Hampton Roads Transportation

[ace707]

I hate tolls as much as the next person but im beginning to think that they will be absolutely essential to get us out of our current predicament.

Oh, and i'm sure you didn't mean anything by it but we should be careful to state clearly when we are critisizing Richmond that it is the government, not the people, that is the focus of our concern. We have gained many new forumers, and a couple more from Richmond i am happy to say  . I just want to make sure we don't scare anyone away  .

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oops! haha yeah I'm sorry if I offended anyone from Richmond but I wasn't targeting anyone in particular. I was more speaking about our government's actions and proposals. My fault on any offenses.

[vdogg]

oops! haha yeah I'm sorry if I offended anyone from Richmond but I wasn't targeting anyone in particular. I was more speaking about our government's actions and proposals. My fault on any offenses.

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No worries . I know you didn't mean anything, just making sure everyone else did too. .

[rusthebuss]

Lets hope a resolution comes to help this area. They need to expand with the future in mind. I've been blaming VDOT but we need to step up and make this happen, how i don't know but it has to be done or what little money that floats in the area will disappear in the future.

Edited March 28, 2005 by rusthebuss

[vdogg]

Lets hope a resolution comes to help this area. They need to expand with the future in mind. I've been blaming VDOT but we need to step up and make this happen, how i don't know but it has to be done or what little money that floats in the area will disappear in the future.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There was once a proposed phone tax which would have charged 1 cent per line, i'm not sure what the tax was supposed to benefit but it was in Virginia Beach and handily struck down by referendum. If we can't even get something like that passed around here, i don't hold out hope for much else.

[rusthebuss]

I hate hearing people whine about taxes going up and then whine about the roads need to expand. Where do these people think the revenue is suppose to come from? More people the more money you need for everthing, such as education, roads, and city parks, etc.

[Jerseyman4]

Man, i dont think ive ever heard of a state capitol being bashed so badly from another part of the state. So Richmond neglects the transportation needs of the greater Norfolk area (VDOT Hampton Roads District). What about the rest of the state or is it just the Norfolk area? Why has it been that way and how long has it been going around?

[vdogg]

Man, i dont think ive ever heard of a state capitol being bashed so badly from another part of the state. So Richmond neglects the transportation needs of the greater Norfolk area (VDOT Hampton Roads District). What about the rest of the state or is it just the Norfolk area? Why has it been that way and how long has it been going around?

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It's pretty much the whole state Jerseyman. Hampton roads residents just tend to be a bit more vocal about things than others .

[VAGATOR]

Man, i dont think ive ever heard of a state capitol being bashed so badly from another part of the state. So Richmond neglects the transportation needs of the greater Norfolk area (VDOT Hampton Roads District). What about the rest of the state or is it just the Norfolk area? Why has it been that way and how long has it been going around?

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Until the late 60's, Politics in Virginia was dominated by the rural elements in state government. That lead to a lot of neglect regarding the cities of Virginia. What made people upset is that during the high flying 80's, it seems that Richmond got a majority of the road projects when you could clearly see problems on the horizon for the fast growing regions in Northern Virginia and Hampton Roads. That leads to the situation today, a growing traffic crisis in NOVA and Hampton Roads(who can at the least afford it due to a weak job market.) VDOT is broke and there are no solutions being offered at the moment, which will probably end up on tolls. Honestly, if you have driven on the older highways in Richmond i.e. 295 and 95, they aren't in that good of shape.

Edited April 2, 2005 by VAGATOR

[lammius]

Man, i dont think ive ever heard of a state capitol being bashed so badly from another part of the state. So Richmond neglects the transportation needs of the greater Norfolk area (VDOT Hampton Roads District). What about the rest of the state or is it just the Norfolk area? Why has it been that way and how long has it been going around?

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I think the most widespread and vocal criticism of state leadership in Richmond comes from northern Virginia.

