Orlando Attractions Area News & Developments

[codypet]

I wonder what condition Dowdy Pavilion is in now.   Given its state the final years of operation, its probably pretty sad walking in there now.

[spenser1058]

2 minutes ago, codypet said:

I wonder what condition Dowdy Pavilion is in now.   Given its state the final years of operation, its probably pretty sad walking in there now.

Is it… dowdy?

[jliv]

https://www.visitorlando.com/media/press-releases/post/new-orlandos-global-brand-unveil-unbelievably-real-orlando/

A new brand tagline concocted by Razorfish for Orlando: "Unbelievably Real".  Don't know if it resonates with me personally, but the marketing and brand experts know more than me.  I do think the co-branding arrangement between Visit Orlando and Orlando Economic Partnership is a smart move; it gives the local economic development efforts access to the massive, TDT-funded marketing budget of Visit Orlando to bolster their own efforts.   Brand is everything.

[HankStrong]

9 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Is it… dowdy?

Is that like my dad's favorite childhood show Howdy Dowdy?

[spenser1058]

51 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

Is that like my dad's favorite childhood show Howdy Dowdy?

With Bob Keeshan (later Captain Kangaroo) as Clarabelle Cow!

[codypet]

11 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Is it… dowdy?

I saw that coming.

Looking for pictures of the inside, I found this.  Which I wish I had known was for sale, because this is amazing.

Also how 90's are these photos from inside the alley?

https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/dowdy-pavilion-world-bowling-center-on

[jrs2]

https://conventionsouth.com/158m-expansion-adds-100000-square-feet-of-meeting-space-to-gaylord-palms/#:~:text=The %24158-million project%2C which,space and 1%2C718 guest rooms.

Gaylord Palms' expansion opened up last summer.  now they've got 1,700+ rms and 500k convention space.

[bqknight]

On 5/10/2022 at 7:04 AM, jliv said:

https://www.visitorlando.com/media/press-releases/post/new-orlandos-global-brand-unveil-unbelievably-real-orlando/

A new brand tagline concocted by Razorfish for Orlando: "Unbelievably Real".  Don't know if it resonates with me personally, but the marketing and brand experts know more than me.  I do think the co-branding arrangement between Visit Orlando and Orlando Economic Partnership is a smart move; it gives the local economic development efforts access to the massive, TDT-funded marketing budget of Visit Orlando to bolster their own efforts.   Brand is everything.

In the advertising/marketing field (granted, not in creative) and I'm not sure how I feel about it. I get what they're going for, but I'm not sure it will click for people who don't live in Orlando. Kinda wish they went with an agency that was based in Orlando.

[spenser1058]

59 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

https://conventionsouth.com/158m-expansion-adds-100000-square-feet-of-meeting-space-to-gaylord-palms/#:~:text=The %24158-million project%2C which,space and 1%2C718 guest rooms.

Gaylord Palms' expansion opened up last summer.  now they've got 1,700+ rms and 500k convention space.

Now all they need is an Opryland theme park…

[spenser1058]

Free BEER returns to Busch Gardens Tampa Bay this summer from May 31 -August 7. No word on whether Sea World will follow suit:

https://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/202205/8954/
 

[codypet]

Fires up my annual pass

[dcluley98]

Went to "Hallow-Scream" once at Busch Gardens with re-fillable 32 ounce souvenir beers and it was awesome. Hahaha. 

Edited May 19, 2022 by dcluley98

[FLClarkKent]

Disney opening a retail/ticket store in the Hollywood Plaza garage on I-Drive near Sand Lake Road. Also wrapping the garage with a two-story video screen.

 

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/travel/attractions/the-daily-disney/os-et-disney-video-screen-international-drive-interstate-4-billboard-sand-lake-20220520-ewmq3dvtongy5ih4mapjvhkhze-story.html

[jrs2]

20 minutes ago, FLClarkKent said:

Disney opening a retail/ticket store in the Hollywood Plaza garage on I-Drive near Sand Lake Road. Also wrapping the garage with a two-story video screen.

 

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/travel/attractions/the-daily-disney/os-et-disney-video-screen-international-drive-interstate-4-billboard-sand-lake-20220520-ewmq3dvtongy5ih4mapjvhkhze-story.html

that might be the storefront area they currently have covered up just to the right of the burger place.  This is great for them. they'll pay rent for the sign and the retail space and the location has really good visibility.  They tried for a replacement to Circo (sp) but I never heard anything again about that.

