Orlando Attractions Area News & Developments

[jrs2]

On 1/22/2018 at 2:44 PM, alex said:

In our case we have a big local population and an enormous tourist population—and the tourist development tax. It may have been discussed before, but the first paragraph in a 2016 article always comes to mind:

Even a year's worth of TDT money ($226 million in 2015 alone) would be a huge start to getting something off the ground that benefits tourists and locals.

Well, you need to support the lodging industry whose taxes make up the TDT, and to do so requires reinvestment in the OCCC and marketing.  The lodging industry doesn't cater to locals.  So why would they support their tax money going to a transit system benefiting locals?  We're lucky we got money for DPAC.  It just is what it is.

[jrs2]

19 hours ago, W7edwin said:

yeah the Ron John wavepark was never materialized.. i remember looking at a architectural model with little people riding the waves lol, that they used to have back in 2006 on the entrance of the store

also does anyone knows why Vans skate park closed? that brought a lot of traffic to "Festival Bay" back then

That place was awesome. I'm sure all of those businesses had lease issues with the original Festival Bay group, and not enough patronage bc of poor mall marketing.  They brought in at least 3 major factory outlet stores and 1 mall store at one point but those stores didn't survive let alone bring in patrons that would shop elsewhere at the mall.  That mall was doomed at the onset.  Their website prior to construction had dozens of chains listed as future tenants, like a regular mall.  Then one day that graphic was deleted.  Then they started construction.  Not sure what that was all about.  I knew they would struggle after that, especially when they marketed it as catering to having specialty shops.  This was before the more recent ownership.  Just...bad...

[alex]

16 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Well, you need to support the lodging industry whose taxes make up the TDT, and to do so requires reinvestment in the OCCC and marketing. ... 

But it's tourists who are paying those taxes directly, not the hotels (see the Orange County Comptroller's TDT FAQ). Tourists are paying a 6% hotel tax on top of the 7% sales tax (while the hotel charges for the room, a mysterious "resort fee," often an "on-site parking fee," and a million other tiny fees). Meanwhile, most tourists couldn't care less about the OCCC and we've seen enough reports now about the ridiculously large Visit Florida / Visit Orlando budgets. I'm not saying the OCCC and marketing aren't important, but to get 90% of a fairly sizable tax seems skewed. I think it's time we formally change the statutes to reflect that.

36 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

... The lodging industry doesn't cater to locals. ...

Of course the lodging industry caters to locals. You've never done a "staycation" in Orlando, had a drink at a hotel bar, eaten at a hotel restaurant, gone to a conference, or rented an event space at a local hotel?

48 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

...  So why would they support their tax money going to a transit system benefiting locals?  We're lucky we got money for DPAC.  It just is what it is.

That would be like saying our roads only benefit locals—tourists are driving on them just like locals, and tourists would use public transit just like locals.

In terms of the DPAC, the statute says TDT can be used for "convention centers, sports stadiums and arenas, auditoriums and museums, promotion and/or advertisement of tourism." If we're supposed to feel lucky that we got money for the DPAC, then that points to some strong bias in how the TDT is used because a venue like the DPAC clearly fits into the intended recipients. Further, the TDT is paid for any hotel stay, whether it's on I-Drive or in downtown Orlando or in Winter Park, so why is only the tourist corridor benefitting?

And, while I'm already ranting and raving: I run an AirBnB close to downtown. My guests pay the same 7% sales tax and 6% TDT. In fact, Florida made $20 million in taxes off AirBnB stays last year. Most of my guests are here for family visits, weddings, college visits, or internships. The profile of our visitors is changing and diversifying, and while I'm not against the TDT, I think its use needs to adapt to the times.

 

[JFW657]

55 minutes ago, alex said:

1.) But it's tourists who are paying those taxes directly, not the hotels (see the Orange County Comptroller's TDT FAQ). Tourists are paying a 6% hotel tax on top of the 7% sales tax (while the hotel charges for the room, a mysterious "resort fee," often an "on-site parking fee," and a million other tiny fees). Meanwhile, most tourists couldn't care less about the OCCC and we've seen enough reports now about the ridiculously large Visit Florida / Visit Orlando budgets. I'm not saying the OCCC and marketing aren't important, but to get 90% of a fairly sizable tax seems skewed. I think it's time we formally change the statutes to reflect that.

