Hampton Roads Transportation

[Locos]

Man i love Richmond (Rich-town), even though iam not from there b/c, it has an urban feel to it. For ex, one time i had to drive up-there to get my birth certificate and i can remeber cruising through downtown on Broad Street around rush hour, the traffic was not a joke, but still that's what urbanity is all about people jamming the streets leaving from one place and trying to reach another. I was amazed b/c i never been in the heart of Richmond before (at least i can't remember).

I can also remember the many geryhound bus trips i have taken and the bus taking me through different parts of Richmond via interstate and i can remeber seeing mid-rise and some high-rise residence buildings all throughout the area. So that is why Richmond is exciting to me b/c it gives one that fast paced city living, look, and feel and not that slow paced country twain to it. yee-haw

How about that, I said something decent about Richmond!

[PeninsulaKiddo]

Man I've never seen so much Richmond bashing from our neighbors to the east in my life..... where do I begin?

"Orrr, why would you do the same in Richmond where it's really not needed? While Richmond may be a "weighstation" along 95, it's arguably got the best traffic along it from the VA/NC border all the way to Portland, Maine."

-First of all, it does not have the best traffic along 95. I know because I live there. 295 helps make 95 through the city a better drive than if 295 was not there. Without 295, I guarantee it would be muuuch worse. Secondly, what do you mean by weighstation? How many other cities with MSAs of 1 million+ are "weighstations"?

"I totally agree with you. Richmonds proposing another roadway for them and they will probably get state financing."

-Which roadway is this? It is known that Richmond will not be getting anymore free roads like 288. Anything that is proposed is a toll road, or part of a toll road, which will be built by private partnerships. Some public money would go to a road, perhaps because it is part of the governments responsibility to maintain infrastructure.

"The are a wanny be big city without the population to back and building roads they don't need."

-This statement is just out right ignorant. Nobody is trying to be a wanna be big city in Richmond. I can't really even respond to this ill-advised comment because it is so ridiculous.

"Let Richmond build their beltways and sprawl out, further killing their center city."

-The center city is getting stronger by the day. I really have no idea what you are talking about. You should check out the Richmond forum and read all about it. The suburbs have expanded, just like every single other metro in this country. There is also a great deal of gentrification of older neighborhoods in the city and inner suburbs. The "beltway" if you want to call it that was important for a multitude of reasons.

For god's sake, bashing Richmond and constant self pity won't make the transportation issues in Hampton roads get any better or become resolved. Strong organizations that present a united front for a region can help. I always hear people complain about the lack of regional cooperation in HR. I bet real regional cooperation couldn't hurt in trying to resolve the transportation issues of HR. Accepting tolls as inevitable couldn't hurt either. One real disadvantage the HR has for transportation is the sheer cost of providing the adequate infrastructure given the difficult topography of the area (waterways, peninsulas, etc). I definitely think something should be done to alleviate HR of its traffic woes. It could start to take a toll on quality of life and other issues, should it not be improved. I don't think any one area should be favored in this state over another area. I'm also disappointed in the unfounded attacks above. I really like the HR area. Perhaps positive discussion about the issues that really matter in HR transportation could yield positive results.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It may be hard to believe, but I do not haaaaaaaate Richmond. I have nothing against it at all, but when you look at population and dollars funneled into the state government, I think there should be some correlation to how much money comes back. That's all I'm saying. About the traffic in Richmond though... c'mon. It's not that bad. I drive through there frequently and have been the length of 95 several times. Can Richmond compare to DC-Baltimore? Wilmington-Philly? NYC? BOSTON? I mean, Richmond--like any medium-large city--has its hellish days, but every morning I drive from Williamsburg to Hampton and every day I want to cry. Just... cry. Long rivers of tears. While HR has horrendous disunity and contempt for eachother within our region (and it really does NOT help our situation) at the same time we're embittered that we've become sort of the castaways of the entire Commonwealth. I just hope that maybe one day we'll get glory and recognition for something worthwhile. Maybe a high rise? Maybe a revolutionary transportation system (HAHAHAHA)? Who knows? Richmond just needs to get a kick in the butt every once in a while to realize that we still exist out here on the tidal plains.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

And maybe yes there's slight resentment because you have a cooler skyline than Poquoson but that's beside the point!

[PeninsulaKiddo]

wrldcoupe, I wasn't bashing Richmond, just sprawl.  When you build nice highways out into the hinterlands development follows.  The highways provide nice easy access and the areas around them become attractive.  Soon comes congestion and eventually another highway, allowing more people to move farther out.  Richmond and many other cities are turning their downtowns around but the bulk of growth is still on the exurban fringe in nearly every MSA in the country.  You can make a nice attractive and vibrant downtown/CBD and adjacent neighborhoods.  But what are the areas between there and the inner ring suburbs like?  I know next to nothing about Richmond but in all too many cities the answer is they're not doing so well.  A shiny downtown is a nice asset but a vibrant or excelling city it does not make. 