Well, look what I just found:

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/03/10/toms-watch-bar-announced-for-hollywood-plaza.html

they signed a sports bar chain for the top floor.  should be a success

[jrs2]

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orange-county/os-ne-orange-tdt-october-20211203-cbhu3kj3kzfavkso3gyhvafdgi-story.html

So, the latest on this was from December when they put the brakes on this expansion.  Yeah, I know a lot of people here could care less about this project.

If you look at GWCC, they did a lobby mezzanine addition to the west of their expo space much like what OCCC is looking to do here on the N/S Bldg.  McCormick Place did an entire new wing a few years ago to solidify their place as the largest center bar none (typical Chicago).

So, Orange Co. needs to do this expansion to stay competitive.  

But short of this expansion, here's what's going on that will benefit the center as well:

1.  Sunrail & BL & Orange Co & Universal are looking to "partner up" on that leg realignment to get a station near the OCCC. Direct access to Orlando, OIA, and Miami.

2.  Universal's Epic Universe. (already u/c)

3.  Kirkman Road extension (already u/c); will align I believe with Tradeshow Rd. and give more better access to the complex.

Both of these projects directly benefit the OCCC.  So, I don't see a problem here at all.  Because at the end of the day, no other place anywhere (except maybe the Anaheim CC ) will have the integration and/or proximity to a theme park catering to after hour events for large conventions.  I've been to the CC in Vancouver- very nice, and they had an after party at the Aquarium; been to the SF CC and they used the City Hall Building and place at the docks which was stunning; been to LA and they have LA Live right there.  Been to many others.  SD is on the water.

But as it stands now, OCCC has Pointe Orlando at its doorstep (West Bldg) with a short walk to Top Golf/Andretti (N/S Bldg) and a Trolley ride to Icon Park.  Add to that skywalks to Hilton Orlando, Hyatt Regency, Rosen Centre and Rosen Plaza and their individual offerings (and a quick Uber ride to Shingle Creek Resort).  It is very integrated.  McCormick Place is integrated as well, but they had to build new hotels adjacent to it (and that arena) b/c it was for the most part on an island; it ain't on MI Ave; OCCC is already on I-Drive.  And GWCC is in the Hood.  At least the New Orleans CC is near the riverside offerings and Harrah's, en route to French Quarter.

I know Universal foresees more hotels near Epic U.  But OCCC needs more hotel towers next to the OCCC within "walking distance" to stay competitive.   They also need that western facade mezzanine area to connect the N to the S at the N/S Bldg, b/c what's there now to connect the two from the outside just don't cut it.  They screwed the pooch with that design- trying to mimic the OIA landside terminal with A & B (N & S).  One way to fix it would be to build a central interior elevated walkway between the two halves.  They have something similar in the West Bldg that connects the newer western entrance to the I-Drive side.

They almost developed the land north of Peabody with a "Carlsen Hotel" property which was to be 2k rms but 911 happened.  Back then, there was no Hilton Orlando with convention space or N/S Bldg or Peabody Tower 2 with expanded convention space in that submarket.

Also, Village of Imagine never happened- all that was built was that smaller Westin which changed flags.  Near there and TopGolf there was supposed to be that other hotel property (NY developers), but, then covid derailed those plans (for sure unless derailed prior).

In conclusion, what we know for sure that is coming is huge for the OCCC, and what may come is icing on the cake, but I think that mezzanine expansion with ballroom (think Bon Scott) is essential.

[spenser1058]

I take it you want our finances to be as messed up as Chicago’s, right? Only a city in that kind of mess would be in that kind of arms race when in fact the largest convention centers have ridiculously low occupancy much of the year.

The truth is that the largest conventions only have a few venues they can use and Orlando is going to get its share regardless. No one wants to go to Chicago about seven months of the year.

If you look at the best run cities in the country, you’d notice they quit playing this game ages ago.

OC has much bigger priorities they need to address before expanding the white elephant. 

[jrs2]

3 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

I take it you want our finances to be as messed up as Chicago’s, right? Only a city in that kind of mess would be in that kind of arms race when in fact the largest convention centers have ridiculously low occupancy much of the year.

The truth is that the largest conventions only have a few venues they can use and Orlando is going to get its share regardless. No one wants to go to Chicago about seven months of the year.

If you look at the best run cities in the country, you’d notice they quit playing this game ages ago.

