DESTROYED: Providence Fruit & Produce Warehouse

[pdxstreetcar]

something about twin 12-story hotel towers spouting out of the warehouse

[Frankie811]

something about twin 12-story hotel towers spouting out of the warehouse

How solid is this rumor?

[provid]

man what a fine view of 95 that hotel will have.

[jencoleslaw]

i don't remember any towers when it came thru CPC but that was almost a year ago or so. i do remember entirely too much surface parking and not nearly enough trees .

[Mij]

i don't remember any towers when it came thru CPC but that was almost a year ago or so. i do remember entirely too much surface parking and not nearly enough trees .

did you really just trade mark "tree"?

[jencoleslaw]

no, i trade marked "entirely too much surface parking; not enough trees "

[Jerry2]

I think I know why this project doesn't seem to be advancing or at least no news. While braving the overgrown and un-maintained sidewalks of the Promenade yesterday on my brisk exercise walk, it seems the Audubon Society has put up plaques all over the river indicating that endangered falcons have been spotted around the area. It asks that people call if they spot them......It was the most signage I've seen in the area other than the Bay commission's sewage overflow stations....

[Cotuit]

Hmm, should I call?

[Garris]

I was just wondering about this place myself. Does anyone have any news?

- Garris

[Statesman]

Asked Maj Leader FOx about it. As far as he knows (He said he's been tracking it, becuase he hates that decripit old building like sin), it's still stuck in design review and IS poised to be Providence's Quincy Market. mmm...that'd be nice.

Then get a RISD crew to figure out what to do with under the mall.

[Frankie811]

Asked Maj Leader FOx about it. As far as he knows (He said he's been tracking it, becuase he hates that decripit old building like sin),

I also hate it. I can't believe that building survived 3 fires over the last 2 years. It's hard to get good help these days

[Mij]

I also hate it. I can't believe that building survived 3 fires over the last 2 years. It's hard to get good help these days

I thought is was becoming a Holiday Inn Express. As far as our attempt to recreate Quincy Market... I think the Arcade is the best attempt. I hope when 110 comes into it's own, ownership will do something to recreate the elements that make Quincy market so special.

[Baines]

I thought is was becoming a Holiday Inn Express. As far as our attempt to recreate Quincy Market... I think the Arcade is the best attempt. I hope when 110 comes into it's own, ownership will do something to recreate the elements that make Quincy market so special.

Well, since the Arcade is owned by the 110 people, I was told they intend to rehab it (sandblast the exterior, interior work, etc.) at some point during late stage of the tower construction.

As to a Quincy Market re-creation; I understood the thought was that 1) the Arcade is too small and is best suited for upscale shops in a newly vibrant and higher income district (the 110 owners want this for them!)and 2) the Providence Warehouse would be complimented by the Providence Place Mall...the demographic of shoppers, parking, and the proximity to Routes 6 and 95 (drawing from the whole metro).

[Jerry2]

Well, since the Arcade is owned by the 110 people, I was told they intend to rehab it (sandblast the exterior, interior work, etc.) at some point during late stage of the tower construction.

As to a Quincy Market re-creation; I understood the thought was that 1) the Arcade is too small and is best suited for upscale shops in a newly vibrant and higher income district (the 110 owners want this for them!)and 2) the Providence Warehouse would be complimented by the Providence Place Mall...the demographic of shoppers, parking, and the proximity to Routes 6 and 95 (drawing from the whole metro).

I'm not feeling the Quincy Market theme whatever in that area. This has been talked many times before, but it is a terrible location. Isn't that why it suffered in the past? I remember when it was open as a produce market and the whole grounds were filthy, unsanitary, and full of rats. It's such an odd spot that I culdn't even give a recommendation tas to what to put there, but the building should come down.

Hmm, should I call?

I am not kidding. Have you seen the signs? The bird in your photo is a peregrine falcon which were endangered a few years back but have rebounded in cities. Their staple food is pigeons. The signs say the mysterious bird is an american kestrel.

[mental757]

there are Kestrels all around the airport - they are smaller birds of prey than what many of you might think...

[Garris]

I'm not feeling the Quincy Market theme whatever in that area. This has been talked many times before, but it is a terrible location. Isn't that why it suffered in the past?

And didn't the Quincy Market idea also get tried and failed in Davol Square?

I'm not sold on the Quincy Market model, BTW. Quincy is mostly a Boston, Revolutionary-themed mall for tourists, with many of the same outlets you'd find in the suburban mall of your choice. Providence, in my opinion, already has its Quincy Market, and it's the Providence Place Mall, which really does play the same type of role for us.

Reading Terminal in Phily is probably a better model, and not one I'm sure would work for Providence quite yet. Reading is mostly a farmer's market mixed with a gourmet food market mixed with a kind of "best of" of local Philly eateries.

