto]

Well, since this project isn't anywhere near an APZ, then if the Navy tries to impose their will, VB needs to tell them to screw off. The dome site is well south of any published flight path (see the AICUZ maps). I love the idea of a HOB coming here!

Of course, just ask the folks in Croatan if the published flight paths are routinely ignored............

The Dome site falls within 65-70 decibels.

[Padman]

The Dome site falls within 65-70 decibels.

Yes, but the City and the Navy have reached an agreement to allow generally higher densities in the resort area than in other 65-70 db areas.

[RJWGMU]

Offices Rise on Last Bit of Pembroke

The paper had a picture of the building... Doesn't seem very impressive; only 3 stories, 60K square feet... Just another large foot print short waste of space, but for a short one I thought it looked okay...

[vdogg]

VBDA accepts convention hotel plan

[scm]

The Dome site falls within 65-70 decibels.

True, but meaningless. The 2005 Statement of Understanding between the City and the Navy says "The City understands the Navy position is now, and has been, that residential development in areas of 65 dB DNL and greater is discouraged..." If you look at the AICUZ standards, it says that that "Commercial, Retail and Services" are compatable uses in the 65-70 DNL zone.

Again, if the Navy tries to block a commercial development like a HOB on the Dome site, then the City needs to tell them to screw off.

S/ former Naval Aviator, who, as one of my friends says, has "gone over to the dark side"

[vdogg]

Has Va. Beach given too much to the Navy?

Yes, and I am happy to see that council is finally starting to see the light. Compromise is fine but I think they've gone way to far. I have no desire to see our city under semi-military rule when it comes to local decisions.

[mistermetaj]

I wish the city would just follow the navy's guidelines. I for one don't want to be under the navy rule and would be just as happy to see Oceana go, however if council is desperately trying to keep Oceana, why not use their guildelines to our advantage. There are so many homes and businesses directly in the high decibal zones that the city could try to force to move or offer incentives to move to another location. I know one of Oceana's biggest complaints has been Lynnhaven mall and the surrounding business developments all down Lynnhaven Pkwy. If the city could coax all the businesses (And the post office is down there too) and the mall to move to town center, we could really change the way people live and work in Virginia Beach and really spur development of town center and the pembroke business district for years to come.

We would have a very happy Oceana with lots of vacant land to fly over, and have a much more dense and pedestrian friendly town center with great shopping and dining. Not to mention there would be a huge demand for affordable urban housing by town center as well. Add in all the new office space that would be required in the area just from the whole Lynnhaven Pkwy area having to move to the area if Va Beach (Pembroke) designated for business developments.

Then, with the vacated land, why not turn it into a green spot and a huge park or forrested area. Or add more farms. I always hear older people complain that Va Beach used to be beautiful farm land, and now it's nothing but sprawl. So here is a chance to change everything for the better. We'd have our much larger central business area around town center separated from our oceanfront by large farms (and probably 20 more golf courses) and connected by light rail. We'd still have suburban living down great neck road and shore drive, and and all around town center, urban living in town center, and rural living in the navy's flight path, all within a 5 min light rail ride from each other.

I know the idea is extraordinarily farfetched and completely unreasonable, but that is what I think would create the perfect situation for the city. Lynnhave Pkwy is the key to TC success and keeping Ocean IMO.

[urbanlife]

crap, am I "older people" now? I just turned 30 and even I remember back when much of virginia beach use to be farmlands. Actually that would be a strange practice for suburban lands to be converted back into farm and wood lands. Granted I am not sure that is possible and with the current size of VB, I think that is merely a dream now.

I think the Navy is going to have to accept the fact that the city is changing and becoming more dense and if they dont like that they could easily move the base to a less populated area, but to be forewarned that where ever they move that base, traffic and people will follow.

Also I think it is long overdue for the city council of VB to put together a task force to restructure the city. Over the years of sprawl it has not stopped to address its failing infrastructure, and in the city's current state, will not be able to handle its continued growth. Paris did something very radical when it created its avenues of Paris, I think it is time for VB to start having that kind of mindset...maybe not with avenues, but thinking at least on how to restructure transportation and commuting.

[scm]

Also I think it is long overdue for the city council of VB to put together a task force to restructure the city. Over the years of sprawl it has not stopped to address its failing infrastructure, and in the city's current state, will not be able to handle its continued growth. Paris did something very radical when it created its avenues of Paris, I think it is time for VB to start having that kind of mindset...maybe not with avenues, but thinking at least on how to restructure transportation and commuting.

