Orlando Attractions Area News & Developments

[jrs2]

57 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

Saw the plans for this new ride today. It is an entirely new ride. Actually, it is quite a bit more than just the ride, with them completely removing the old dueling coasters and using the area to build on in Hogsmeade area, but none of us can say anything about it, LOL.  So let's just say that there are a lot of rumors out there and probably a several of them happen to be true, and if so, it is gonna be a magical ride experience!

Are you working on this?

[prahaboheme]

3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

I know, but Universal still makes money- enough to keep at it with Disney financially.  So, if they can still make money while still having to pay extra for their infrastructure and not increase ticket prices any more than their trend setting rival, then Disney can do the same with their parks.  IMO. 

I think that Disney should operate as though they have limited land if they are to be taken seriously as a friend to the environment.

A daily park hopper at the Anaheim resort is a better bang for your buck than Walt Disney or the Uni's on both coasts.  It's also much more strapped for available land.

[dcluley98]

15 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Are you working on this?

No, just saw some plans. I can't really say anything else. 

[jrs2]

25 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

No, just saw some plans. I can't really say anything else. 

I figured.  Same here.  I was told some stuff about that proposal for South & Garland recently, so I spoke in code in that thread in case anybody was, you know...

[dcluley98]

Gotcha, I was wondering why you were spelling stuff Fun-eeh last week!

[AndyPok1]

While they may not be doing it the way you'd like them to, Disney has a pretty significant environmental program. https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/environment

Also, Walt Disney World specifically at this point does offset mitigation for all new construction projects that require impacting nature, they just don't publicize it.  There's over 12000 acres in Osceola county that are a nature preserve from Disney, and they regularly buy additional parcels when they need to do more offsets. https://www.nature.org/ourinitiatives/regions/northamerica/unitedstates/florida/placesweprotect/the-disney-wilderness-preserve.xml

 

[aent]

 

6 hours ago, codypet said:

I feel like the convention center or I don't know Walmart/Target/HomeDepot/Lowe's and larger Publix roofs provide a perfect opportunity to put rooftop solar.   When I landed from the north, I was floored at the sea of retail buildings that didn't have solar.  It's such a missed opportunity.

My understanding is its often just not cost effective. The roofs can need reinforcement to handle the added weight, and it makes leaks more difficult to repair, and the solar panels life is then relegated to the life of the roof, as its not expected to be cost effective to take all the solar panels, reroof the building, and then reinstall 10 or 15 or 20 year old solar panels that are not performing like new ones and have a more limited life left after all that labor cost. Installing them on the ground makes maintenance easier on them, and allows them to be used for their entire useful life, limiting waste and preventing them from being sent to a landfill early (or dirty attempts at refurbishing).

Of the people with commercial establishments that I know who installed solar panels, every single one re-roofed the structure prior to installing them, and doing that made it a HUGE upfront expense for them. And when they're doing that early, that also means you're spending extra money, and producing extra waste sent to the landfill. Its really not so simple. On a new building, it makes things much simpler, but the solar panels still could end up losing 20-50% of their useful life by being on the roof instead of being on the ground.

5 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

[...]

Also interesting is the possibility of a water park by a name operator (although I'm not convinced anyone can compete with the Mouse or Uni on that score anymore.)

It also notes the possibility of a fourth Fun Spot.

[...]

Wet N Wild maintained the #3 busiest waterpark in the US until aquatica opened, then dropped to #4 for the rest of its life. And aquatica opening only seemed to take a 10% hit on its attendance temporarily, which is recovered from before its closure, resulting in a net 1.4 million water park visits a year when it opened. Volcano Bay is hitting capacity every single day, and my understanding is Aquatica has hit it a bit this summer too. The Orlando market seems like it was ready for Volcano Bay to be flat out added to it, not for it to replace Wet N Wild. The demand is very clearly there... we need a Wet N Wild replacement. And while Universal did own them at the end, it wasn't a real Universal park.

As for Fun Spot... I really don't see why they would want a third Orlando location. It seems they should try to build out what they have better and build the water park... I'm sure just like they had to wait and see how Volcano Bay did and if there was still demand for it, they will want to do the same for this Margaritavilla water park

 

4 hours ago, jrs2 said:

[...] So, is cutting down hundreds of Pine trees in exchange for a small Mickey Ears solar farm that big of a deal ala carbon? Should they be applauded for this?  What about the notion of all the trees that don't exist in place of asphalt ocean theme park parking lots on their property? They don't even do a good job of mixing in tree coverage within those lots.  Ever been to Animal Kingdom and seen their fully tree-less parking lot?  It's pathetically barren, and it's relatively new.