If most of the RI area farmers markets (downtown, Hope, etc) consolidated into the Produce Warehouse and then we added gourmet food sales and had vender stalls of the "Best of RI," from a Stanley's Burgers stall, to an Iggy's stall with clam cakes, to a Grey's stall with ice cream, to a Caserta stall with pizza, then we have a shot.

I still don't think the Produce Warehouse is the best locale (although much better than the Arcade, mostly because it's bigger with better surface parking and garage options). I think unless it phyically has some kind of connection (tunnel or covered roadway) and relationship with the mall, though, it won't fly. My $0.02...

I actually think something like this would fly much better in a location like the Peerless or future Grant's Block. Downcity badly, desperately needs some kind of signature attraction like this to attract foot traffic to other retail and people would be more likely to go to such a market if it had the feeling of being more of a shopping experience than just pulling up to and parking at the Produce Warehouse. A Reading-terminal-eque development in the heart of downcity would slay several dragons that are holding downtown back:

- it would be accessable

- it would be afforable

- it would be unique

- it would give downtown diverse eating options

- it would give downtown a market

However, I put this idea in the same category of "optimistic dream" that I put Cotuit's vision of Olneyville Square... Wonderful if it happens, but highly unlikely.

I wish the Produce Warehouse folks the best of luck, though, and do wish something would happen with it already...

- Garris

[gregw]

Davol Square was not really all that much like Quincy Market in the sense that it was not first and foremost a food emporium. It was more like a mixed use affair with retailers like Talbot's, office space, as well as food places when it opened. Its failure had a lot to do with where Providence was back in the 1980s and 90s when confidence in the city was very low. I'm sure lack of parking also played a role.

As for the Produce Warehouse, the fact that it is in a "crappy area" has a lot to do with the condition of the building itself. With the building properly restored, along with the 903 and the Promenade, with some road and sidewalk improvement, I don't see why that area wouldn't become instantly desirable

[mental757]

and it could tie-in nicely with my hopes for the riverwalk improvement from the mall to the Projo building - that whole area could become pretty vibrant with the Foundry, 903, the Promenade, riverwalk with new sidewalks, benches, trees (recchia), and quiet nooks. This 'market' idea could offer a wide range of amenities that the residents of those 3 complexes need day-to-day, which creates the pedestrian traffic...

[Frankie811]

there are Kestrels all around the airport - they are smaller birds of prey than what many of you might think...

Are they attacking 737's?

[Cotuit]

I still don't think the Produce Warehouse is the best locale (although much better than the Arcade, mostly because it's bigger with better surface parking and garage options). I think unless it phyically has some kind of connection (tunnel or covered roadway) and relationship with the mall, though, it won't fly. My $0.02...

I actually think something like this would fly much better in a location like the Peerless or future Grant's Block. Downcity badly, desperately needs some kind of signature attraction like this to attract foot traffic to other retail and people would be more likely to go to such a market if it had the feeling of being more of a shopping experience than just pulling up to and parking at the Produce Warehouse. A Reading-terminal-eque development in the heart of downcity would slay several dragons that are holding downtown back:

- it would be accessable

- it would be afforable

- it would be unique

- it would give downtown diverse eating options

- it would give downtown a market

I hate the idea of a "Quincy Market" at the Produce Warehouse. Let me first say, I think this is one time when comparing something to the Boston equivilent is a very poor analogy. I don't think anyone involved is really expected anything like Quincy Market, which is an outdoor shopping mall, with a central food court. I think they are more likely envisioning just the central food court, with some sort of market incorporated into it. A better comparison is the Portland (ME) Public Market or the Saint John, New Brunswick City Market (which I've been to and is wonderful). It should be noted that both of these are more or less, right downtown in their respective cities.

That said, I still think this is a very poor location for such a venture. First, it is behind the mall. It's not smart to build a tourist attraction behind something else. There's nothing to draw tourists to this area besides the proposed market. It's totally disconnected from Downcity and Federal Hill. Even the best work around to the under-the-mall passage is still going to leave this area seperate. Providence is small, there's only so many people, and so many visitors to go around, we should be focusing our visitor activity in defined areas, not trying to create new ones. Of course I don't mean that the Promenade should be left to fester, but I don't think that drawing visitors should part of the plan to renew. It should be a residential and business corridor with recreation activity for residents. If visitors happen upon it, fine, if not that's OK too.

I think good uses for the Produce Market are offices and/or artist live/work spaces.