[rusthebuss]

Man, i dont think ive ever heard of a state capitol being bashed so badly from another part of the state. So Richmond neglects the transportation needs of the greater Norfolk area (VDOT Hampton Roads District). What about the rest of the state or is it just the Norfolk area? Why has it been that way and how long has it been going around?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Richmond gets roads built and they are alot smaller than NOVA and the Norfolk area. The big thing is the fact those roads are getting fixed and ours are not so you tell what is up with that. Richmond makes sure that they get what they need and screw everyone else. I made a comment about the Norfolk area having a 10 billion dollar stronger economy than Richmond, that was a document released by the federal govt. and hamptonroads.com had the article about it. Norfolk area had a 5 billion dollar stronger economy than Raleigh, NC. We had the fourth largest economy behind : Atlanta, Charlotte, Miami in the southeastern section of the country.

[VAGATOR]

I made a comment about the Norfolk area having a 10 billion dollar stronger economy than Richmond, that was a document released by the federal govt. and hamptonroads.com had the article about it. Norfolk area had a 5 billion dollar stronger economy than Raleigh, NC. We had the fourth largest economy behind : Atlanta, Charlotte, Miami in the southeastern section of the country.

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I find that statistic very hard to believe. Sorry, but Norfolk or Hampton Roads doesn

[Mike D]

VDOT is broke? But doesn't VA have a surplus? That should be used to set up some sort of dedicated transportation money. VA has grown a lot over the years and the infrastructure doesn't seem to be set up to handle it - at least from what I've been reading here. HR defintely needs more links between the Peninsula and the South Side - and not just roads.

[wrldcoupe4]

The hampton roads traffic sucks, that's for sure. I can't speak of favoritism for Richmond or whatever; sounds too political to me. The infrastructure is pretty good though. I know that the extenstion of rt. 288, which created a Richmond "beltway" is the last tollfree highway Richmond will see. I will say that Hampton Roads definitely needs a solution to its traffic problems, especially around the bridge/tunnels. NOVA is just impossible to fix. The mixing bowl at Springfield interchange is unbelievable. I remember reading that when they finish it, at its widest point it will be 24 lanes across! Crazy mess. I think the traffic up here in NOVA is definitely worse. I get on 95 south of Springfield and it sometimes takes me 4-5 hrs to get home to Richmond for break or weekends. How would people in Hampton Roads feel about better infrastructure but with tolls?

[lammius]

Mike D, that surplus you see won't last long. I don't mean to politicize the conversation but when Virginia Republicans (in my mind among the worst kind) see that the government has any amount of money they demand tax cuts!

wrldcoupe4, tolls are the way to go. New Jersey uses a combination of tolls, gas taxes, increased traffic violation fines, and high vehicle property taxes to pay for roads and transit. People complain but the State has an excellent highway and transit system. This isn't to say there's no traffic or transit problems but it's amazing what they do considering the density of the state and its proximity to two very large cities.

[rusthebuss]

Democrats just want to give all the money away to the lazy people of the world. That is one of the biggest debts we have in this state and country. Lazy people suck so much money from working people it is ridiculous. And you did make it political with a remark like that.

[wrldcoupe4]

Democrats just want to give all the money away to the lazy people of the world. That is one of the biggest debts we have in this state and country. Lazy people suck so much money from working people it is ridiculous. And you did make it political with a remark like that.

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Has Warner done this? And how would Hampton Roads feel a better infrastructure but with toll roads?

[Former Resident of HR]

Ugh no matter who is politically in power in VA the roads are going to be in bad shape that is a fact of life. I64 has been under construction through Reps and Dems. I think that the problems plauging VDOT are not Democratic or Republican one, rather they are because of complacent people who know how secure their jobs are no matter how bad they muck up the roads.

Having said that, I still think the most viable solution that we'll have to face up to is that we need tolls to get the roads we need now. This, coupled with a mix of higher fuel taxes and a portion of the port's fund can make them realistic at $2-3 each way. I would pay that to get through the tunnels to Hampton or Portsmouth without the eternal "20-30 min delay" (READ: 1-2 hour delay). I pay the $12 toll whenever I got to NY etc because I would rather not risk 64, the mixing bowl, DC and point north of there. Tolls do not chase away that much business from the ports or NYC would not have the biggest terminals on the East Coast.