They can start reducing their carbon footprint by planting a couple of thousand shade trees in their parking lots- with irrigation- if they want to impress me.  Otherwise, stop tearing down trees for a solar farm. 

So, how many megawatts have they saved from that small solar farm vs the coal they haven't had to burn as a result of using it?  I'm not going to get into a debate about coal vs clean coal, or alternative clean energy arguments.  What about Crystal River?  Isn't that a nuclear power plant?  How far does it's service territory extend?  What about wind energy? 

Central Florida isn't Nevada.  It is not acceptable to tear down trees in favor of solar farms under the guise of reducing one's carbon footprint.  Period.  They should be made to replace those trees elsewhere.

Or, at EPCOT, for example, They need to look at peak attendance numbers over the past 5 years, see how much of the parking lot is unnecessary, and then built the solar farm on former parking space areas of that lot.

Seriously, am I the only tree-huger on these boards?

I personally try to be a realist and am definitely not a tree-hugger but am pretty pro-environment. Every company (or person) needs to start somewhere, and thats a significant and positive investment Disney did with their solar farm. If people don't like it, don't expect Disney to do more of it (or at least do it publicly, maybe they'll do it more privately if it makes financial sense). I view the cutting down of the pine trees as something that likely was bound to happen anyways, I'm sure it was used for lumber which is in demand, so cutting it down there simpily meant not cut down somewhere else anyways. I used to have 4 pine tree farms near where I live, and they were all cut down for lumber over the past couple years... and 3 of them are sitting as barren waste land (only 1 was replanted), and its been that way for a couple years now. Disney did better then that... they at least stuck solar on the land. As far as the sourcing of energy, for the most part, we aren't generally replacing or shutting down other sources of energy when solar or wind comes online... its pretty consistently replacing coal because thats the most economical to replace. Nuclear is a sunken cost in the plant, it doesn't make sense to not produce as much energy as you can out of it since it costs so little to operate after the sunken costs. Natural gas is cheap. Coal is whats getting replaced.

Also, while EPCOT hasn't had the explosive growth that the Magic Kingdom has had, it hasn't had any drops in attendance, and Disney seems to have a goal of trying to get their other parks to be more popular to take some of the burden off of Magic Kingdom. Its still #2 in Orlando, and #3 in the USA

4 hours ago, jrs2 said:

I know, but Universal still makes money- enough to keep at it with Disney financially.  So, if they can still make money while still having to pay extra for their infrastructure and not increase ticket prices any more than their trend setting rival, then Disney can do the same with their parks.  IMO. 

I think that Disney should operate as though they have limited land if they are to be taken seriously as a friend to the environment.

Obviously the main focus is on what customers want, and I know many have said Universal's dense atmosphere is a disadvantage to them over Disney (I personally disagree, to me its an advantage). There is clearly demand for both ways, and if Disney changes its ambiance into a more urban style and people don't like it, they have a lot to lose. Along with the rest of Orlando if it does lose.

[jrs2]

^^

Well, it is not innovative to cut down pine trees is my main point.  Put the solar farm within the grass median of World Drive instead, and make it five times as massive.  World Drive, Osceola Parkway, etc.  That's innovation.

I think they do more damage by removing those trees than good in the clean kilowatt trade off, because trees filter the air we breathe. 

 

[jack]

Call me a hater, but trees grow back. And pine trees grow back especially fast. 

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, jack said:

Call me a hater, but trees grow back. And pine trees grow back especially fast. 

LOL.  You darn tree hater, you!

[spenser1058]

Slinky Dog Dash track at DHS completed today as construction moves forward for Toy Story Land to open in 2018:

https://m.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2017/08/01/toy-story-lands-slinky-dog-dash-track-is-now-completed

(From Orlando Weekly)

[spenser1058]

Crayola Experience is adding a new immersive adventure at its Florida Mall location.

I continue to be impressed with how Florida Mall, after losing out to Millennia in the race to be the region's upscale mall (and probably even more so now that Disney Springs has gone upmarket), found was that s like this to keep itself relevant.

From Orlando Rising:

http://orlando-rising.com/crayola-experience-adds-a-new-attraction-to-its-lineup/

[jrs2]

I gotta tell ya, Florida Mall did a great job with it's new food court.  It resembles Millennia's a little bit but also has a wall of retail stores incorporated within the "square".

