Hampton Roads Transportation

[rusthebuss]

Can we rename you Mr. Sunshine? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I just get tired of things proposed in this area and then shot down over stupid things, its like a roller coaster here. Just like hearing that the hilton only 16 stories and all this hype the city put around this thing for only 16 stories. I love this area and sometimes it disappoints me

[wrldcoupe4]

This is the project status of the Third Crossing Project:

"A Final Environmental Impact Statement was prepared in 2000 evaluating the impact of building a new crossing of Hampton Roads.

In 2002, the General Assembly offered a ballot referendum involving a 1 percent increase in sales tax throughout the region to fund six new projects, including the Third Crossing. The referendum failed.

VDOT is still looking for ways to fund this project and several others in the Hampton Roads region. There is no funding in the foreseeable future."

The cost in 2004 would have been: $2.75 billion, but by 2023, the price will have inflated to $4.32 billion.

Here is a page at VDOT's website that talks about it : Third Crossing Study

[lammius]

This is the project status of the Third Crossing Project:

"A Final Environmental Impact Statement was prepared in 2000 evaluating the impact of building a new crossing of Hampton Roads.

In 2002, the General Assembly offered a ballot referendum involving a 1 percent increase in sales tax throughout the region to fund six new projects, including the Third Crossing. The referendum failed.

VDOT is still looking for ways to fund this project and several others in the Hampton Roads region. There is no funding in the foreseeable future."

The cost in 2004 would have been: $2.75 billion, but by 2023, the price will have inflated to $4.32 billion.

Here is a page at VDOT's website that talks about it : Third Crossing Study

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I really dislike how Virginia politicians have really localized the issue of transportation in this state. Although the sales tax referendum was assembled by local politicians who had grown tired of the legislature's inaction, the result of the vote has been sort of a promise of more inaction on behalf of the legislature. "If transportation was such a big problem why didn't the people vote 'yes?' The no vote proves that we don't have to consider transportation problems in HR and NVA to be serious." I think it really set the regions of the state apart, where HR and NVA people demand solutions and backwoods people say "Not with MY tax dollars!" This is where the user fees come in.

[urbanfan]

This is the project status of the Third Crossing Project:

"A Final Environmental Impact Statement was prepared in 2000 evaluating the impact of building a new crossing of Hampton Roads.

In 2002, the General Assembly offered a ballot referendum involving a 1 percent increase in sales tax throughout the region to fund six new projects, including the Third Crossing. The referendum failed.

VDOT is still looking for ways to fund this project and several others in the Hampton Roads region. There is no funding in the foreseeable future."

The cost in 2004 would have been: $2.75 billion, but by 2023, the price will have inflated to $4.32 billion.

Here is a page at VDOT's website that talks about it : Third Crossing Study

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is all old information related to the original project. I am posting a link to the newest information on the project. Right now two private companies have proposals on the board for the project. The state and VDOT have already given them the go ahead to do detailed pricing and analysis. They are supposed to have the reports in by late this year with a possible record of decision early next year. I'll try to find the article that came out earlier this year which explained this.

http://www.virginiadot.org/business/ppta3rdCrossing.asp

[rusthebuss]

This is all old information related to the original project.  I am posting a link to the newest information on the project.  Right now two private companies have proposals on the board for the project.  The state and VDOT have already given them the go ahead to do detailed pricing and analysis.  They are supposed to have the reports in by late this year with a possible record of decision early next year.  I'll try to find the article that came out earlier this year which explained this.

http://www.virginiadot.org/business/ppta3rdCrossing.asp

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lets hope this happens soon, and then the pennisula can get connected with the light rail and then vabeach could have norfolk and newport news element close by........lol

[vdogg]

On pages 26-37 of this very large pdf file constitution drive extension (approx. 206 pages) is a very in depfth look at route alternative a and f as they relate to the cityview development and areas surrounding constitution drive. The final vote is going to occur at tommorrows council meeting (Tuesday, 4/12/05) .

[rusthebuss]

When are they going to start construction on the road?

[okinawatyphoon]

Progress on ODU maglev still bumpy

NORFOLK

Edited April 15, 2005 by okinawatyphoon

[urbanvb]

I am really about to lose faith on this meglev situation.. I do so want it to work but I dunno at this point.

