I-73's impact on Florence

[Charleston native]

I think the location of the civic center out there is the worst mistake Fleornce could have made. Most cities are realizing now that these things are useful when trying to boost a downtown's economy. I have been to the restaurants around the civic center and all of that mess, but like you said, it is not pedestrian oriented. I could not realisticly eat at a restaurant on McLeod Blvd then walk over to the Civic Center.

The locaiton is convenient for people who want to come in, watch a game, and get out. No need to visit downtown or encourage a unique experience.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh man, good point! I missed the mark on that one. I was just thinking in terms of how it really promotes the economy around the mall. But it doesn't do Florence's DT any justice. I think they didn't put it there because there was nothing else to encourage people to go DT. The civic center may have been the one thing to change the situation, though.

[Spartan]

True. I have no doubt that they thought it was the best decsion at the time. It was probably due to the cost of building it on empty land vs clearing land downtown. Plus, its not like the thing is a useless building- it just doesn't fit the ideals that we like to promote on this forum.

I am not sure how old the civic center is, but I suspect it is nearing the end of its life. With Florence's new effort to revitalize its downtown, they might consider building a new one there.

[vicupstate]

True.

[Spartan]

The land that the center is on was donated. The owners thought they would recoup the donation because their remaining property would spike in value.  It was considered the best site for a center because it's close proximity to I-95 & I-20.  Concert convoys can get off & on the interstate very easily at that site, .  Unfortunately, the market is not big enough to support most big name acts.  Reba McIntyre is about the only sell-out in it's history, other than hockey games. 

The building is nowhere near  the end of it's useful life, as it has more than enough seating for any use it gets.  Not to mention the building is barely 10 years old, and still being paid off.  The decision to build it was very controversial. 

There is however, a plan to build a performing arts center downtown.  A significant part of the funding would come from a local foundation.  (the same one that paid for 60% of the new library construction).  It would be built a few blocks from the new library.  It not a sure thing though.

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I didn't know it was that new. It certainly hasn't aged well. I thought it was atleast 15-20 years old.

[Charleston native]

I didn't know it was that new. It certainly hasn't aged well. I thought it was atleast 15-20 years old.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The design is clearly from an older era. The architect definitely did not use very much ingenuity when the center was rendered. However, I have the feeling that they probably used the lowest bidder when plans for the center were being worked out. When I first saw it, I also thought it was older.

One of the things that will help Florence's DT is better access into it. Currently, you have US 52 and US 76 which go directly into it. US 76 has many older homes located along there, but US 52 is a mostly industrial corridor. If they want to improve DT, 52 will need to be improved, widened, have street lights, and have better landscaping. 76 can be improved, but on the eastern side of DT coming from Myrtle Beach.

Or, another option would be to provide a direct access highway from I-73 into DT. It just needs to have better visibility.

[thehappysmith]

I voted no. Not because I have anything against Florence.

1. They have two interstates already, one heading west to the state capital and Atlanta beyond that, the other south to Florida and north to the megalopolis. Florence has absolutely terrific transportation connections, the kind other cities of its size only dream of. I-73 will suffer from the law of diminishing returns. How much more significant will an interstate that connects to MB and Rockingham be than one that connects to Raleigh-Durham? Not much, IMO.

2. I was also under the impression that the I-73 routing went nearer to SC 38 in Marion County, 20 miles north of Florence. Maybe my info is wrong, but if not, that's too far away from Florence to have any real impact.

3. Half the purpose of this interstate is to bring people into MB. Sure, it might mean some help for the Rockingham-Hamlet-Bennetsville-Cheraw area, as it will go right through the middle there, but, as with MB, it will also be the first interstate through the area and thus a huge boon; the third interstate to an area that already doesn't much benefit from the two it has doesn't seem like it will help much.

4. Who's going to stop at Florence for some reason when they're on the way to Myrtle Beach? The beach is only another 60 miles away, that's less than an hour's drive. If MB is the destination for I-73 drivers, there won't be any real cause to stop in Florence. If they have to stop for gas, they'll do it right over the state line in Bennetsville or Cheraw.

5. Spartan hit the nail on the head about the civic center. Florence is a place people stop at on the way to somewhere else. The city leaders couldn't even think of their own town as anything else, so they tried to make their one significant amenity as convenient as possible to people who just want to stop by on their way to someplace else. It shows a total lack of imagination and no desire to build up their city. Maybe things have changed, but in my experience the pace of political change in SC has always been somewhat glacial. (And don't lecture me on the republican revolution in SC; today's repubs and 1960's dems are the same exact creature.)