Where would I put a Providence Market? The Dynamo House/Davol Square seems ideal to me. Greg is right, the former use of Davol Square didn't fail because Davol Square is/was bad, it failed because Providence was a sad pit at the time. With reinvestment in the Jewelry District, more residents, more offices, Heritage Harbor, and the Childrens' Museum, Davol is ideal. Another area I quite like, though it may not be large enough, is the last surface lot in the Union Station Complex just outisde RiRa. Build a large food hall on the ground level with small vendors as Garris described, then have an upper concourse for local artisans to display and sell their wares. It would get tremendous office worker traffic from the Financial District and Capital Center (maybe the lazy people in the State House Complex will walk down). It has built in residents with Waterplace and the Westin and Center Place. And it will be an added attraction during WaterFire giving WaterFire visitors an idea that Providence has more to offer and encouraging them to return on non-WaterFire nights.

[Frankie811]

I think good uses for the Produce Market are offices

I would agree, however this building is rather large and it probably wouldn't atract just one tenant. Perhaps this could be turned into office condos or several office spaces. There should be ample parking available for occupants. I believe this building has been deemed stable and safe from tests done by the state. Just how valuable would this property be if it had Amtrak & MBTA access. I suppose an artist flea market would be nice also. I was hoping for something like this on Westminster St., as was former Mayor Cianci. Imagine walking along Westminster St and seeing artists sketching people or blowing glass.

[DaveRPI]

I hate the idea of a "Quincy Market" at the Produce Warehouse. Let me first say, I think this is one time when comparing something to the Boston equivilent is a very poor analogy. I don't think anyone involved is really expected anything like Quincy Market, which is an outdoor shopping mall, with a central food court. I think they are more likely envisioning just the central food court, with some sort of market incorporated into it. A better comparison is the Portland (ME) Public Market or the Saint John, New Brunswick City Market (which I've been to and is wonderful). It should be noted that both of these are more or less, right downtown in their respective cities.

That said, I still think this is a very poor location for such a venture. First, it is behind the mall. It's not smart to build a tourist attraction behind something else. There's nothing to draw tourists to this area besides the proposed market. It's totally disconnected from Downcity and Federal Hill. Even the best work around to the under-the-mall passage is still going to leave this area seperate. Providence is small, there's only so many people, and so many visitors to go around, we should be focusing our visitor activity in defined areas, not trying to create new ones. Of course I don't mean that the Promenade should be left to fester, but I don't think that drawing visitors should part of the plan to renew. It should be a residential and business corridor with recreation activity for residents. If visitors happen upon it, fine, if not that's OK too.

I think good uses for the Produce Market are offices and/or artist live/work spaces.

Where would I put a Providence Market? The Dynamo House/Davol Square seems ideal to me. Greg is right, the former use of Davol Square didn't fail because Davol Square is/was bad, it failed because Providence was a sad pit at the time. With reinvestment in the Jewelry District, more residents, more offices, Heritage Harbor, and the Childrens' Museum, Davol is ideal. Another area I quite like, though it may not be large enough, is the last surface lot in the Union Station Complex just outisde RiRa. Build a large food hall on the ground level with small vendors as Garris described, then have an upper concourse for local artisans to display and sell their wares. It would get tremendous office worker traffic from the Financial District and Capital Center (maybe the lazy people in the State House Complex will walk down). It has built in residents with Waterplace and the Westin and Center Place. And it will be an added attraction during WaterFire giving WaterFire visitors an idea that Providence has more to offer and encouraging them to return on non-WaterFire nights.

i like the idea of the "food court" in the parking lot near RiRa... where there was a hotel proposal by GTech...

it would tie into the heart of our "tourist" areas and be a great meeting place from people north and south of waterplace that dont want to enter the mall

[Cotuit]

The architectural possibilities are great at this location too. I know there is a desire to match the other buildings, but I see a great crystal palace type of structure, maybe bringing in some brick work to tie it into the rest of the complex. The parking lot also sits a bit below Memorial Blvd. and Exchange Terrace allowing entrances from the streets onto what would be the second level and giving sweeping vistas across the floor of the market. From Union Station Plaza you would enter on the ground level and look up to the glass ceilings and arcades around the street level. A second tunnel could also be placed under Memorial Blvd. allowing for direct access from the riverwalk.

I've actually frequently seen this in my imagination, if only I were madly rich I would build it myself.

EDIT: Also, having all this food to take away would encourage people to dine in Waterplace Park and Burnside Park. Set up picnic tables and people will eat there lunch their. The picnic tables at Memorial Square along the river are all full at lunch.

[Frankie811]

EDIT: Also, having all this food to take away would encourage people to dine in Waterplace Park and Burnside Park. Set up picnic tables and people will eat there lunch their. The picnic tables at Memorial Square along the river are all full at lunch.

I can't remember, but can you even access the park from under the mall?

[Cotuit]

I can't remember, but can you even access the park from under the mall?

Waterplace from under/behind the mall? You have to walk up the stairs over the train tracks, then cross Francis Street, then walk back down. The train tracks are the issue, they are right at the same level as the river walks. And the train tracks aren't going anywhere now.