2.) Of course the lodging industry caters to locals. You've never done a "staycation" in Orlando, had a drink at a hotel bar, eaten at a hotel restaurant, gone to a conference, or rented an event space at a local hotel?

That would be like saying our roads only benefit locals—tourists are driving on them just like locals, and tourists would use public transit just like locals.

In terms of the DPAC, the statute says TDT can be used for "convention centers, sports stadiums and arenas, auditoriums and museums, promotion and/or advertisement of tourism." 3.) If we're supposed to feel lucky that we got money for the DPAC, then that points to some strong bias in how the TDT is used because a venue like the DPAC clearly fits into the intended recipients. Further, the TDT is paid for any hotel stay, whether it's on I-Drive or in downtown Orlando or in Winter Park, so why is only the tourist corridor benefitting?

And, while I'm already ranting and raving: I run an AirBnB close to downtown. My guests pay the same 7% sales tax and 6% TDT. In fact, Florida made $20 million in taxes off AirBnB stays last year. Most of my guests are here for family visits, weddings, college visits, or internships. The profile of our visitors is changing and diversifying, and while I'm not against the TDT, I think its use needs to adapt to the times.

As to some of your individual points:

1.) That doesn't matter to the hotel owners. As far as they're concerned, the majority of those TDT dollars should be spent promoting tourism to keep their hotels full, and they are the ones who pressure and influence County Commissioners.

2.) Comparatively  speaking, I think the percentage of locals who the lodging industry caters to is pretty miniscule. Sure some locals use the services they offer, but it's probably a drop in the bucket. For all intents and purposes, the lodging industry caters mainly to tourists. Tourists are their main customers and their primary reason for being in business.

3.) I don't think it's a question of being lucky that DPAC got some of the TDT money, I think the luck is in how much money it got. We're not talking about 40 or 50 million dollars here. I think the final price tag for DPAC will be somewhere over $400 million, with the TDT contribution being somewhere around $130 million. I also think I recall hearing that a few I-Drive hotel owners were not particularly supportive of that.

[spenser1058]

As Mel Martinez once pointed out, Sears and Walmart don't control sales tax and neither should the hospitality industry control the TDT. They have plenty of influence through our elected officials as it is.

[spenser1058]

Updates on Aventura and Margaritaville from the Sentinel:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/travel/attractions/theme-park-rangers-blog/os-cfb-forecast-orlando-hotels-20180124-story.html

[spenser1058]

Catching up with Epcot changes (including a new Japanese restaurant possibility) from Orlando Weekly:

https://m.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2018/01/29/disney-might-be-secretly-adding-a-new-restaurant-to-one-of-epcots-most-popular-pavilions

With billions of dollars being invested across property, not only in the parks but also the resorts and even in general infrastructure, it boggles the mind to imagine what WDW will look like by the time the 50th anniversary hoopla begins in 2021 (or even 2020 if they decide to go with the fiscal year starting in October.)

[jrs2]

Interesting dynamic at Disney right now.  when you are driving east from World Drive towards Disney Springs, as you pass the entrance to Hollywood Studios, in your rear view mirror, you see the two cranes for the Coronado Springs tower, while in front of you, you see the two cranes for the Caribbean Beach Resort tower.

[shardoon]

Business journal has some article about unicorp doing another huge project near disney at $ 1 billion. Ofcourse its behind their paywall. Anybody have incite on this? 

[codypet]

I pulled up a cached version of the site.   Sounds like the property that bridges the link between old Fenton (@Apopka Vineland) and new Fenton (Daryl Carter Pkwy) near Palm Parkway.

"No tenants have been signed yet, and the development team is still being formed. But already, Whittall said he wants it to be a destination.

“I want to brand that area,” Whittall told Orlando Business Journal. “O-Town will be known as a place to go visit.”

The 85-acre site being eyed by Unicorp is owned and being marketed by Daryl Carter of Maury L. Carter & Associates Inc. Unicorp has it under contract and expects to close on the sale by year’s end, which would set O-Town up to begin construction in first-quarter 2019 and be completed around mid-2020. Carter was not available for comment by press time."