The foregoing aside, it would certainly be nice to see Florence take some real action in turning the somewhat moribund downtown area around and attracting good clean compact growth. If I-73 does it for them, wonderful. But I have my doubts.

[Spartan]

2. I was also under the impression that the I-73 routing went nearer to SC 38 in Marion County, 20 miles north of Florence.  Maybe my info is wrong, but if not, that's too far away from Florence to have any real impact.

That is where it will come into SC. I am not sure how far east it will go, but you would be right. However, it is proven that an interstate will enevitably help the economies of the places it passes by, even if its not in a major way.

[Mr.Marc]

From what I have heard from older people who can remember when I-95 was built, it really did help Florence. As I said before, if you are riding on I-95, you can see where Florence has taken advantage of having this interstate running through it. I don't think Florence would have stores such as Target, 2 Wal-Marts, Bed Bath and Beyond, etc. if it didn't have I-95.

Some people think that I-20 didn't help Florence much, but technically I-20 does not run through Florence, it ends at Florence. If I-20 is extended to Myrtle Beach, which will make it MB's 2nd interstate, Florence will really take off.

[vicupstate]

From what I have heard from older people who can remember when I-95 was built, it really did help Florence. As I said before, if you are riding on I-95, you can see where Florence has taken advantage of having this interstate running through it. I don't think Florence would have stores such as Target, 2 Wal-Marts, Bed Bath and Beyond, etc. if it didn't have I-95.

Some people think that I-20 didn't help Florence much, but technically I-20 does not run through Florence, it ends at Florence. If I-20 is extended to Myrtle Beach, which will make it MB's 2nd interstate, Florence will really take off.

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I agree that I-95 was/is more important than I-20. Florence has not had the level of growth that it should have had over the last 30 years, but it would have been far less without the interstates. GE has a major plant at the intersection of the I-95 & I-20, for example.

Greenwood for example was merely flat-lined for years in terms of population, probably due to it's isolation from interstate highways.

[95-Souf]

Humm.. lets see here, We have I-95 and the eastern terminus of I-20 all within the City of Florence, adding I-73 to that would give it a total of 3 interstate highways... lets put that into context with a city like Miami, that only has 17.1 miles of I-95 and a few miles of distant I-75 that abruptly ends without even connecting to I-95. Do you really think having another interstate highway in close proximity will help,... But I guess you have to take into account its location,.. There is a city about 50 miles to the southwest of Florence called Sumter. It has no interstate highways and I-95 comes as close as 20 miles of it, but the two cities are relitivly close in size and population.

[Mr.Marc]

Humm.. lets see here,  We have I-95 and the eastern terminus of I-20 all within the City of Florence, adding I-73 to that would give it a total of 3 interstate highways... lets put that into context with a city like Miami, that only has 17.1 miles of I-95 and a few miles of distant I-75 that abruptly ends without even connecting to I-95.  Do you really think having another interstate highway in close proximity will help,...    But I guess you have to take into account its location,.. There is a city about 50 miles to the southwest of Florence called Sumter.  It has no interstate highways and I-95 comes as close as 20 miles of it, but the two cities are relitivly close in size and population.

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Actually, you are talking to the right person because I am from Sumter. Sumter and Florence may be the same size in terms of land (and that's a big maybe), but people from Sumter travel to Florence to work for companies, shop at stores and eat at restaurants that Sumter does not have, so obviously a lot of Sumterites think otherwise.

To be politically correct I-95 doesn't come close to Sumter, it actually runs through it (it runs through the edge of Sumter County, not 20 miles from it).

Was anyone comparing Florence to Miami? Florence is not cocaine capital of the world. Miami may only have a few or so interstate miles running through it, but that doesn't compare to the fact that it is on the ocean and many people know how to get to it by way of water (just ask Tony Montana).

[vicupstate]

Sumter's growth has been even slower than Florence's. The greater distance from the interstate, probably has had a hand in that.

The number of interstates alone does not determine a city's size or growth. If it did, Indianapolis would be a huge city, as it has 5 interstates. Interstates are a prerequisite to becoming a significant size city though.

I-73 will be somewhat of a detriment to Florence, in that tourists on the way to MB, that now drive through or closely bypass it, would now miss it entirely. And yes, MB tourists do buy food and gas in Florence. It is the last major city before hitting MB, which has much worse traffic and higher gas prices.

Florence actually is a leading SC county for tourist dollars. The 52/I-95 interchange is the most developed one between Jacksonville and Richmond.

Also, I-73 will not just connect Florence to Rockingham, it will go all the way to Detroit. Florence will probably be the small city in the country with close proximity to 3 interstates. Surely that will put it on the radar screens of companies that rely heavily on interstate transportation. If it brought only one or two such companies, it would more than offset the aforementioned negative affect.

