Charlotte's Urban Lowe's Home Improvement

[monsoon]

But the reality of the situation is this. If you don't own the property where the coal mine is going, then you really don't have the right to tell the rightful owner he can't develop it.

South Blvd. is a designated transit corridor. I don't think the realization what that means has sunk in to a lot of people until now. South Blvd. including the section fronted by Dilworth is going to change greatly regardless of whether Lowes goes there or not. Once the trains start rolling my guess is a great deal of other development such as Lowes is going to end up there.

I would have no problem if the Dilworth HOA wanted to buy the property and develop as they please, but otherwise, they don't have any special claim to the property rights and let alone the public streets that the taxpayers paid for. Most of the people in the city support this development so my guess it will go through. It makes sense for a great deal of reasons.

[atlrvr]

I think also the expectation is that this is not a rural location. This is already located on a busy thouroughfare that is has for the last 100 years had cycles of development and decay.

[bits]

Understood Metro...change is coming and the rail will be a catalyst. We just had a more restaurant and small shop vision....people strolling around and all that jazz.. Also understand that the owners of propery should have right's but developent has to have some kind of plan. It just cannot go unchecked.

[dubone]

bits, welcome to the forum.

You have a valid concern for maintaining the health of your neighborhood. I can empathize with the situation of being a pioneer and having a project announced that panics you. I moved to first ward when it was still a little uncertain what direction it would take, and after it was well on its way to revitalizing, an asphalt plant was announced a few blocks away that would have seriously stunted the neighborhood's development.

I think everyone in the city wants dilworth to remain a healthy, beautiful, revitalized neighborhood, as it is a showcase for what is good about early 20th century life and a model for how to build neighborhoods.

In this case, though, i think the health of the neighborhood will be completely untouched. True, this is a very large hardware store, but any and everything that will be built on south boulevard would be on the same scale. Traffic for lowes will hardly increase, because suburban rushhour commuting traffic already plows through the neighborhood, and this will be a sliver of that. Light pollution can be remedied. Truck noise will be a sliver of existing traffic noise on south boulevard, and olmstead park already has a sound barrier for that.

As I referred to, I can understand "nimby" situations, as some things just shouldn't be in people's backyards. But a hardware store on a highly trafficked thoroughfare is not one of them, in my opinion.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

asphalt plant? Did that happen?

[monsoon]

No. The city worked a deal with the owner and it located elsewhere.

[dubone]

there was, and still is to some degree, a large amount of I2 zoning just over 277 in Belmont and Optimist Park. that zoning was left over from cotton mill days, but was and still is mostly junkyards and vacant land. The city created a plan for revitalizing that part of town in preparation for applying for a Hope VI grant for piedmont courts. Even though they had target zoning classifications for the land, they never rezoned it. Ferebee, who owns a asphalt company, owned the land for decades, He owned the land, had the zoning, and out of the blue, he just started leveling the lot to build a plant.

It was quite a panic around uptown at that point. There was nothing the city could do about it, since the zoning was in place.

there was such an uprising, as it would have put half of uptown into a cancer risk radius (including city hall and BofA corporate and the 300 million dollar nba arena). I, personally, was planning to move out, even at a loss, as i read about health risks.

The city eventually used money to stop the plant. They gave him a million bucks to compensate for the delays, gave him industrial land by 85 and 77, paid to improve the land to match the access of optimist park land, and let him keep his own land in optimist park as long as he agreed not to fight a downzoning.

That lit a fire under the planning department, and now they request rezoning as part of neighborhood plans. Most of that land was downzoned, but there are still a few remaining, but they are owned by the city.

That was only 2or3 years ago.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

wow. It has been rezoned to prevent such crap now right?

EDIT...

Was the plant to be built on the other side of 277?

[dubone]

wow. It has been rezoned to prevent such crap now right?

EDIT...

Was the plant to be built on the other side of 277?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes, it is rezoned.

It was to be at N Davidson, 13th Street, N Caldwell, Belmont St. just north of Brookshire Freeway (277). Note that Brookeshire is between 11th and 12th, so that is a block north of 277.

I didn't mean to take us this far off topic, though. My point was that I can understand Nimbyism to some degree, but a hardware store is not comparable.

[uptownliving]

Just for reference...Home Depot just opened a new store on South Blvd at Woodlawn about a month ago...so I doubt Lowe's would settle for building there.