The dead spot in front of Dillards is gone now.  The soccer store is there and new couches, etc, and skylights.  Night and day.  literally.

The outdoor portion is really nice with the H&M, Zara, the doll store, Forever 21, etc,

The new main entrance is better than the last one.  It has indoor outdoor seating at restaurant(s) and it is close to the food court from the outside, where a couple of eateries have outdoor seating as well.  It's not a bad redo on that side.

The center is nice with the hanging light boards, etc.  couple all of that with the last newest wing where Crayola and Dicks now currently are, with Apple, MS, etc, Macy's, and the place is pretty impressive.

I think what could really boost business even more would be if they built parking decks around it and expanded it even more.

The Maglev station would've been nice, but, oh well.

The redo they are doing/proposing for Fashion Square- if they did that at Florida Mall, with urban apts, etc., that would be terrific.  All of these malls, they should partner with developers to build urban apts adjacent to their malls with direct connects or whatever to the malls.  Millennia has done a great job with these apts so far.  Florida Mall should consider that as well.

[spenser1058]

Poppins to Epcot? Maybe. Watch out for Admiral Boom!

From Orlando Weekly:

https://m.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2017/08/07/mary-poppins-cherry-tree-lane-may-be-headed-to-epcot

[HankStrong]

13 hours ago, jrs2 said:

and skylights.  Night and day.  literally.

I think what could really boost business even more would be if they built parking decks around it and expanded it even more.

You almost made me jump on the literally comment, as you are completely using that figuratively, but the skylights made it technically literal, too.  Good show.

Amen to this.  That lot on the NE corner could be a good spot or an even better one would be that shopping center beside Target.  Parking there and a conveyor to the mall, which could expand to fill the entire NE lot.  Another good spot would be between the hotel and the Macy's.  You could put a solid parking deck there. 

[jrs2]

3 hours ago, HankStrong said:

You almost made me jump on the literally comment, as you are completely using that figuratively, but the skylights made it technically literal, too.  Good show.

Amen to this.  That lot on the NE corner could be a good spot or an even better one would be that shopping center beside Target.  Parking there and a conveyor to the mall, which could expand to fill the entire NE lot.  Another good spot would be between the hotel and the Macy's.  You could put a solid parking deck there. 

Altamonte Mall, Fashion Square Mall, Pointe Orlando, Dellagio, I-Drive 360, Disney Springs, Citywalk, Premium Outlets Vineland- each of these retail centers have garages incorporated into them.  It's ridiculous that still, today, Millennia Mall and Florida Mall- and Premium Outlets I-Drive, do not have garages yet.  Premium needs one the most. 

[prahaboheme]

Garages are costly to build and maintain - most of those places with garages are land locked and built them out of necessity. I think Millenia will get to that point before the Florida Mall.

[jrs2]

13 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Garages are costly to build and maintain - most of those places with garages are land locked and built them out of necessity. I think Millenia will get to that point before the Florida Mall.

I thought for sure Maglev was a go and that a station would go at Florida mall and that they would expand it to meet the station or incorporate it into an expansion somehow which would include a parking deck or what have you.

I do agree about Millennia building a garage first between the two.  But now that Premium owns both outlets and there is no longer a competition between the two malls, I doubt the I-Drive location will build a garage.

[Boomer136]

15 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Poppins to Epcot? Maybe. Watch out for Admiral Boom!

From Orlando Weekly:

https://m.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2017/08/07/mary-poppins-cherry-tree-lane-may-be-headed-to-epcot

Change by neglect. Kill off the culturally accurate entertainment, which was popular BTW, but more expensive than kids in fur or animatronics. I guess they'll still get the hospitality majors from the countries represented and no one will mind the cultural appropriation. Truthy over truth.

[spenser1058]

1 hour ago, Boomer136 said:

Change by neglect. Kill off the culturally accurate entertainment, which was popular BTW, but more expensive than kids in fur or animatronics. I guess they'll still get the hospitality majors from the countries represented and no one will mind the cultural appropriation. Truthy over truth.

There's certainly some of that but there are other factors at play also, I think. First, Walt was a big believer in edutainment. If you look at the weekly shows he did on ABC/NBC, he made both smart shows and cartoons (sometimes both), because he approved the scripts he liked.