Don't get me wrong though, I-73 will not turn Florence into Columbia, or even Spartanburg, but it will give it a boost IMO.

[monsoon]

When I was growing up in Myrtle Beach, Florence was considered the "big town" as it was only 60 miles away, had an enclosed mall, the closest big major hospital, and was the location of the the closest TV station. (channel 13 WBTW) Everyone went to Florence if they wanted to do real shopping or other things that you could do in a big town. (at the time Myrtle Beach's pop was only 7500) Florence used to be great place to go Christmas shopping as not only was there a big mall, but the downtown had great shopping and was very festive during the holidays. It is a ghost town now.

In the period since then, Myrtle Beach has become the major city of the region with all the shopping, entertainment, access to global chains, medical care, etc that much much larger cities could only wish for. All of the Florence TV stations 13 & 15 identify themselves as Myrtle Beach stations now and have offices in Myrtle Beach. If it were not for FCC regulations I am sure they would have completely moved to the Beach area.

I think Myrtle Beach's success has hurt Florence and the addition of another Interstate will not help. In fact I think it will hurt Florence further as it will give the people in the PeeDee easier access to the Beach and that will continue to cause Florence to decline.

[vicupstate]

When I was growing up in Myrtle Beach, Florence was considered the "big town" as it was only 60 miles away, had an enclosed mall, the closest big major hospital, and was the location of the the closest  TV station.  (channel 13 WBTW)  Everyone went to Florence if they wanted to do real shopping or other things that you could do in a big town.  (at the time Myrtle Beach's pop was only 7500)  Florence used to be great place to go Christmas shopping as not only was there a big mall, but the downtown had great shopping and was very festive during the holidays.  It is a ghost town now.

In the period since then, Myrtle Beach has become the major city of the region with all the shopping,  entertainment, access to global chains,  medical care, etc that much much larger cities could only wish for. All of the Florence TV stations 13 & 15 identify themselves as Myrtle Beach stations now and have offices in Myrtle Beach.  If it were not for FCC regulations I am sure they would have completely moved to the Beach area. 

I think Myrtle Beach's success has hurt Florence and the addition of another Interstate will not help.  In fact I think it will hurt Florence further as it will give the people in the PeeDee easier access to the Beach and that will continue to cause Florence to decline.

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I agree for the most part, but not on a couple of points. Unless the Conway or MB hospital have grown dramitically since I saw them last, Florence is still has a much bigger medical presence. And the TV stations list themselves as both Florence and Myrtle Beach from what I have seen. They maintain offices in both cities. Since their towers would never go that close to the ocean (wasted signal), they will probably continue to do so.

[Spartan]

McLeod Medical Center in Florence is known as a top notch hospital. It will likely retain dominance in that area.

Florence is not a leader in tourism dollars. It is in the top half though.

Myrtle Beach will never be the "sole provider" for the TV stations down there. In the Upstate all the stations list Greenville, Spartanburg, Anderson, and Asheville. Most places that aren't dominated by one city (like Charlotte) have a similar set up. Perhaps the "hq" would move, but that is the worst I see happening.

[Mr.Marc]

And the TV stations list themselves as both Florence and Myrtle Beach from what I have seen. They maintain offices in both cities. Since their  towers would never go that close to the ocean (wasted signal), they will probably continue to do so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's right, I look at WBTW news every other night and they always say Florence/Myrtle Beach. I don't know the last time any of the people down grading Florence have been to the city, but from going there at least once a month, it's a pretty nice city for it's size. Reading the replys on this thread is the first time I have experienced people saying not so good things about Florence.

People tend to talk about downtowns, but few cities in South Carolina (other than Greenville and Charleston) have nice and developed downtowns. People no longer want to shop in just a downtown area of a city. To me doing all your shopping in just the downtown area of a city seems boring and pre-1980. I don't want to stay stuck in the downtown portion of the city, I like to explore the whole city.

[vicupstate]

Assuming this is true, this is a huge blow to Florence, in terms of morale and financially supporting the civic center. The Pride is the hockey team, BTW. More evidence of what monsoon wrote earlier

Reports: Pride to move

By DOUG REESE

Morning News

FLORENCE - The Pee Dee Pride are leaving Florence for Myrtle Beach, according reports in Thursday

[Charleston native]

McLeod Medical Center in Florence is known as a top notch hospital. It will likely retain dominance in that area...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't forget Carolinas Hospital Systems. They have a beautiful hospital located off of 2nd Loop Road. Next to it are nice shopping areas and a terrific recreation complex with several baseball fields.