OC has much bigger priorities they need to address before expanding the white elephant. 

You're talking about money, business, and tourism.  Business travelers travel to Chicago whether they like it or not when it's 10 below because that city has the money, the companies, and the business clout;  Chicago may not be considered a "best run city" by you, but it is a rail center, a transportation center, an arts center, a business center, a cultural center, an architectural design and engineering center, and a model for urban design.   If Orlando was 5% Chicago I would be happy.  In fact, I don't even know how Orlando has gotten as far as it has up until now. 

I said a long time ago there were certain pivotal projects that were the types of projects that typically require an massive historic business presence base to evolve out of, that Orlando either recently got or was in the running to get.  One of those was Obama HSR which got shot down.  The other was LRT which the Hood administration (or whomever) shot down.  However, Disney's tourism brought with it massive world record setting tourism that begat OIA in it's current iteration, five star retail, five star lodging, five star events, a very large airport, an extensive tollway system, a very large convention center. a fast growing population base, and a second major theme park/entertainment presence, a top notch performing arts center, a top notch arena, a nice MLS stadium, CRT, and now HSR via BL to Miami.

So by January 2023, you will have a city with HSR connecting it to Miami.  This is Florida, not Paris nor Amsterdam.  Talk about coming out of the stone ages and socking it to a place like Chicago.  They don't have that.  They've got The El and METRA but that's it (well, they've got a ton of METRA lines to be fair (and...Union Station)).  But for Orlando to have 60+ miles of CRT and a soon to be HSR line cutting through a swamp is unheard of.  And then our CRT is gonna get more money, and the HSR is going to connect to Tampa with Orlando in the middle.  How the hec did that happen?   In 1990, I would have predicted an HSR shadowing I-75 to Ft. Meyers up to Tampa with Orlando getting left out of the mix.  Now, it's Tampa getting left out if that line ends at OIA (or even Disney).   

Gotta think big.  Orlando/Orange County thus far has been thinking big- to a point.  So, I'm hoping Buddy, Val & Co. get the $$$ for the Sunrail extension/BL re-routing to the OCCC ,b/c in the same vein as the $.01 sales tax is important to maintain Sunrail, the Sunrail link to OIA and then to OCCC is just as important to the OCCC which is important to Orange Co so that the center continues to be marketable and cutting edge.  

In a nutshell, Orlando has positioned itself nicely ala the BL deal.  And, the CSX deal that paved the way for Sunrail was key for CRT and freight, and now, b/c of BL's presence in Orlando, the creation of a new rail line for Sunrail on new rail easement is a probability when before, it was not.  So, thank FEC and CSX for that and the players involved with both deals. 

If it wasn't for the OCCC, there would be no Peabody Hotel and all the other massive hotels that followed (including Shingle Creek).  Orlando would not be known as a major convention city.  There would be no Grande Lakes Resort, nor the convention hotels at Bonnet Creek; no five star brands; no Four Seasons Resort.  Because of all this, you have a lot of money being spent in Orlando.  You have McLaren opening up a dealership.  You already have RR, Bentley, Ferrari, etc.  These are here, and you don't have to go to Tampa.  Did you know that our Neiman Marcus is now what they consider a "tier 1" store in the chain?  

So, every one of these "things" is a piece of a puzzle and each piece needs to be working, like in a car engine.  And you have to change with the times to stay competitive.

So it goes without saying I disagree with everything you said. The county is still spending money on infrastructure regardless, but the OCCC is an economic driver that puts hotel rooms on vacant land, butts in those rooms that spend money on twizzlers and gas, and the clerks that sell those twizzlers and gas have a job and feed their kids.  Hyatt/Peabody did it's part by expanding; Hilton did it's part by building; Rosen has done his part, the bar and restaurant owners have done their part.  The County needs to do it's part to keep it going. 

It's actually a better investment than HSR was in CA hands down...$105B (2019 est.) and climbing... connecting SF to LA (sorry, I meant Bakersfield to Merced). 

And the OCCC is the white elephant? 

[jliv]

14 hours ago, jrs2 said:

 

So it goes without saying I disagree with everything you said. The county is still spending money on infrastructure regardless, but the OCCC is an economic driver that puts hotel rooms on vacant land, butts in those rooms that spend money on twizzlers and gas, and the clerks that sell those twizzlers and gas have a job and feed their kids.  Hyatt/Peabody did it's part by expanding; Hilton did it's part by building; Rosen has done his part, the bar and restaurant owners have done their part.  The County needs to do it's part to keep it going It's actually a better investment than HSR was in CA hands down...$105B (2019 est.) and climbing... connecting SF to LA (sorry, I meant Bakersfield to Merced). 