I think the neighborhood has some valid points with this project...but I also think that most of them can be remedied if the neighborhood works with the developer , city planning staff, and elected officials.

People will walk to this store...and most of those people will be walking from Dilworth. Someone mentioned something about buying a 50 lbs. bag of fertilizer...well if you are from Dilworth then you have certainly seen parents pull their kids around in red wagons....if they can pull their kids in it they can certainly pull a bag of fertilizer.

This store will utimately be good for South End, even with it's drawbacks.

[DigitalSky]

Just for reference...Home Depot just opened a new store on South Blvd at Woodlawn about a month ago...so I doubt Lowe's would settle for building there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

did not know that. I guess I haven't been down South Blvd in a while

[monsoon]

Actually there is a Home Depot next door to the Huntersville Lowes.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

same on Providence and Ballantyne.

[DigitalSky]

same on Providence and Ballantyne.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

same in Matthews on Independence

It's almost a golden rule

"Where there's a Home Depot, there's a Lowes".. "Where there's a Best Buy, There's a Circuit City".. "Where there's a Linens N Things, there's a Bed Bath n Beyond".."where the.... you get the point

[dubone]

That kind of side by side competition works okay in suburban shopping megacomplexes, as the people are coming from all over the place. The whole reason that urban stores are risky for these companies are that the suburban multitudes are not driving to these stores.

The urban stores cost more, and have somewhat smaller area to draw customers from. As a result, I believe the profit margins are less, and the area wouldn't easily support two bigbox hardware stores. By locating four miles away near downtown, lowes is reaching a slightly different area of people. I go to both the home depot on rt 4, but i would spend much more money and make much more frequent trips if it were in south end. That is what they are going for.

[monsoon]

Our discussion was the possiblity of lowes going at woodlawn.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

if it did go on woodlawn it probably would be just a typical lowes, nothing of this scale.

[dubone]

i know. Home Depot considers its Woodlawn and Wendover stores to be urban. I don't think they could both meet their profit expectations if they were sideby side at either location. That is, i believe, why lowes decided to edge a few miles closer to downtown.

[uptownliving]

same in Matthews on Independence

It's almost a golden rule

"Where there's a Home Depot, there's a Lowes".. "Where there's a Best Buy, There's a Circuit City".. "Where there's a Linens N Things, there's a Bed Bath n Beyond".."where the.... you get the point

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think Lowe's is going to build at Woodlawn...just like they have not built on Eastway near Monroe. The Home Depot has been on Eastway for almost 10 years now with Lowe's nowhere to be seen.

I also don't think that Home Depot will build in SouthEnd if this Lowe's goes up.

The Golden rule that works in the suburban areas of cheap land and a small number of high traffic roads doesn't work in more urban areas.

[monsoon]

I am not that I would characterize Woodlawn or Eastway as densely urban areas, nor would I call the land around exit 25 as being cheap. Small doctor's offices there are selling for well over a million dollars these days.

[uptownliving]

I don't think anyone is saying that Eastway and Woodlawn are very dense urban areas. However according to Home Depot they classify both stores as "urban" So you will have to have the demographics discussion with them.

For reference from Meck Co Tax Records:

The shopping center land at Exit 25 where the Home Depot and Lowe's is located is valued at about $18K per acre.

The land at the Wendover Home Depot is valued at $36K per acre.

The land at the Woodlawn Home Depot is valued at $22K per acre.

The land at the future Midtown Home Depot EXPO is valued at $871K per acre.

[dubone]

i agree with you, metro, but i think in the bigbox business model, it is a whole different game inside outerbelts. Home depot is considered pioneering for building within 5 miles of downtown. I'm excited the lowes is committed to making their business work about a mile away from downtown, because it really helps keep costs low for contractors and builders when building or renovating in the inner city.

[uptownliving]

Home Depot also has a store in Manhatten. Lowe's is really behind the 8 Ball when it comes to urban stores. The Charlotte store is their first attempt at this. Hopefully it will be a succussful one.

[atlrvr]

HD's foray into Charlotte urban is the Midtown store. This will be a full HD now, and not just and Expo. It is less than 2 miles from the Lowe's site, so they would be considered direct competitors.

[dubone]

well, that puts a whole new spin on it, huh. Does that mean charlotte won't get a full sized expo, or did the store size increase when they hoisted a target on top of themselves?

I still don't think they have the same conditions intown to do the side by side competition.