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The Motley Fool takes on the Central Florida theme park wars and suggests why the Comcast CEO decided to weigh in on them during  the most recent earnings call.

Best of all for us, The Fool suggests that our already white-hot #1 industry is just getting started on an amazing growth period. 

Assuming the national economy holds, we're in for an amazing ride to rival some of our best coasters. This suggests I4 Ultimate may already be overflowing by the time it's completed. We sound more and more like Atlanta every day.

https://www.fool.com/amp/investing/2018/07/28/will-fantastic-worlds-breathe-new-life-into-disney.aspx

 

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On ‎7‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 1:17 PM, IAmFloridaBorn said:

Universal has started foundation work on Phase 2 of the new extremely long hotel name  that is replacing Wet N Wild.

Are you talking about the Wet n Wild side of Universal Blvd adjacent to the lake, or Wet n Wild's parking lot on the other side of Universal Blvd where that other larger hotel is going?

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35 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Are you talking about the Wet n Wild side of Universal Blvd adjacent to the lake, or Wet n Wild's parking lot on the other side of Universal Blvd where that other larger hotel is going?

Phase 2 i'm referring to is where Wet N Wilds parking lot was. Phase 1 near the lake is where the current towers are. I'll try and get photos tomorrow.

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Just now, jrs2 said:

No kidding...wow...how did I miss this?

Because Universal moves fast. I drove by two weeks ago, nothing, then a few days ago, dirt, land clearing, and some construction equiptment moving quickly for foundation work. hey want phase 2 open in 2020 and it's supposed to have over 2000 rooms. They definitely have to get moving.

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Been waiting all day for someone to post this article. 

Considering how some people follow every little move made by the theme park operators, I am surprised nobody posted this.

(Who needs to hear both sides of an issue anyway?   Who needs or cares about objectivity?)

https://m.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2018/07/30/seaworld-had-a-horrible-july

Mr. Storey should be commended for keeping it real.  It not all rainbows and unicorns. Great journalism. 

Edited by I am Reality
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38 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

Been waiting all day for someone to post this article. 

Considering how some people follow every little move made by the theme park operators, I am surprised nobody posted this.

(Who needs to hear both sides of an issue anyway?   Who needs or cares about objectivity?)

https://m.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2018/07/30/seaworld-had-a-horrible-july

Mr. Storey should be commended for keeping it real.  It not all rainbows and unicorns. Great journalism. 

wow.  I had no idea that SW had a Chinese partner.  As for the issue of showcasing whales per the article, I dunno.  Shedd in Chicago has a Beluga Whale attraction.  Why won't CNN make a report on that?  Oh wait, it's Chicago...need I say more?

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1 hour ago, I am Reality said:

Been waiting all day for someone to post this article. 

Considering how some people follow every little move made by the theme park operators, I am surprised nobody posted this.

(Who needs to hear both sides of an issue anyway?   Who needs or cares about objectivity?)

https://m.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2018/07/30/seaworld-had-a-horrible-july

Mr. Storey should be commended for keeping it real.  It not all rainbows and unicorns. Great journalism. 

I don't think people have been positive on SeaWorld for quite some time. Since Anaheuser Busch lost interest in theme parks and sold them off, its been trouble. Selling them to Blackstone Group, which also previously nearly destroyed Universal's theme parks, was a huge sign of trouble.

My opinion is initially SeaWorld was way too concerned with defending itself with the Blackfish film, a simply press release saying its not true and these are all the things we do and programs we have to help the animals should have been it. Changing the park to try to please a bunch of people who literally hate your company and the work you do and would never even think about paying you a dime and stepping foot on your property was an absolutely insane strategy, and they went with that for many, many, many years, and its hard to undo that damage. The shows went from being impressive to being "look we're not a terrible company" and the things people visited SeaWorld for disappeared. Bringing back the free beer was a start, and hopefully they'll fix their issues. Up until last year, they were still the most visited theme park in the USA that was not owned by Disney or Universal (overtaken last year by Knott's Berry Farm). They're down 2 million people a year over the last decade, when literally everyone else in the world is up and the industry is booming.