And the OCCC is the white elephant? 

How much you wanna bet the OCCC expansion proposal will be re-submitted in a year or two with a new ballpark for the Rays attached?  Just sayin...

Edited May 26, 2022 by jliv

[spenser1058]

15 hours ago, jrs2 said:

You're talking about money, business, and tourism.  Business travelers travel to Chicago whether they like it or not when it's 10 below because that city has the money, the companies, and the business clout;  Chicago may not be considered a "best run city" by you, but it is a rail center, a transportation center, an arts center, a business center, a cultural center, an architectural design and engineering center, and a model for urban design.   If Orlando was 5% Chicago I would be happy.  In fact, I don't even know how Orlando has gotten as far as it has up until now. 

I said a long time ago there were certain pivotal projects that were the types of projects that typically require an massive historic business presence base to evolve out of, that Orlando either recently got or was in the running to get.  One of those was Obama HSR which got shot down.  The other was LRT which the Hood administration (or whomever) shot down.  However, Disney's tourism brought with it massive world record setting tourism that begat OIA in it's current iteration, five star retail, five star lodging, five star events, a very large airport, an extensive tollway system, a very large convention center. a fast growing population base, and a second major theme park/entertainment presence, a top notch performing arts center, a top notch arena, a nice MLS stadium, CRT, and now HSR via BL to Miami.

So by January 2023, you will have a city with HSR connecting it to Miami.  This is Florida, not Paris nor Amsterdam.  Talk about coming out of the stone ages and socking it to a place like Chicago.  They don't have that.  They've got The El and METRA but that's it (well, they've got a ton of METRA lines to be fair (and...Union Station)).  But for Orlando to have 60+ miles of CRT and a soon to be HSR line cutting through a swamp is unheard of.  And then our CRT is gonna get more money, and the HSR is going to connect to Tampa with Orlando in the middle.  How the hec did that happen?   In 1990, I would have predicted an HSR shadowing I-75 to Ft. Meyers up to Tampa with Orlando getting left out of the mix.  Now, it's Tampa getting left out if that line ends at OIA (or even Disney).   

Gotta think big.  Orlando/Orange County thus far has been thinking big- to a point.  So, I'm hoping Buddy, Val & Co. get the $$$ for the Sunrail extension/BL re-routing to the OCCC ,b/c in the same vein as the $.01 sales tax is important to maintain Sunrail, the Sunrail link to OIA and then to OCCC is just as important to the OCCC which is important to Orange Co so that the center continues to be marketable and cutting edge.  

In a nutshell, Orlando has positioned itself nicely ala the BL deal.  And, the CSX deal that paved the way for Sunrail was key for CRT and freight, and now, b/c of BL's presence in Orlando, the creation of a new rail line for Sunrail on new rail easement is a probability when before, it was not.  So, thank FEC and CSX for that and the players involved with both deals. 

If it wasn't for the OCCC, there would be no Peabody Hotel and all the other massive hotels that followed (including Shingle Creek).  Orlando would not be known as a major convention city.  There would be no Grande Lakes Resort, nor the convention hotels at Bonnet Creek; no five star brands; no Four Seasons Resort.  Because of all this, you have a lot of money being spent in Orlando.  You have McLaren opening up a dealership.  You already have RR, Bentley, Ferrari, etc.  These are here, and you don't have to go to Tampa.  Did you know that our Neiman Marcus is now what they consider a "tier 1" store in the chain?  

So, every one of these "things" is a piece of a puzzle and each piece needs to be working, like in a car engine.  And you have to change with the times to stay competitive.

So it goes without saying I disagree with everything you said. The county is still spending money on infrastructure regardless, but the OCCC is an economic driver that puts hotel rooms on vacant land, butts in those rooms that spend money on twizzlers and gas, and the clerks that sell those twizzlers and gas have a job and feed their kids.  Hyatt/Peabody did it's part by expanding; Hilton did it's part by building; Rosen has done his part, the bar and restaurant owners have done their part.  The County needs to do it's part to keep it going. 