In that spirit I was attempting to tell these HR people not to lust for new highways and sprawl.  If people in HR recognize that because of the lack of highways it would take them 60 minutes to get to Norfolk from a vinyl house in Suffolk the older home in Portsmouth may be worth rehabilitating.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, I keep flippin' posting, but the last part of this I found interesting and worthy of comment. "If people in HR recognize that because of the lack of highways it would take them 60 minutes to get to Norfolk from a vinyl house in Suffolk the older home in Portsmouth may be worth rehabilitating" I totally agree and I think that HR's continued hatred of inner-city redevelopment needs to stop. There are only so many acres to develop in Suffolk and Chesapeake and other areas and while those areas are growing up and up, the inner cities (parts of Norfolk and definitely Portsmouth) are suffering. I think DT Norfolk's resurgence will help to curb that trend though---at least I hope it does in some way.

[okinawatyphoon]

It may be hard to believe, but I do not haaaaaaaate Richmond.  I have nothing against it at all, but when you look at population and dollars funneled into the state government, I think there should be some correlation to how much money comes back.  That's all I'm saying.  About the traffic in Richmond though... c'mon.  It's not that bad.  I drive through there frequently and have been the length of 95 several times.  Can Richmond compare to DC-Baltimore?  Wilmington-Philly?  NYC?  BOSTON?  I mean, Richmond--like any medium-large city--has its hellish days, but every morning I drive from Williamsburg to Hampton and every day I want to cry.  Just... cry.  Long rivers of tears.  While HR has horrendous disunity and contempt for eachother within our region (and it really does NOT help our situation) at the same time we're embittered that we've become sort of the castaways of the entire Commonwealth.  I just hope that maybe one day we'll get glory and recognition for something worthwhile.  Maybe a high rise?  Maybe a revolutionary transportation system (HAHAHAHA)?  Who knows?  Richmond just needs to get a kick in the butt every once in a while to realize that we still exist out here on the tidal plains. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that is very well said. I too don't hate Richmond, and to be honest, I wasn't aware of the seeming "unfairness" when it came to money spent and received for various projects. Now that I think about it, whenever I would go on 95 there would be no traffic, but as soon as I would get on 64 near Newport News, there was gridlock all the way to Chesapeake. The solution I think is simple: begin a massive network of light rail throughout the region. That way, a new tunnel does not have to be built and roads won't have to be expanded much because there will be less traffic on them. Just my opinion though.

[rusthebuss]

When it comes to population and the need, Richmond will get the money over us. It is a known fact. The money for the state is not divided equally by the population. The state will give money to Richmond over NOVA. I lived in Richmond and followed things that were going on there and my inlaws still live up there and keep me informed. Even the mayor of Richmond said that the Norfolk area was being neglected by the state and that the state needed to pay more attention to this area.

[wrldcoupe4]

There is no all wise and powerful genie that sits atop the capitol dome deciding that Richmond or NOVA or anywhere else should get more money than Hampton Roads. Why don't the elected officials that represent HR locally and at the state level do more for their constituency when it comes to transportation? It's easy to say, "ohwell all the transportation problems in HR are Richmond's fault. They get better roads than we do." Where is the accountability of the elected officials of HR whose responsibility is to fight for and promote the types of transportaion initiatives that are necessary for HR?

[Locos]

Wrldcoupe4, you could not have said that any better, we should not hate on Richmond b/c their elected officials are finding more ways to divert money from the state into their local budget than HR elected officials, we should be hating on the HR elected officials that can't get the job done for what ever their reasons maybe for not getting enough money to fund HR projects of all sorts. So instead of complaining about what Richmond does and does not need, we need to be complaining about our elected officials not getting their jobs done by not allowing our region (HR) to prosper b/c they are not getting the adequate amount of funds from the state or the feds.

[urbanfan]

Wrldcoupe4, you could not have said that any better, we should not hate on Richmond b/c their elected officials are finding more ways to divert money from the state into their local budget than HR elected officials, we should be hating on the HR elected officials that can't get the job done for what ever their reasons maybe for not getting enough money to fund HR projects of all sorts. So instead of complaining about what Richmond does and does not need, we need to be complaining about our elected officials not getting their jobs done by not allowing our region (HR) to prosper b/c they are not getting the adequate amount of funds from the state or the feds.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Couldn't have said it better, and I am from Hampton Roads.