[urbanfan]

We already know that maglev works, the only problem is cost. China has theirs up and running already, at a cost of 2 billion. I don't think anyone in their right minds wants to spend that kind of money on a transit system. Thats why ODU is doing this project, to create a feasible system that works within monetary budgets.

However, I think American Maglev messed the project up by running this train on a raised guideway. The train rain smoothly in florida before it was shipped here which the track was on the ground and the only problem now is between supports where the track is not supported. Why couldn't they have built a tunnel or ran it at grade. If they had we wouldn't even be having this problem and the system would be running just fine. By the way china's system is at grade and through tunnels. Runs just fine.

[rusthebuss]

Do you know how much a tunnel would have cost, that is why they didn't build it like that. They were looking at how cheap it would be to put an i beam up.

[urbanfan]

Do you know how much a tunnel would have cost, that is why they didn't build it like that. They were looking at how cheap it would be to put an i beam up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Transit tunnels are not as expensive as you think. Most are precast off site and dropped into a trench that has been dug out, then backfilled over top. Now if you were tunneling under water or through a mountain, yes it gets very expensive. The guideway that was built was actually very expensive and they probably would have had better results in a tunnal or even at grade. Saving the 4 or 5 million dollars in extra funds needed to get the project to a half decent status. (still not running smooth)

[rusthebuss]

The point that american maglev was trying to make, was to make it visible for advertisement purposes

[PeninsulaKiddo]

While I'm too lazy to go back and find the post on "is HR really left out of VDOTs plans" or something... I have to say yes. I have little scientific or statistical data to back up what I'm going to say----yes, this is all opinion folks----but seriously. Why in the Lord's name would you pump billions of dollars into NOVA where it's clearly doing no good? Orrr, why would you do the same in Richmond where it's really not needed? While Richmond may be a "weighstation" along 95, it's arguably got the best traffic along it from the VA/NC border all the way to Portland, Maine. C'mon Richmond, just a few billion dollars?

[rusthebuss]

While I'm too lazy to go back and find the post on "is HR really left out of VDOTs plans" or something... I have to say yes.  I have little scientific or statistical data to back up what I'm going to say----yes, this is all opinion folks----but seriously.  Why in the Lord's name would you pump billions of dollars into NOVA where it's clearly doing no good?  Orrr, why would you do the same in Richmond where it's really not needed?  While Richmond may be a "weighstation" along 95, it's arguably got the best traffic along it from the VA/NC border all the way to Portland, Maine.  C'mon Richmond, just a few billion dollars?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I totally agree with you. Richmonds proposing another roadway for them and they will probably get state financing.

[urbanvb]

I totally agree with you. Richmonds proposing another roadway for them and they will probably get state financing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess that's what happens when you are the big cheese..

[rusthebuss]

The are a wanny be big city without the population to back and building roads they don't need. The need is here and they need to wake up or we should jump ship and become part of NC.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

The are a wanny be big city without the population to back and building roads they don't need. The need is here and they need to wake up or we should jump ship and become part of NC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I may not be a fan of NC, lmao, but maybe THEY WOULD CARE! hahaha. wow that would be interesting.

[lammius]

And we'd be the largest metro in NC!

Let Richmond build their beltways and sprawl out, further killing their center city. Perhaps our lack of roads is a blessing in disguise. It will begin to focus our attention on developing inward. But we do need easy access in/out of the region.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

And we'd be the largest metro in NC!

Let Richmond build their beltways and sprawl out, further killing their center city.  Perhaps our lack of roads is a blessing in disguise.  It will begin to focus our attention on developing inward.  But we do need easy access in/out of the region.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Access out of this region is/always has been a major issue. I think developing 58 and or Rte. 460 into interstate-style highways is planned at some point, but highways extending southward into NC would keep us from just being a huge cul-de-sac.

[Former Resident of HR]

Access out of this region is/always has been a major issue.  I think developing 58 and or Rte. 460 into interstate-style highways is planned at some point, but highways extending southward into NC would keep us from just being a huge cul-de-sac.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If they got the ball rolling on DelMarVa and had it freeway grade all the way from here to Dover that would be a big help too...