SeaWorld fired its CEO earlier this year, and we'll have to see how the new CEO does. Since SeaWorld's demise, the 2 million people have been looking for other places to go, its not that demand wasn't here in Orlando. We had the thrill park proposal (rejected by county), we had another theme park operator interested in entering the market, but that didn't work out (possibly WWE), and of course, the biggest news of them all, Universal looking to build not just one new park, but 3 new parks, 2 dry ones and 1 more water park, as revealed by their lawsuit, in the near term future. (I also have a suspicion Universal was also the potential buyer for Artegon and the large empty parcel to the south of it, but it was very secondary option to their primary choice of what they got, and thats why whatever the original deal was, it obviously entirely fell through, it probably would have only fit a single theme park and hotel, and caused Universal's properties to be much more split up then they'd have liked)

SeaWorld needs an ownership group with a lot of capital to stop cutting costs and make it an attractive place to be. SeaWorld Orlando has an amazing location, right next to Universal's new south campus, and between Universal and Disney. There's just flat out no excuse why they shouldn't be able to make things work. The content companies seem to see some writing on the wall they need to diversify and their is tons of money on the table, so to me, the answer is clear: SeaWorld needs to sell itself to a major content owner with deep pockets. I don't think Comcast or Disney are interested, they're managing to crush SeaWorld as is, but there is a lot to gain for competitors to them to get an established park and start installing their IP into it to push merchandise and promote their brands. SeaWorld needs to be trying to sell itself to AT&T, Verizon, CBS/Viacom or one of these other companies that isn't in the market yet. When Comcast bought Universal, it really showed how much a theme park can be turned around by getting deep pockets behind it. Keep these numbers in mind: in 2009, the last year Blackstone owned Universal, and SeaWorld Orlando had 5.8 million through their gates, Studios had 5.5, and IOA had 4.6. SeaWorld Orlando was literally bigger and more popular then Universal Orlando 9 years ago. People were very concerned when Comcast bought Universal they had little interest in its failing theme parks, and they'd be left to die, but now literally everyone has realized just how wrong they were, with Universal Orlando nearly doubling its numbers in both parks and SeaWorld losing nearly half its visitors. SeaWorld needs its Comcast to get over the real scandal: Blackstone owning them, nothing to do with Blackfish (their attendance decline started 4 years before the movie came out). Blackstone bought the majority of SeaWorld after getting rid of Universal Orlando in 2009.

Without an acquisition, it seems their hope is they can become the thrill park that most analysts believe Orlando badly needs. Even though I think Orlando could use a thrill park, I remain unconvinced Sea World is doing what it takes to succeed in that position, but perhaps the return of free beer is the first sign that they'll manage it. To me, implementing IPs into the parks is critical for SeaWorld to succeed as they've gone too far off track with the animal themed business, attacking themselves for too long.

 

 

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22 hours ago, aent said:

I don't think people have been positive on SeaWorld for quite some time. Since Anaheuser Busch lost interest in theme parks and sold them off, its been trouble. Selling them to Blackstone Group, which also previously nearly destroyed Universal's theme parks, was a huge sign of trouble.

My opinion is initially SeaWorld was way too concerned with defending itself with the Blackfish film, a simply press release saying its not true and these are all the things we do and programs we have to help the animals should have been it. Changing the park to try to please a bunch of people who literally hate your company and the work you do and would never even think about paying you a dime and stepping foot on your property was an absolutely insane strategy, and they went with that for many, many, many years, and its hard to undo that damage. The shows went from being impressive to being "look we're not a terrible company" and the things people visited SeaWorld for disappeared. Bringing back the free beer was a start, and hopefully they'll fix their issues. Up until last year, they were still the most visited theme park in the USA that was not owned by Disney or Universal (overtaken last year by Knott's Berry Farm). They're down 2 million people a year over the last decade, when literally everyone else in the world is up and the industry is booming.