However just a thought. I was thinking about this the other day. I think we should scrap the third crossing as it exists. Build a real third crossing between the two existing run it over craney island and on to 264 at this point follow 264 to 464 and follow 464 to the new 168. By doing this we can finally have 64 run through the region to the north carolina border in a direct shot, no more culdesacs. Change the 664 and exist. 64 designation up to the new 64 to 264 much like larger cities have one loop (295, 495, ...) Then the exist. 264 designation changes to I44 once again except that I44 runs from the ocean front all the way to I95 via rt. 58. This gives the region another direct access to I95 other than the roundabout I64. That will simplify our highway system here. We will have two main interstates I64 and I44 and a loop system in case traffic is bad. Also, that finally gives peninsula residents and travels up north a direct access to Downtown Norfolk without having to drive thirty minutes around the region. What do you think?

[rusthebuss]

First, when you ask about us in general our elected officials do fight but we are fighting against the whole state. Second, i will show you an example of how this money is not split equally and with our officials fighting together, The childrens museum in Portsmouth needed millions in renovation money and at the same time Richmond wanted to build a childrens museum. Richmond got the funds to build a new museum and the what happened to the portsmouth children's museum you ask? 100k is all the state would give this very old museum. The area actually pulled together and tried in Richmond to get the money but the rest of the state would not work with us to get the money. There is more examples. This is a fact no offense to you worldcoupe but it is the truth. I know you like Richmond and thats great but there is a bias when money is throw around the state for Richmond. I grew up here and been on this earth for 29 years and have watched all this for a long time. I'm not personally attacking you so you can cool down. Richmond is fine but the politics behind it is not. We as a area get alot left out of alot from this state and they need to wake up. We do have good reps for this area and they fight but when you look at this in the big picture its usually us against the state. The state usually chooses NOVA and Richmond. We are the red headed step child that nobody wants but the sure like the tax dollars. The tax dollars that this area generates does not come back here in a good percentage.

[wrldcoupe4]

I'm not personally attacking you so you can cool down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not running hot nor did I ever think I was being personally attacked. I just like it when people talk about the issues instead of pointing fingers and shifting blame. When you refer to Richmond, are you referring to the city itself of the state government? Sometimes I'm confused because I think Richmond is used to name both. I believe that NOVa gets a lot of attention for transportation because they A)are the major drive behind our state economy, B)provide the largest tax base for the state, and C) have by far the worst transportation issues in the state and arguably in the country. The springfield mixing bowl is hell on earth and that is an understatement. Sometimes it's taken me 5 hrs to get home to Richmond from school in Fairfax. Every single highway has a critically high level of traffic. Now why would the Richmond area get a disproportionate amount of funds from the state? I can't really say. I do know that up until recently with Wilder's budget cuts, the city had been hiring lobbyists to win more money in Washington (for things like the new Federal Courthouse). I also know that Eric Cantor who represents the Richmond area in Washington in the house is the house majority whip, and may give him the ability to influence things such as federal funding. With state transportation funding...I'm not so sure how Richmond comes out better though I can tell that is the concensus. However, Chesterfield voters just recently passed a $450+/- million bond referendum for capital improvements including roads because the state was not allocating enough funds for what was necessary. Maybe HR could try the same sorts of things the Richmond area does to receive more funding. Plus I think the elected officials can always do more. The whole area should be writing them daily demanding solutions. It would be nice to find somewhere exactly how much money is allocated for transportation funding to each area of the state.

What do I think? I think Richmond has an excellent highway system. It has been designed fairly well and won't need significant upgrades or additions for some time now, at least from state funding. Any more highways built in Richmond will be toll roads though, built by private partnerships. What about Hampton Roads? I think they deserve a third crossing and it would help alleviate a lot of trafffic issues. I also like the idea of an interstate down the DELMARVA so that HR doesn't seem so isolated. I think it needs much more rail transit, as does the rest of the state and should be integrated into a high speed rail network (I'd prefer it to be a maglev network). It just sucks that every transportation fix for the area is so damn expensive.

Could someone find a break down of how VDOT breaks down funds to various areas of the state so we can compare major areas such as NOVA, Richmond, and HR?

[rusthebuss]

I agree with you wrldcoupe but i was just stating some facts i know that it can feel like an attack on your hometown but i'm not and i don't care for the city of Richmond but alot of people do and i respect that. People up there are alot different than people here and the pace is a little faster here and the things to do are different as well. Maybe one day we can solve all of these issues and we all can live happily in the state of old VA.