Compare that with Michael Eisner's version which was pure entertainment. It made sense because Michael came up through ABC during the LOP days (Least Objectionable Programming, coined by Fred Silverman - essentially, program the dumbest thing you could because people would still watch; indeed, that was the smartest thing to do because if you ticked off politicians with Smothers Brothers or Norman Lear, they'd try to yank your local station licenses.) With that mindset, they never understood Epcot (which had drifted from the beginning after Walt died.) 

Remember that founders can do things subsequent CEO's can't. Apple will never be the same under Tim Cook as it was under Steve Jobs because Wall St won't let it. Amazon won't be able to get away without profits once Jeff Bezos retires, either. Starbucks went through something similar when Howard Schultz stepped down, he had to come back to save it.

Another thing we've run into is Princess Mania. Disneyland, if you think about it, was originally a very boycentric park when Davy Crockett and westerns ruled the airwaves. As Disney ran into its first serious theme park competition, the business bifurcated. Disney got the preteen girls and Universal got the boys and teenage guys. Like it or not, that's been the Disney brand for a long while (after Eisner almost killed the brand with Eddie Murphy/Bette Midler movies and raucous nightclubs on property in PI, Bob Iger dialed it back to the core values when he took over. Remember, Bob's an ABC alum also.) Have they gone too far? Probably, which is why buying LucasFilm and Marvel was a master stroke. It will take a while, though.

Meanwhile, there's a very thin line between embracing your inner geek and admitting it today. You can get away with Harry Potter and Star Wars fandom, but coming right out and embracing pure science or culture/geography is a very narrow universe of kids. The ones there are can now visit much more sophisticated science centers and childrens' museums around the country than we had during Walt's time. 

The "characterization" of Epcot isn't new. Mickey and friends were banned from the park on opening day in 1982. That edict got rolled back shortly thereafter by popular demand. 

No matter how much nerds like me wish it weren't so, it's not coming back (and I'm one of those oddballs who ALWAYS goes to Hall of Presidents at MK and AA in World Showcase, so I feel the pain.)

 

Edited August 8, 2017 by spenser1058

[jrs2]

^^

Spenser1058, you really need to do a podcast or something like that; YouTube perhaps where you're getting paid to blog.  your analysis and commentary is truly a great thing.  No BS, I mean it.  I may not agree with everything, but, who cares, because it's undeniably insightful stuff.  I applaud you yet again.  I mean it.

[spenser1058]

3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

^^

Spenser1058, you really need to do a podcast or something like that; YouTube perhaps where you're getting paid to blog.  your analysis and commentary is truly a great thing.  No BS, I mean it.  I may not agree with everything, but, who cares, because it's undeniably insightful stuff.  I applaud you yet again.  I mean it.

Thank you so much, jrs2, for the very kind words. In any fast growing place like ours, there's room for the Robert Moses developers AND the Jane Jacobs preservationists. Indeed, you have to have both so that we don't end up like the Rust Belt barely able to keep our kids close to home for lack of jobs but at the same time don't "pave paradise to put up a parking lot."

In 1980,we had just become the 50th largest MSA. By 2020, we're probably going to be #20 or so. That's a huge amount of growth in 40 years. Will it still be a place we'll be proud to call home? To paraphrase Ben Franklin, it will be, "if you can keep it."

Edited August 9, 2017 by spenser1058

[John Hargrove]

17 hours ago, jrs2 said:

^^

Spenser1058, you really need to do a podcast or something like that; YouTube perhaps where you're getting paid to blog.  your analysis and commentary is truly a great thing.  No BS, I mean it.  I may not agree with everything, but, who cares, because it's undeniably insightful stuff.  I applaud you yet again.  I mean it.

Eventually I'm just going to copy and paste his post history into a book and send it to him for approval 

 

[jrs2]

Where do we put I-4 et al updates?

Anyway, the Grand National overpass:  I drove it an hour ago! How awesome!  It made a previously dead part of the backside of Major Blvd, and the corner at Grand National & Oakridge, relevant- by light years.

The Lexus dealership looks awesome as you head north on Major Blvd from Universal.

So, those uncivilized hanging from dental floss traffic signals are also being replaced at Kirkman & Major.  It's about time too.

Fantastic.

[spenser1058]

Now if they'll just finish the I-4 E onramp there at Kirkman. Everyday has become an adventure in H**l there. I'm not sure who is worse- the clueless tourists trying desperately to find the Turnpike (or worse, the Millenia exit) or the Martin engineers in their Acuras trying to speed ahead in the merge lane and causing a massive bottleneck when they run out of room *sigh*.