[rusthebuss]

And we'd be the largest metro in NC!

Let Richmond build their beltways and sprawl out, further killing their center city.  Perhaps our lack of roads is a blessing in disguise.  It will begin to focus our attention on developing inward.  But we do need easy access in/out of the region.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It wouldn't be a blessing if the rigs get stuck in traffic from the shipping terminals and the same thing that happened to LA would happen to us, the shipping companies would move their operations to other areas.

[wrldcoupe4]

Man I've never seen so much Richmond bashing from our neighbors to the east in my life..... where do I begin?

"Orrr, why would you do the same in Richmond where it's really not needed? While Richmond may be a "weighstation" along 95, it's arguably got the best traffic along it from the VA/NC border all the way to Portland, Maine."

-First of all, it does not have the best traffic along 95. I know because I live there. 295 helps make 95 through the city a better drive than if 295 was not there. Without 295, I guarantee it would be muuuch worse. Secondly, what do you mean by weighstation? How many other cities with MSAs of 1 million+ are "weighstations"?

"I totally agree with you. Richmonds proposing another roadway for them and they will probably get state financing."

-Which roadway is this? It is known that Richmond will not be getting anymore free roads like 288. Anything that is proposed is a toll road, or part of a toll road, which will be built by private partnerships. Some public money would go to a road, perhaps because it is part of the governments responsibility to maintain infrastructure.

"The are a wanny be big city without the population to back and building roads they don't need."

-This statement is just out right ignorant. Nobody is trying to be a wanna be big city in Richmond. I can't really even respond to this ill-advised comment because it is so ridiculous.

"Let Richmond build their beltways and sprawl out, further killing their center city."

-The center city is getting stronger by the day. I really have no idea what you are talking about. You should check out the Richmond forum and read all about it. The suburbs have expanded, just like every single other metro in this country. There is also a great deal of gentrification of older neighborhoods in the city and inner suburbs. The "beltway" if you want to call it that was important for a multitude of reasons.

For god's sake, bashing Richmond and constant self pity won't make the transportation issues in Hampton roads get any better or become resolved. Strong organizations that present a united front for a region can help. I always hear people complain about the lack of regional cooperation in HR. I bet real regional cooperation couldn't hurt in trying to resolve the transportation issues of HR. Accepting tolls as inevitable couldn't hurt either. One real disadvantage the HR has for transportation is the sheer cost of providing the adequate infrastructure given the difficult topography of the area (waterways, peninsulas, etc). I definitely think something should be done to alleviate HR of its traffic woes. It could start to take a toll on quality of life and other issues, should it not be improved. I don't think any one area should be favored in this state over another area. I'm also disappointed in the unfounded attacks above. I really like the HR area. Perhaps positive discussion about the issues that really matter in HR transportation could yield positive results.

[VAGATOR]

Jump ship to NC, ha ha ha. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Hampton Roads region would play third fiddle in N.C. just like it does in Virginia. Sure Richmond deserves some of the blame for the traffic problems through out the state, mainly due the total incompetence of VDOT and lack vision regarding seeing potential problems in the early 90s, especially in Hampton Roads, but let

[lammius]

wrldcoupe, I wasn't bashing Richmond, just sprawl. When you build nice highways out into the hinterlands development follows. The highways provide nice easy access and the areas around them become attractive. Soon comes congestion and eventually another highway, allowing more people to move farther out. Richmond and many other cities are turning their downtowns around but the bulk of growth is still on the exurban fringe in nearly every MSA in the country. You can make a nice attractive and vibrant downtown/CBD and adjacent neighborhoods. But what are the areas between there and the inner ring suburbs like? I know next to nothing about Richmond but in all too many cities the answer is they're not doing so well. A shiny downtown is a nice asset but a vibrant or excelling city it does not make.

In that spirit I was attempting to tell these HR people not to lust for new highways and sprawl. If people in HR recognize that because of the lack of highways it would take them 60 minutes to get to Norfolk from a vinyl house in Suffolk the older home in Portsmouth may be worth rehabilitating.