SeaWorld fired its CEO earlier this year, and we'll have to see how the new CEO does. Since SeaWorld's demise, the 2 million people have been looking for other places to go, its not that demand wasn't here in Orlando. We had the thrill park proposal (rejected by county), we had another theme park operator interested in entering the market, but that didn't work out (possibly WWE), and of course, the biggest news of them all, Universal looking to build not just one new park, but 3 new parks, 2 dry ones and 1 more water park, as revealed by their lawsuit, in the near term future. (I also have a suspicion Universal was also the potential buyer for Artegon and the large empty parcel to the south of it, but it was very secondary option to their primary choice of what they got, and thats why whatever the original deal was, it obviously entirely fell through, it probably would have only fit a single theme park and hotel, and caused Universal's properties to be much more split up then they'd have liked)

SeaWorld needs an ownership group with a lot of capital to stop cutting costs and make it an attractive place to be. SeaWorld Orlando has an amazing location, right next to Universal's new south campus, and between Universal and Disney. There's just flat out no excuse why they shouldn't be able to make things work. The content companies seem to see some writing on the wall they need to diversify and their is tons of money on the table, so to me, the answer is clear: SeaWorld needs to sell itself to a major content owner with deep pockets. I don't think Comcast or Disney are interested, they're managing to crush SeaWorld as is, but there is a lot to gain for competitors to them to get an established park and start installing their IP into it to push merchandise and promote their brands. SeaWorld needs to be trying to sell itself to AT&T, Verizon, CBS/Viacom or one of these other companies that isn't in the market yet. When Comcast bought Universal, it really showed how much a theme park can be turned around by getting deep pockets behind it. Keep these numbers in mind: in 2009, the last year Blackstone owned Universal, and SeaWorld Orlando had 5.8 million through their gates, Studios had 5.5, and IOA had 4.6. SeaWorld Orlando was literally bigger and more popular then Universal Orlando 9 years ago. People were very concerned when Comcast bought Universal they had little interest in its failing theme parks, and they'd be left to die, but now literally everyone has realized just how wrong they were, with Universal Orlando nearly doubling its numbers in both parks and SeaWorld losing nearly half its visitors. SeaWorld needs its Comcast to get over the real scandal: Blackstone owning them, nothing to do with Blackfish (their attendance decline started 4 years before the movie came out). Blackstone bought the majority of SeaWorld after getting rid of Universal Orlando in 2009.

Without an acquisition, it seems their hope is they can become the thrill park that most analysts believe Orlando badly needs. Even though I think Orlando could use a thrill park, I remain unconvinced Sea World is doing what it takes to succeed in that position, but perhaps the return of free beer is the first sign that they'll manage it. To me, implementing IPs into the parks is critical for SeaWorld to succeed as they've gone too far off track with the animal themed business, attacking themselves for too long.

 

 

I can't really disagree with much of what you wrote.  Makes a lot of sense.

I wouldn't underestimate the impact of Blackfish though.   I've seen it a couple of times, but don't necessarily believe a lot of what's in it.  But in my mind, Blackfish reinforced much of what I already suspected.   Some animals don't deserve to be in captivity.  I know a lot of people who feel the same way.   In my case, I have been whale-watching a few times on the West Coast.  It was totally life-changing.  

My beliefs are totally unaffected by SeaWorld's location in Orlando.  To make it an Orlando issue kind of misses the larger point.   Wrong is wrong. 

Edited by I am Reality
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Oddly enough, I spent a lot of time in Seaworld last month and found myself wondering what their best strategy would be in the current market. It was noticeably less full at the main park than my experience at the other attractions during the summer high season.  However, Aquatica remains packed (was at capacity and turning guests away several times I was down there), and Discovery Cove remains a hit for it's exclusivity if nothing else. There are a number of things going for Seaworld.  It's location, as mentioned, is fabulous (it's also the closest park to the convention center and it's surrounding hotels). It has the start for carving a "thrill park"-like niche in Orlando (all three major roller coasters are excellent and unique in their ride structure for the area, and Infinity Falls is being marketed as a thrill-type ride although I'm always skeptical of those raft-based attractions being a big hit), and it has the second best toddler-age "IP" in town to Disney (Sesame Street, which they are in the process of expanding in the park).