It's actually a better investment than HSR was in CA hands down...$105B (2019 est.) and climbing... connecting SF to LA (sorry, I meant Bakersfield to Merced). 

And the OCCC is the white elephant? 

The two are not remotely related. At least I understand why you think we’re destined to be Illinois - you want us to waste money like a drunken sailor just like they do.

There’s a reason cities like NYC, Miami, LA, Seattle and Tampa aren’t playing this game. They know it’s a waste. 

We found out when Disney scuttled its Anaheim convention hotel that meeting space is a money loser. You just want to foist that loss on to OC. Thanks, but no. 

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, jliv said:

How much you wanna bet the OCCC expansion proposal will be re-submitted in a year or two with a new ballpark for the Rays attached?  Just sayin...

I don't know enough about MLB and the dynamic of the $$$ commitment needed for the Rays to move here.  Any thoughts you have would be greatly appreciated...

[jrs2]

24 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

The two are not remotely related. At least I understand why you think we’re destined to be Illinois - you want us to waste money like a drunken sailor just like they do.

There’s a reason cities like NYC, Miami, LA, Seattle and Tampa aren’t playing this game. They know it’s a waste. 

We found out when Disney scuttled its Anaheim convention hotel that meeting space is a money loser. You just want to foist that loss on to OC. Thanks, but no. 

Ah, Spen-ser, Spen-ser Spen-ser Spenser... 

You mean a money loser just like mass transit is?

If it's such a money loser, then why did frugal Harris Rosen invest in about half a million ft sq of it split among his three closest convention-class properties?  Why did Comcast invest in a ton of it split between Royal Pacific and Sapphire Falls resorts?

It's an amenity; a functional amenity that draws visitors.

[AmIReal]

49 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

here’s a reason cities like NYC, Miami, LA, Seattle and Tampa aren’t playing this game. They know it’s a waste.

I believe Miami, Seattle and Tampa are currently expanding their convention centers.

 

[spenser1058]

51 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Ah, Spen-ser, Spen-ser Spen-ser Spenser... 

You mean a money loser just like mass transit is?

If it's such a money loser, then why did frugal Harris Rosen invest in about half a million ft sq of it split among his three closest convention-class properties?  Why did Comcast invest in a ton of it split between Royal Pacific and Sapphire Falls resorts?

It's an amenity; a functional amenity that draws visitors.

The thing of it is, there are rapidly diminishing returns on how far you go in those investments. As most of the larger cities in the country (except the worst-managed of the lot) learned from exhaustive research on the topic, beyond a certain point it makes no sense to expand. Even Las Vegas is now diverting portions of its resort tax to other uses.  

Harris Rosen had to put his money where his mouth was because he was dead set against using any of the TDT for other purposes. He wanted the community’s grubby little hands off his money. Even Republican Mel Martinez noted that attitude was akin to Sears not letting anybody else use the sales tax for public purposes.

If it’s such a money maker, let’s sell it to Harris and Universal.

Oh, and what has that huge investment done for the community around it? It’s put us 50 of 50 in wages. Exactly who is benefiting from it? It sure ain’t the average citizen of Orange County.

As for mass transit, it’s worth noting that Harris Rosen and his consigliere Ted Edwards were among the biggest opponents of light rail TO THE CONVENTION CENTER. In any event, we’ve been vastly underinvesting in transit for decades while over investing in the white elephant that is OCCC almost as long. When we reach parity, come back and talk to me.

Meanwhile, your attitude is stuck in the ‘90’s. OC is now the bluest of blue counties - the politics for expansion are going to be further and further out of reach (see Vegas - Chicago’s so messed up who knows what they’re doing; if I lived there, I’d think finally getting effective law enforcement and good schools would be my priority - there’s a reason they’re losing population). There’s a reason Jerry Demings took the pandemic as an exit ramp for that poorly conceived expansion. Jerry was old-school and came up in the political world of giving the tourism community any baubles it wanted. He quickly learned that wasn’t going to fly with his constituents. Good luck with pushing that money pit with the county any further.

An aside about Chicago, it’s worth noting that even Rahm Emanuel, one of the most effective politicians of the last few decades, couldn’t fix what ails it. I would say the state should do like Florida did with Miami and send a Buddy MacKay to put their house in order, but the state seems as bad off as the city. Maybe it just can’t be fixed.

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by spenser1058

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, AmIReal said:

I believe Miami, Seattle and Tampa are currently expanding their convention centers.