They go on to mention that they want to build the center in anticipation for I-4 beyond the ultimate because the Crossroads are getting wacked and they want to steal some of those tennants because there will be an exits off of DCP.  Based off of Unicorps past developments in Dr. Phillips I can see a lot of howling and complaining from that crowd off of Darlene and APV.

Edited February 1, 2018 by codypet

[shardoon]

I tried it multiple times to get into it via google, and I finally was successful. Most interesting part out of it was a leak about another property, Vineland Pointe. It looks like 4rivers is finally coming to SW Orange County. Of note, after viewing the pictures of the Village at O-Town project...... it looks like he is trying to do what he originally envisioned at I-Drive 360 here from back in the day prior to the recession. It looks so similar to the point that I am expecting an announcement about the Bellagio Fountains soon. 

 

Chuck Whittall is gearing up for another development in Orlando’s tourist area — and it’s a doozy.

The president of Orlando-based Unicorp National Developments Inc. exclusively shared plans for a more than $1 billion mixed-use water-front mega project, dubbed O-Town, at Palm and Daryl Carter parkways near Walt Disney World.

No tenants have been signed yet, and the development team is still being formed. But already, Whittall said he wants it to be a destination.

“I want to brand that area,” Whittall told Orlando Business Journal. “O-Town will be known as a place to go visit.”

The 85-acre site being eyed by Unicorp is owned and being marketed by Daryl Carter of Maury L. Carter & Associates Inc. Unicorp has it under contract and expects to close on the sale by year’s end, which would set O-Town up to begin construction in first-quarter 2019 and be completed around mid-2020. Carter was not available for comment by press time.

---

See the photo gallery above for a look at key Unicorp projects in Central Florida.

---

However, Whittall envisions O-Town including a 100,000-square-foot grocery-anchored retail center, 1,500 upscale apartment units in multiple towers and 150 homes together in an area called Village at O-Town. 

Along with that will be an area called The Boardwalk at O-Town West, a tourist-centric complex with a mix of restaurants, shops and a 600-space parking garage.

In fact, Unicorp is considering buying another 5 adjacent acres to expand the project, Whittall said.

The Village at O-Town will surround a man-made recreational lake with a beach-like shore amenity similar to ones made popular by Miami-based Crystal Lagoons US Corp. Single-family homes are expected to be priced from $500,000. 

Resort-style community amenities will include a clubhouse, recreation center, jogging paths with exercise stations and a dog park, Whittall said.

The development team so far includes project engineer Kimley-Horn & Associates Inc.; and Miami-based Zyscovich Architects and Altamonte Springs-based general contractor Roger B. Kennedy Inc. are working on the apartments.

The remaining team members have not yet been selected.

The project would be huge for the area, as new shopping centers create jobs and provide residents, businesses and tourists more amenities. Plus, luxury apartments and homes are in demand to provide housing to retain and attract top talent to the area.

Whittall is going all in on O-Town, in part, because that area may soon need retail offerings. That’s because sections of nearby retail centers may be affected by the ongoing $2.3 billion I-4 Ultimate revamp of Interstate 4, Whittall said.

One center in particular that’s expected to be impacted is the Crossroads at Lake Buena Vista, across the street from Walt Disney World’s eastern entrance, on South Apopka Vineland Road and Hotel Plaza Boulevard, Whittall said.

“Those people will need new places to go.”

Representatives from the Crossroads at Lake Buena Vista — which features a Gooding’s supermarket, Red Lobster, Uno Pizzeria & Grill, TGI Fridays and other restaurants — were unavailable for comment.

Meanwhile, rather than general retail, O-Town most likely will target specialty retail shops commonly found in tourist areas, like Unicorp’s I-Drive 360 tenants Tervis and Flip Flop Shops, according to Unicorp Director of Development and Leasing Alexie Fonseca.

“We would like to have a mixture of national restaurant brands, but we’d also like some concepts locals aren’t familiar with,” Fonseca told OBJ. “For example, we are looking for brands that have only 20 locations across the entire U.S. — not those with 20 locations in a single state.”

And southwest Orange County — the area around Disney — still is ripe for growth, said Cindy Schooler, senior vice president and market leader of Orlando retail real estate brokerage SRS Real Estate Partners, who isn’t involved in the project.

In fact, many are watching the $130 million, 400,000-square-foot Vineland Pointe shopping center being developed by O’Connor Capital Partners on 64 acres near Disney and Orlando Vineland Premium Outlets.