Much of the cry for "change" in this year's elections is just political "hay making", but some of it is in a fundamental realization that the last fifty years of ever expanding suburban sprawl, and all that goes with it, just isn't working. Quality of life means not spending a hour each way driving to work. What good is a house that you spend half a day every weekend maintaining. What would you gain, financially, if safe, reliable, comfortable public transportation meant you only had to have one car in your household? Why should you care if you lived in a 2,500 sq. ft. flat on the third floor, if there was a beautiful ten acre city park within walking distance? What would you gain, if we had high speed rail so that DC was an hour and a half away, and it was powered by nuclear generated electricity -- with no carbon impact? All of that is what Parisians enjoy today.

Problem is making it happen in VB. Unlike Paris, Myra is not Napoleon III. In fact, she is barely Jim Holley. Second, the laws that permitted Haussmann to acquire and level sections of Paris to build the boulevards that make it what it is today, can't exist now in the US. And third, and probably most powerful, the real money interests in VB -- the Sandlers, the Napolitanos, etc. -- don't know how to make money unless it is in greenfield development. Paris is a city that not only is great to visit, but also works for its residents (based on four months living outside there) -- and that is worth duplicating.

[urbanlife]

"Unlike Paris, Myra is not Napoleon III."

but aren't they about the same height?

Oh I know the type of boulevard thinking that happened in Paris isn't going to happen in VB, but you do understand what my point is. Virginia isn't that big of a state, it would be nice to see it act as a whole when it comes to the shaping of its cities and countryside. I guess I have always had very high expectations for VB and Virginia, and over the years, they both seem to always fall short of those expectations.

[scm]

I guess I have always had very high expectations for VB and Virginia, and over the years, they both seem to always fall short of those expectations.

You may have higher expectations for VB than it has for itself. I think VB is perfectly content to define itself as "at least, we're not Norfolk or Portsmouth". Look at all of the negative comments from VB residents anytime anyone wants to do something to better either city. There is a sincere lack of leadership when Meyera can be "mayor for life". There are so many great things to be done in VB -- but it starts with a vision, and that is sincerely lacking.

PS -- LOL about the Meyera and N III comparison!

[RJWGMU]

Article about the Dome site at the Oceanfront.

Texas Company Favored to Redevelop Beach's Dome Site

[urbanvb]

Doubletree seeks to be hotel for Beach convention center

The owners of the Doubletree Hotel along 19th Street will submit a plan to be the headquarters hotel for the Virginia Beach Convention Center.

[urbanlife]

that makes sense, they would really have to up their game with what they provide to the convention center.

[hoobo]

They'd have to upscale the name. It needs to be a Hilton (which owns Doubletree), Westin, Hyatt, or Marriott. I think Hilton is out since they have a branded property a few blocks away. Westin is out since there's already one in VB and soon to be one in Norfolk (?). So that leaves Hyatt and Marriott. Hyatt has teamed with Garfield Traub. I'm guessing that AH will team with Marriott. So that leaves Doubletree. I don't see them winning this. You'd have an A convention center and a B convention hotel.

[vdogg]

53 mil for a renovation and two new hotel towers sounds pretty...umm...cheap. I shudder to think what the final product will look like.

[urbanvb]

There is now a rendering on Pilotonline. Well, from what I can tell it doesn't impress me all that much. One thing is sure if it is built it will be absolutely huge with 568 rooms. How might this compare with other hotels in the area?

[vdogg]

Wow, this Garrison proposal is stunning. I think Garfield Traub may have met its match. At 400 rooms, this is the perfect size too. Just what we need to step up architecture at the beach.

[urbanvb]

yeah, I like that proposal too. Even the Hyatt's proposal with it's modern flair is interesting as well.

[RJWGMU]

Wow, this Garrison proposal is stunning. I think Garfield Traub may have met its match. At 400 rooms, this is the perfect size too. Just what we need to step up architecture at the beach.

Here is the overall problem I am seeing...

1) Doubletree is just that, Doubletree... The city will likely no pick them for good reason (not enough brand name).

2) AH's design is not released, but they do not have a hotel brand picked yet and the city I think would want to know who they would work with before picking them.

3) Garrison is in the same position as AH without a hotel name... Both AH and Garrison would likely have to change their hotel design, as the high end brand names design their hotels carefully.

4) The Hyatt deal is likely the winner because it is high end (ehh, debatable) and has a good design. I am weary however of "building in phases" because that usually means build one like planned then scale back the other...