By the way, so what if Richmond get the money and then builds themselves nicer roads than us? They are a main through route because of them being on I95. We are on a cul-de-sac here and the only people going through the area are doing so to get to/from the outer banks.

If we are so upset about this issue, we need to elect people who will battle for the area and not shy away from reality. They wanted us to vote for an increase in sales tax to pay for a ton of roads that would help the ports and developers first???? C'mon no one voted for that one. If they asked us to vote on increasing the interest rate or if your landlord (if you rent) wanted to ask the tennants whether or not they want to increase their rent what do you think they will say? Duh. They need to get in there and get some funding for these projects even if it means tolls and taxes.

[rusthebuss]

I find that statistic very hard to believe. Sorry, but Norfolk or Hampton Roads doesn

[rusthebuss]

Tolls would just plug up the roads even worse. I don't think tolls are the answer. I understand what you are saying and i know the revenue has to come somewhere but its just going to cause more traffic issues point blank.

[VAGATOR]

The solution for the traffic problems in NOVA and Hampton Roads is a simple case of picking your poison, an increase in sales tax or toll roads. Personally, I see all the new projects in the near future (second midtown tunnel, Greenbelt, Third Crossing, 460 improvements) will be toll roads.

[lammius]

The solution for the traffic problems in NOVA and Hampton Roads is a simple case of picking your poison, an increase in sales tax or toll roads. Personally, I see all the new projects in the near future (second midtown tunnel, Greenbelt, Third Crossing, 460 improvements) will be toll roads.

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I never have and never will support a SALES tax increase that would be used to build highways. It's such a regressive tax. IMO the only equitable way to raise highway $ is user fees. If you drive you pay. Gas tax, property tax on cars, violation fines, increased DMV fees, tolls, etc. If ya need highway money, hit up the people who will benefit from the highways--drivers.

[Mike D]

I never have and never will support a SALES tax increase that would be used to build highways.  It's such a regressive tax.  IMO the only equitable way to raise highway $ is user fees.  If you drive you pay.  Gas tax, property tax on cars, violation fines, increased DMV fees, tolls, etc.  If ya need highway money, hit up the people who will benefit from the highways--drivers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree that user fees are the way to go, such as tolls, gas taxes and strong violation fees - this is what should be used to pay for highway expansion. Personally, I also think HR could use better rail transit. I would think given the geography of the area, rail could really be beneficial to the area. Having only highway crossings between the Peninsula and the South Side will just make the traffic worse. I think a rail bridge should be built too. It could be used by commuter and Amtrak trains.

[lammius]

I agree that user fees are the way to go, such as tolls, gas taxes and strong violation fees - this is what should be used to pay for highway expansion. Personally, I also think HR could use better rail transit. I would think given the geography of the area, rail could really be beneficial to the area. Having only highway crossings between the Peninsula and the South Side will just make the traffic worse. I think a rail bridge should be built too. It could be used by commuter and Amtrak trains.

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I agree entirely. And rail has the added benefit of allowing dense development along corridors.

[rusthebuss]

The problem is that you will still have to have a tunnel to get over there and thats alot of money and will take sooooooo long. I have to cross that tunnel everyday to Hampton. The construction there aka "bottle neck" stuffs that hole and makes it so bad to drive through there.

[lammius]

The problem is that you will still have to have a tunnel to get over there and thats alot of money and will take sooooooo long. I have to cross that tunnel everyday to Hampton. The construction there aka "bottle neck" stuffs that hole and makes it so bad to drive through there.

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The thing with rail tunnels is that one could be built for cheaper than the presently proposed third crossing and have a passenger capacity that is far higher.

New Jersey Transit in cooperation with the Port Authority of NY-NJ is planning a rail tunnel, new station adjacent to Penn Sta., and a rail loop at Secaucus that will cost a total of $5 billion. Just the tunnel/bridge portion could be built in Hampton Roads for a fraction (less inftrastructure and lower cost down here) and carry 200,000 passengers/day at capacity (based on 2 tracks and 10-car trains on 5 minute headways). It's just more bang for the buck.

Yeah it's expensive and takes a long time to construct but the geography of the area provides no easy quick fix.