“Vineland Pointe is probably the most active conversation on that corridor right now. The retailers for that project are aligning correctly, and as more commit, it begets even more,” said Schooler, who represents tenants such as 4Rivers Smokehouse, PDQ, WingHouse and Dunkin’ Donuts.

Vineland Pointe is expected to open by this year’s third quarter less than 2,000 feet away from Unicorp’s future site, so the two projects should be able to co-exist.

“Unicorp’s project will be much more experiential and sophisticated,” Schooler added. “If you want big-box retail, you go east [to Vineland Pointe], but if you are looking for more experiential, go west [to O-Town].”

Meanwhile, Whittall is optimistic that he has another hit project on his hands, one that someday may be on par with other area destinations like Winter Park or The Mall at Millenia area. 

Unicorp already played a big role in identifying South I-Drive’s entertainment district with its I-Drive 360 project, and Whittall said his goal is to build on that.

Edited February 1, 2018 by shardoon

[AndyPok1]

Only tangentially related, but I wish we could get some sort of petition to get that street renamed to Fenton (or something else) before the I-4 exit gets installed.  It being named Daryl Carter Pkwy is the most ridiculous ever and has annoyed me for a while.  I wouldn't even mind if it was Carter Pkwy or Daryl Pkwy, but the full name is just unseemly to me for a largely non-notable figure.

[shardoon]

11 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

Only tangentially related, but I wish we could get some sort of petition to get that street renamed to Fenton (or something else) before the I-4 exit gets installed.  It being named Daryl Carter Pkwy is the most ridiculous ever and has annoyed me for a while.  I wouldn't even mind if it was Carter Pkwy or Daryl Pkwy, but the full name is just unseemly to me for a largely non-notable figure.

Well, he owned the land and had to pay a pretty penny toward part of the costs of the bridge......... and of course ego played into it........technically I am unsure if the eventual extension to Apopka Vineland is going to follow the exact path of Fenton St. If thats the case, Fenton St may just be left to the road on the West side of Apopka Vineland in between the power substation and the JCC. 

[AndyPok1]

Cursory googling says they contributed 1 mil, and the bridge and eventual interchange is going to bring them so much money from the rest of their holdings, that's the cheapest expense ever.  Again, if they want to name it Carter Pkwy or Daryl Pkwy or Maury Pkwy, I'd have no qualms.  Just first and last named streets should be reserved for exceptionally notable people or inside of gated areas.  Dude is a real estate investor.  Beyond being on an advisory board for UF Real Estate studies, he's non-notable.

Off the top of head, what are the other full name major streets we have?  Barack Obama, John Young...

[codypet]

It pisses me off too.  I grew up in the neighborhood and knew the road back then it was the Sea World Rest area.   When they built the bridge they even had installed Fenton signage.  They actually had to go back and change the name to Daryl Carter.  That's a few thousand just for signs.  Richard Crotty is about to get himself a road pretty soon.  Hell the presidents downtown and Dr. Phillips only have a last name.  Even other property owners only have a last name ex. Dowden Rd.

Edited February 1, 2018 by codypet

[shardoon]

20 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

Cursory googling says they contributed 1 mil, and the bridge and eventual interchange is going to bring them so much money from the rest of their holdings, that's the cheapest expense ever.  Again, if they want to name it Carter Pkwy or Daryl Pkwy or Maury Pkwy, I'd have no qualms.  Just first and last named streets should be reserved for exceptionally notable people or inside of gated areas.  Dude is a real estate investor.  Beyond being on an advisory board for UF Real Estate studies, he's non-notable.

Off the top of head, what are the other full name major streets we have?  Barack Obama, John Young...

I am sure there were plenty of political donations that were made to change this. In fact, if memory serves me correctly, when the bridge initially opened, it was labeled as Fenton Street. A few months later, they changed the signs. 

 

And there you have it LOL. He always had a thing for those Bellagio Fountains and I knew it was only a matter of time until he mentions it in a press release....... I guess 3 hours later........