[Former Resident of HR]

Well when they were putting in the MMBT, second DT tunnel and 664 all within a few years' time I am sure that all the people in RIC were moaning and groaning about how we get all the $$. The reason I64 is still not done is incompitence not $$.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

Well... then I suppose I'll blame the state government? Because they've frankly fouled up but I digress on that point. As far as a third crossing going directly to Craney Island...? Hmm... If it left the peninsula due north of Craney Island I think the problem would be that it would begin running through a waterfront community. I have a strong feeling that Newport News would resist basically destroying the only thing its East End has going for it. As far as Richmond, regardless of reasons they get more money and it sucks. There. Done. No matter who is at fault it sucks for us. Maybe yes our elected officials suck? Bear in mind our choices here in the Tidewater are sadly lacking. A number of institutions have been set up on the mayoral level (Norfolk, Va Beach, Frank in Newport News) and so have delegates (Melanie Rapp for my district). These people that represent us would be hard to replace and a lot of people out here just wouldn't care enough to replace them with someone who would get us funding... then again, it's not like I could do a better job, so I guess we're stuck? Booo.

[wrldcoupe4]

Could someone find a break down of how VDOT breaks down funds to various areas of the state so we can compare major areas such as NOVA, Richmond, and HR?

[Former Resident of HR]

The 3rd crossing going straight up from Craney Island??? Why? I never saw that plan on the boards. The way that they want to go is a connector between the HRBT and MMBT and then more lanes at the MMBT. That makes the most sense for the ports I guess.

Richmond has a lot of roads but it also occurred to me that they also have those tolls all over the place. Certain people here are going to "insta-reply" about how tolls will slow traffic and blah blah (the newest booths catch the non EZ passers in the right lanes and let you go thru at 55-65 MPH... even the Chesapeake Expressway is pretty good about that).

Politicians here act like tolls are some new fangled device to filtch drivers of their money when we had them here for years and years. If I had to pay $2-3 to get across the HRBT in less than an hour or from here to Richmond in less time, I would be more than happy to do that. It's either that or raising taxes and fees on people who may or may not be using the roads... The money must come from somewhere because it is not there now.

[rusthebuss]

it is suppose to come from 564 to connect the NIT and the craney island terminal. I think this is the real reason of this third crossing, not that the citizens will have a better way to travel around the area, its for the rigs. I think they are planning on tying the light rail in the mix to connect Newport News to the train. It will take them years to build it. I'm curious to see what they will show us in the winter.

Edited April 21, 2005 by rusthebuss

[okinawatyphoon]

VIRGINIA BEACH

[PeninsulaKiddo]

The 3rd crossing going straight up from Craney Island???  Why?  I never saw that plan on the boards. The way that they want to go is a connector between the HRBT and MMBT and then more lanes at the MMBT.  That makes the most sense for the ports I guess.

Richmond has a lot of roads but it also occurred to me that they also have those tolls all over the place.  Certain people here are going to "insta-reply" about how tolls will slow traffic and blah blah (the newest booths catch the non EZ passers in the right lanes and let you go thru at 55-65 MPH... even the Chesapeake Expressway is pretty good about that).

Politicians here act like tolls are some new fangled device to filtch drivers of their money when we had them here for years and years.  If I had to pay $2-3 to get across the HRBT in less than an hour or from here to Richmond in less time, I would be more than happy to do that.  It's either that or raising taxes and fees on people who may or may not be using the roads...  The money must come from somewhere because it is not there now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Personally, if I have to pay $1 every time I cross the bridge-tunnels in order to get a new one that overall saves me time (and money with gas prices where they are), then I'm all for it. Sadly many residents around HR are unwilling to listen to the fact that the $1 saves them considerably more, but they also didn't listen to the 1 penny idea back in 02, so.... whadd'ya gonn' do?

[rusthebuss]

They were worried the money would not be spread to us equally or most of the money would have gone to Richmond and NOVA. That was said in the paper, so i'm not trying to start anything.

[wrldcoupe4]

They were worried the money would not be spread to us equally or most of the money would have gone to Richmond and NOVA. That was said in the paper, so i'm not  trying to start anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All of the money raised by the 1 cent increase or by tolls would stay in the HR region for transportation. Shame many people didnt realize that.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

All of the money raised by the 1 cent increase or by tolls would stay in the HR region for transportation. Shame many people didnt realize that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not sure if the last post was related to the 1 cent issue from 3 years ago, but agreed. I think that's why so many people around here rejected it. The local leaders (as is often the case) weren't very forthcoming with information on the project and the local media (i.e. the Pilot and the Daily Press) didn't seem to cover it in a very positive light.

[rusthebuss]

Actually they found alot of loop holes to how the money would be distrubited, The people were able to see the truth. The loop holes were there on purpose.

[Former Resident of HR]

[rusthebuss]

I think they are complaining because they are wanting to build a 6 lane road on the bridge but not the rest of the road. But they would be smart to start some where and why not the bridge that is falling apart. These people are everywhere that complain and don't understand why their complaining works in this region so much and everywhere else they get drowned out and the project goes through?