Florence's main draw will continue to be the medical industry. It provides an interesting scenario, because MB keeps growing, yet is deficient in adequate health care providers. Will MB people have to go to Florence for some treatments?

BTW, that is bad news, vic. I am very disappointed that Florence couldn't keep its team. But it does make sense with MB's population.

[monsoon]

Most people needing really urgent and specialized care in Myrtle Beach go to the Medical University Hospital in Charleston. It's probably the best facility in the State.

[Spartan]

MB can sell to tourists better, so it sort of makes sense. I know that Pelicans games are often very crowded.

[Jerseyman4]

WBTW and Florence market is interesting to me, heres why:

It identifies itself as Florence/Myrtle Beach/Lumberton.

Lumberton was added to the DMA in the mid 1990s. I remember prior to the mid 90s, Raleigh was putting a lot of news down in Robeson County as well as WECT-Wilmington.

The transmitter is at TV Road near I-95 north of Florence. The WBTW signal is the clearest station you can get in freaking southern Moore County. Clearer than any Raleigh station and even CLEARER than WFMY in Greensboro (the transmitter is in Level Cross/10 miles south of Greensboro).

WBTW covers the border counties of Richmond(default DMA is Charlotte), Scotland, Robeson but could easily do Moore, Anson, Montgomery, Hoke, Cumberland, *Columbus and *Bladen counties too with a strong signal reaching them. The nearest strong CBS station for the counties in asterisk is either WNCT 9 out of Greenville or WRAL 5 in Raleigh. Wilmington CBS is on low power and can be best reached on cable outlets in a 3 county area (New Hanover, Onslow, Pender).

I believe the reason WBTW is located north of Florence is because of WCSC in Charleston that covers the just about all of the low country. But what has been neglected (at least acknowledgement) is SE NC with CBS stations being so far fetched, at least WRAL picks them up occasionally. I dont live in Florence but with Florence having no NBC station, WIS picks them up then i suppose as their default NBC station.

WBTW does a good job maintaining most anchors in the last 10 years at least. Maybe i could be wrong, its been a little while now since ive watched WBTW (since summer 04).

Unrelated to WBTW but WPDE digital signal gets to southern Moore county easily.. i know this for a fact because i have a HD tuner and i was using a coax wire hangin over a chair! I only got one other DT station and that was WFMY. WPDE puts out a pretty good analog signal being on the UHF band! Most certainly DT too.

WBTW does not cover a wide area (news wise) for its so called "viewing area" but its signal covers a wide area on analog. Digital signal is not at full power yet (4-1-05).

[monsoon]

Ironically when I was growing up it really was't possible to pick up Channel 13 with an antenna. (yes this was before most people had cable)

The two stations that served Myrtle Beach were in NC, WWAY Channel 3 in Wilmington and WECT Channel 6 in Charleston. Sometimes we could Channel 5 in Charlestion.

[95-Souf]

Was anyone comparing Florence to Miami? Florence is not cocaine capital of the world. Miami may only have a few or so interstate miles running through it, but that doesn't compare to the fact that it is on the ocean and many people know how to get to it by way of water (just ask Tony Montana).

Your right, no one was comparing Florence to Miami..

And i dont think Scareface's navigational skills has anything to do with my point.

If you would have got the message the first time around, you would have realized that in my reply, all I simply stated was that in Miami (Miami-Dade County), all we have is but a few miles of interstate highway that doesn't even intersect. It had absolutely nothing to do with a comparison of the two cities. It wouldn't even be a fair fight........ come on now,... Florence, SC vs. Miami, FL dont even get me started!

[Mr.Marc]

Your right, no one was comparing Florence to Miami..

And i dont think Scareface's navigational skills has anything to do with my point.

If you would have got the message the first time around, you would have realized that in my reply, all I simply stated was that in Miami (Miami-Dade County), all we have is but a few miles of interstate highway that doesn't even intersect. It had absolutely nothing to do with a comparison of the two cities. It wouldn't even be a fair fight........  come on now,... Florence, SC vs. Miami, FL dont even get me started!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Isn't Miami the last city in Florida before one gets to the ocean? That's why you only have a few miles of interstate or the rest would go under or over the ocean and we would have to call it an intercontinet.

[monsoon]

This comparison to Miami is pointless and should have never been brought into this conversation. Miami has I-95, I-75, and plenty of miles of limited access highways carring massive amounts of traffic. And lets us not forget that I-95 heading into Miami is a 12 lane monster carrying more traffic everyday than even exists in all of eastern SC.