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/classified/realestate/os-water-park-unicorp-20180201-story.html

Edited February 1, 2018 by shardoon

[jrs2]

^^

so that Unicorp development to the north of Ruby Lake...that has the potential to be huge.  They'll get tenants.  The closing of Crossroads and realignment of 535 to Hotel Drive will be a nightmare for years.  Unicorp has a lot of projects going up right now.  The "Midtown" project where the two Hilton Vacation Club or whatever their newer name is towers are at, never materialized.  They are also construction homes to the south of there and to the north of Lake St.  There's also a couple of hotels u/c to the north of Lake St. to the east of Palm Parkway.  That entire stretch is probably gonna get developed all the way to CFLA Pkwy.  

^^

As for "Fenton" becoming "Daryl Carter", it threw me off when I first saw the name change.  But, so what?  The St. Pete Times Arena is now called the Amalie Arena.  Who the hec is that?  It's someone with money.  I had no idea they changed the name and couldn't figure out where concerts and other events were located until I googled it.   Florida Field in Gainesville became Ben Hill Griffin Stadium in like 1988.  The multiple word street names doesn't phase me.  But at the end of the day, if you didn't know who Daryl Carter was before this name change, you will now.  As a land owner, him slapping his name on that street is no different than the Dr. Phillips scenario, but for the multiple word name.  Carter is a common name; Linda, Jimmy, Vince, etc., are all Carters; gotta distinguish it.

[codypet]

I guess I didn't know we could just buy the naming rights to streets now.  I'll reach out to OC on the price to rename Colonial Dr.

I talked to an OC engineer today about flooding concerns at Big Sand Lake and this development.  Apparently I-4 ultimate will be lowering the peak stage by 2' with a new crossing under the highway.  I guess that will help prevent more flooding in the area.

[shardoon]

18 minutes ago, codypet said:

I guess I didn't know we could just buy the naming rights to streets now.  I'll reach out to OC on the price to rename Colonial Dr.

I talked to an OC engineer today about flooding concerns at Big Sand Lake and this development.  Apparently I-4 ultimate will be lowering the peak stage by 2' with a new crossing under the highway.  I guess that will help prevent more flooding in the area.

Wouldn't that be "Beyond the Ultimate", which is at least 3-6 years down for the first dirt to be moved? 

[codypet]

My understanding is the stretch between Universal Blvd and SR 528 is being fastracked.

[dcluley98]

Hands down worst name ever is the Spessard L. Holland East–West Expressway.  Luckily, they gave it a number too, so we can all just call it "the 408."

Amalie Arena is actually named after the title sponsor, Amalie Oil Company. They are not all that well known and it sounds like a name, so it confuses a lot of people. (still better than Camping World, LOL)

 

[AndyPok1]

53 minutes ago, codypet said:

My understanding is the stretch between Universal Blvd and SR 528 is being fastracked.

It is.  Segment 2 of I4Express/BTU construction is slated to start in the second half 2019 because of how bad the Kirkman <--> 528 stretch has gotten.

http://www.i4express.com/Docs/I4_Beyond_The_Ultimate_Funding_Map_11292016.pdf

[spenser1058]

56 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

Hands down worst name ever is the Spessard L. Holland East–West Expressway.  Luckily, they gave it a number too, so we can all just call it "the 408."

Amalie Arena is actually named after the title sponsor, Amalie Oil Company. They are not all that well known and it sounds like a name, so it confuses a lot of people. (still better than Camping World, LOL)

 

Spessard Holland was a former governor and US senator (and close friends with JFK, unlike Dan Quayle.) While a bit of a rogue, he also worked for civil rights (for example, attempting to pass legislation prohibiting poll taxes in the country.) I think that name is a keeper (although I suspect few people actually know the full name.)

[jgardnerucf]

6 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

Off the top of head, what are the other full name major streets we have?  Barack Obama, John Young...

The Bob Snow sign got crumped and thrown in a dumpster weeks ago. Or did someone retrieve it after a magic loss walking home... hummm...

[JFW657]

4 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Hands down worst name ever is the Spessard L. Holland East–West Expressway.  Luckily, they gave it a number too, so we can all just call it "the 408."

Amalie Arena is actually named after the title sponsor, Amalie Oil Company. They are not all that well known and it sounds like a name, so it confuses a lot of people. (still better than Camping World, LOL)

I'm not sure if they've changed it by now or not, but up until a relatively few years ago, W. Hwy 50 in Ocoee was named "W.B. ''Bill'' McGee Highway".