However, they obviously have some big problems.  Blackfish, and their terribly executed response, is part of it.  The next generation of young parents (ie potential customers) has strong feeling about these things - ask Barnum and Bailey.  Blackstone was awful for the park - not only the lack of visionary foresight, but the little things too.  It's difficult not to feel like you're being nickel-and-dimed at every turn in Seaworld compared to Disney or Universal.  They confiscate even small amounts of food, the lockers at the roller coasters are strongly enforced but not provided for free, casual employees are disengaged...heck, they don't open the back part of the park until an hour after the front some mornings and there's no sign or communication about it - you walk back and find a rope blocking it off (and an employee if you're lucky).

Best case scenario is laid out above (bought by deep pockets), but even then it matters what those pockets do. Their newer non-coaster rides have been flops (the penguin thing is cool, but honestly do you think it pulls anyone at all in who wasn't already going?  I feel the same about Infinity Falls).  The shows are no longer thrilling. Aquatica is an excellent water park but Volcano bay is changing that whole landscape.  I hope they pivot towards roller coasters and fill that void. It costs much less than the amazing IP-based dark rides Disney and Universal are throwing out there and yet offers an attraction that there's still a market for.  They could also still hedge on the aquatic theme and build a major resort hotel - the proximity to OCCC would make it all the more attractive. Their future is Roller Coasters and Beer.  There, I said it.

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A lot of it comes down to the same problem Universal used to have: too many temporary owners with no long-term stake in their success.

One big reason Disney still rules the roost is that it's always been Disney. From the company's inception in 1923 and Disneyland's development in the 1950's, it's been one management. There was a hiccup in 1984 as control passed from Walt's side of the family to Roy's, but there was always someone looking after the brand.

Universal didn't begin to get that until GE came along and it has only fully been realized under Comcast (albeit with the thinking of Mouse House alum Steve Burke.)

Sea World's most successful period was under ownership by Anheuser-Busch. Busch never viewed the parks as a cash cow; instead, the purpose was to make America feel good about the country's largest brewer. As a result, good show outweighed profits. Unless Sea World gets back to steady ownership, it probably will continue to devolve into irrelevance. 

Perhaps the biggest tragedy of that is not even the Sea World parks but Busch Gardens Williamsburg. What was widely regarded as the country's most beautiful theme park is rapidly becoming an afterthought.

 

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

Merlin? 

Maybe, although the solid second-tier firm Cedar Fair (Cedar Point and Knott's Berry Farm) might be my first choice.

Another choice might be Herschend (Dollywood) although I've never been sure if the emphasis on quality is more because of Herschend or Dolly.

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Well heck, I just tried to look up Merlin's financials to see if they would be even viable size-wise and apparently Blackstone bought them too?  I didn't know that. I thought it would be a good choice for the great conversion they did to transform Cypress Gardens into LegoLand. That type of rebranding seems to be something that would be needed for SeaWorld to succeed. 

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6 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

Well heck, I just tried to look up Merlin's financials to see if they would be even viable size-wise and apparently Blackstone bought them too?  I didn't know that. I thought it would be a good choice for the great conversion they did to transform Cypress Gardens into LegoLand. That type of rebranding seems to be something that would be needed for SeaWorld to succeed. 

work with me on this:  Coca Cola no longer sponsors the Orlando Eye.  They used to also sponsor the London Eye, thru Merlin.  Could it be that b/c of Blackstone's involvement they decided to ditch those sponsorships for $$$ reasons. which is why the OE is now Icon Orlando?

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1 hour ago, dcluley98 said:

Merlin? 

Merlin treats there parks like a turd internationally.  The only parks they put real money into are the Legoland ones, and that is only because the owners of Lego force them to invest in the parks to keep the IP rights.  I don't think that is who will make SeaWorld successful again.

Cedar Fair is going through a rough point, but some of their parks are doing okay, specifically Knott's.

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I personally don't think Merlin or any of the other traditional theme park operators will do well with SeaWorld. It needs a content company with deep pockets. Someone who flat out wants to compete with Comcast and Disney. To me, the choices are: AT&T, Viacom, CBS, or Warner, and that is literally just about it. Without that, just invest in more thrill rides. Stop with these "educational" performances that are supposed to educate people about all the things SeaWorld does for animals without showing off the animals as the primary purpose. Either ignore the haters and do spectacular performances with the animals as you used to, or give up the animal based shows entirely. A boring, zoo quality show is just not appropriate for SeaWorld, and thats what it has turned into. Most of the real animal lovers were encouraged and inspired by seeing what we could train these animals to do, getting to be up close and personal with them, etc. Its the PETA types that really hated the show, but they are literally never going to go to SeaWorld. Other aquariums are doing well right now as well, so its not that people don't like the animal topic anymore.