 

...even Anaheim is or did...which is the most interesting example of the bunch...

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

The thing of it is, there are rapidly diminishing returns on how far you go in those investments. As most of the larger cities in the country (except the worst-managed of the lot) learned from exhaustive research on the topic, beyond a certain point it makes no sense to expand. Even Las Vegas is now diverting portions of its resort tax to other uses.  

Harris Rosen had to put his money where his mouth was because he was dead set against using any of the TDT for other purposes. He wanted the community’s grubby little hands off his money. Even Republican Mel Martinez noted that attitude was akin to Sears not letting anybody else use the sales tax for public purposes.

If it’s such a money maker, let’s sell it to Harris and Universal.

Oh, and what has that huge investment done for the community around it? It’s put us 50 of 50 in wages. Exactly who is benefiting from it? It sure ain’t the average citizen of Orange County.

As for mass transit, it’s worth noting that Harris Rosen and his consigliere Ted Edwards were among the biggest opponents of light rail TO THE CONVENTION CENTER. In any event, we’ve been vastly underinvesting in transit for decades while over investing in the white elephant that is OCCC almost as long. When we reach parity, come back and talk to me.

Meanwhile, your attitude is stuck in the ‘90’s. OC is now the bluest of blue counties - the politics for expansion are going to be further and further out of reach (see Vegas - Chicago’s so messed up who knows what they’re doing; if I lived there, I’d think finally getting effective law enforcement and good schools would be my priority - there’s a reason they’re losing population). There’s a reason Jerry Demings took the pandemic as an exit ramp for that poorly conceived expansion. Jerry was old-school and came up in the political world of giving the tourism community any baubles it wanted. He quickly learned that wasn’t going to fly with his constituents. Good luck with pushing that money pit with the county any further.

An aside about Chicago, it’s worth noting that even Rahm Emanuel, one of the most effective politicians of the last few decades, couldn’t fix what ails it. I would say the state should do like Florida did with Miami and send a Buddy MacKay to put their house in order, but the state seems as bad off as the city. Maybe it just can’t be fixed.

Wow.  A whole lot to cover here:

Building and/or expanding a convention center is a "red" county phenomenon?  And "blue" politics is diametrically opposed to said expansion?  So this is a political ideology issue? Where did this come from?  Is Cook a red county?  Is New York County with the Javitz Center a red county?  LA County?  SF? Fulton? Is that why you're so opposed to expanding the OCCC b/c it goes against the or your personal "liberal" handbook?  I did not expect that and I am floored right now at this perspective.  So you're saying only Republicans want it expanded?  Wow.  Was it Republicans that expanded McCormick Place...again... within the past ten years?

And Demmings put it on hold because the hotel tax took a nose dive and it's recovery rate was too slow to get back up to pre-covid numbers.

Chicago has crime on the South Side because of gang related violence.  I am not going to get into Chicago politics, but CPD is a fine, well funded police force.  If crime makes its way into downtown or more north it is because of other reasons.  And, if crime and/or protests are curtailed  that is also for other reasons.

I don't know how Rahm Emmanuel suddenly became the civic poster child for "Democrats," and I don't even think that's true, but if that's the best you could come up with, then the future looks very bright with a red tint to it.

As for convention centers not being money makers, Osceola tried to get into the game first with World Expo Center (with a contract from Reed Exhibition), for the big money, which led to big brother litigation with Orange because of their plans to expand the OCCC.   So they quashed Osceola's white elephant because Orange wanted to have the corner on the white elephant market.  And even after this, Osceola still wanted to partner with Gaylord for a private-public CC for Osceola- and that wasn't that long ago.  The games "Republicans" play?  Really?

The factor that put CFLA wages at 50/50 wasn't the OCCC.  It was the Disney and Universal employment machines which predominantly employed a giant percentage of the work force while other better paying  industries lagged behind in growing either because of need, perception, or lack of political nurturing. You can't blame the OCCC for that or even Disney.  If it ain't home grown, then they want perks to move to your swamp.  There's only so many perks you can give an industry when you realize the benefit is outweighed by the cost.  But according to your philosophy (and prior posts), the money is well spent if it is to give tax breaks to liberal Hollywood studios that want to move here, as opposed to a perceivably conservative-rooted industry aka conventions and/or lodging per your comment above. 

"OC is now the bluest of blue counties - the politics for expansion are going to be further and further out of reach"