Its still named SeaWorld, and it has the name recognition. Outside of an acquisition by one of the aforementioned companies, I personally like the idea of coaster and thrill rides themed to aquatic animals, claiming (and hopefully meeting those claims) that they follow the motion of certain sea animals. One of the other ways thats SeaWorld really got screwed by Blackstone was exactly the same as Universal did as well: they sold off all the excess land around the park. SeaWorld no doubt should be building hotels. While Universal's stepped it up a notch, I think an aquarium themed high end hotel could still attract a ton of people. Infact, I think many would be willing to stay there over what Universal offers, and if they have a shuttle service to Universal, could easily start peeling a day or 2 off of the now week long Universal vacations, and steal the hotel stays as well. Build a parking garage to reduce the footprint of your parking lot and free up some space for a high end themed hotel. Build a lower end themed resort or two (possibly one themed to Sesame Street, and a second with a more generic beach theme) on the remaining empty property south of Aquatica, with a bit more shopping to compete with CityWalk/Disney Springs, on a much smaller scale.

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15 hours ago, aent said:

I personally don't think Merlin or any of the other traditional theme park operators will do well with SeaWorld. It needs a content company with deep pockets. Someone who flat out wants to compete with Comcast and Disney. To me, the choices are: AT&T, Viacom, CBS, or Warner, and that is literally just about it. Without that, just invest in more thrill rides. Stop with these "educational" performances that are supposed to educate people about all the things SeaWorld does for animals without showing off the animals as the primary purpose. Either ignore the haters and do spectacular performances with the animals as you used to, or give up the animal based shows entirely. A boring, zoo quality show is just not appropriate for SeaWorld, and thats what it has turned into. Most of the real animal lovers were encouraged and inspired by seeing what we could train these animals to do, getting to be up close and personal with them, etc. Its the PETA types that really hated the show, but they are literally never going to go to SeaWorld. Other aquariums are doing well right now as well, so its not that people don't like the animal topic anymore.

Its still named SeaWorld, and it has the name recognition. Outside of an acquisition by one of the aforementioned companies, I personally like the idea of coaster and thrill rides themed to aquatic animals, claiming (and hopefully meeting those claims) that they follow the motion of certain sea animals. One of the other ways thats SeaWorld really got screwed by Blackstone was exactly the same as Universal did as well: they sold off all the excess land around the park. SeaWorld no doubt should be building hotels. While Universal's stepped it up a notch, I think an aquarium themed high end hotel could still attract a ton of people. Infact, I think many would be willing to stay there over what Universal offers, and if they have a shuttle service to Universal, could easily start peeling a day or 2 off of the now week long Universal vacations, and steal the hotel stays as well. Build a parking garage to reduce the footprint of your parking lot and free up some space for a high end themed hotel. Build a lower end themed resort or two (possibly one themed to Sesame Street, and a second with a more generic beach theme) on the remaining empty property south of Aquatica, with a bit more shopping to compete with CityWalk/Disney Springs, on a much smaller scale.

they said they were going to do that last year; get into the hotel business...  

I agree about building a garage and reclaiming land.  I think they have parking on the opposite side of Sea Harbor Drive; they could build a garage there and reclaim all the surface parking for expansion or a resort(s).

I agree about a themed resort; they could really make a name for themselves with a large resort with aquariums in it or something.  could be awesome.

 

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The TDT was on fire in June, up 16% over the same month in 2017. For the year so far, collections are ahead 10% for the year.

At the moment, extra funds seem to be increasingly earmarked for special events including Special Olympics and the latest round of WrestleMania.

Orange County hotel tax revenue jumps 16 percent in June
http://bit.ly/2n7WLIJ

From the Sentinel

A side note: Sea World reports earnings Monday. Be on the lookout to see if their nascent recovery takes hold.

 

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