Orlando Attractions Area News & Developments

[spenser1058]

2 minutes ago, jack said:

The lines at Disney make it seems like they are still number one. 

Cost wise, they are equal fora day pass. Disney really separates themselves with the cost of an annual pass. It was always more expensive than the other parks, but now it blows everyone out of the water. They have decided it is way more profitable to focus on out of towers that are staying on property than locals. 

And it works. In 2019, the latest pre-COVID year we have data for, the Magic Kingdom had roughly double the attendance of the most popular Orlando Uni park (USF).

Anaheim’s Disneyland, which is primarily a local park, also is significantly more popular than Universal Studios Hollywood (also in terms of attendance).
 

[jrs2]

11 hours ago, jgardnerucf said:

if Troy McClure could build a bonified certified kirkman to tangelo park...       

  I'll stop. Lol

so...I looked at Google map and didn't realize the Grand National bridge is in a N/S orientation.  Universal could literally build an elevated rail line from their garages, down Major Blvd, cut a right onto Grand National, take it south past Kirkman, past Carrier, and then take the Greenbrier alignment directly onto their property, then put a maintenance facility building there like WDW has, then build a station ala EPCOT right at the front of Epic U.  Or, they take it  south like I said then veer SW and shadow Universal Blvd to the land they own near ICON Park, then turn east just north of TopGolf, go just to the south of that apartment community but north of the former Wyndham and east back and over the Kirkman extension and onto their property, with potential station near ICON Park.  

Or, they just get an easement over the Universal Blvd overpass, head south and service the Endless Summer resorts, then from there go south.  You can't leave those hotels off the service path (hypothetically- but not so hypothetically if they did in fact receive an easement for transit).

I originally thought that easement over Grand National was gotten b/c of what I was told about five years back, when a vendor told me that Universal survey crews were on site at Artegon taking measurements- I thought they were going to purchase Artegon.  Now that I see the alignment of Grand National more clearly, I bet that they are going to develop a train between the two areas in the future.  And they may start buying up property in between the two park areas in the meantime.

[jrs2]

19 minutes ago, jack said:

The lines at Disney make it seems like they are still number one. 

Cost wise, they are equal fora day pass. Disney really separates themselves with the cost of an annual pass. It was always more expensive than the other parks, but now it blows everyone out of the water. They have decided it is way more profitable to focus on out of towers that are staying on property than locals. 

...which is exactly why Disney has been pushing multi-park multi-day passes and expanding the number of resorts on property.  And it is also why Universal decided to expand after the building bust post-Harry Potter 1 with Sapphire Falls, Aventura, Cabana Bay Phases 1,2,3, Volcano Bay, and the Endless Summer resorts on former Wet n Wild property, and now with Epic U which will feature an on-site hotel to start things off and reports of another resort they plan to develop nearby along the Universal Blvd corridor.

the extended vacation is the name of the game; room nights.  as many as possible.

you know this will actually help the OCCC.  the adjacent hotels can land some bookings b/c of Epic U nearby and it will probably cause some new hotel developments nearby to take advantage of both conventions and Epic U guests.  And since Epic U will be geared to cater to both crowds, this may spring a lot more development there then anyone ever anticipated.

20 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

so...I looked at Google map and didn't realize the Grand National bridge is in a N/S orientation.  Universal could literally build an elevated rail line from their garages, down Major Blvd, cut a right onto Grand National, take it south past Kirkman, past Carrier, and then take the Greenbrier alignment directly onto their property, then put a maintenance facility building there like WDW has, then build a station ala EPCOT right at the front of Epic U.  Or, they take it  south like I said then veer SW and shadow Universal Blvd to the land they own near ICON Park, then turn east just north of TopGolf, go just to the south of that apartment community but north of the former Wyndham and east back and over the Kirkman extension and onto their property, with potential station near ICON Park.  

Or, they just get an easement over the Universal Blvd overpass, head south and service the Endless Summer resorts, then from there go south.  You can't leave those hotels off the service path (hypothetically- but not so hypothetically if they did in fact receive an easement for transit).

I originally thought that easement over Grand National was gotten b/c of what I was told about five years back, when a vendor told me that Universal survey crews were on site at Artegon taking measurements- I thought they were going to purchase Artegon.  Now that I see the alignment of Grand National more clearly, I bet that they are going to develop a train between the two areas in the future.  And they may start buying up property in between the two park areas in the meantime.

I totally forgot about Brightline in this analysis.  if they did build a train to connect the parks, I am certain they would extend it all the way to the future BL station which would be on land they donate at a station that they mostly fund or build.

[codypet]

16 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

I never was either a Disney or a Universal guy.  Growing up in Tampa Bay Area, we were all about Busch Gardens and the newest coasters. I would probably rather go to Sea World right now than any of the current Disney or Universal parks, but I would definitely pay to go to Epic Universe. 

I really enjoy BGSW, but man they can't keep up on this pace of neglecting F&B and cleaning.

[spenser1058]

16 minutes ago, codypet said:

I really enjoy BGSW, but man they can't keep up on this pace of neglecting F&B and cleaning.

Welcome to the Six Flags model. Sadly, it’s what happens when you’re controlled by a PEF. And to think, Busch was once one of the most respected theme park companies.

Speaking of Six Flags, yet another incident which seems to trace back to poor maintenance and the resulting failure of safety protocols.

https://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/202208/9110/

From Theme Park Insider 
 

Edited August 26, 2022 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

Nope, no clones at Universal parks, right?

https://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/202208/9111/

From Theme Park Insider 

“America's first Super Nintendo World will open (at USH) in "early 2023," but the pace of construction suggests to me that the land might be more likely to debut in the first quarter of the new year than the second.

”You can see those wristbands in action in our video tour of the original Super Nintendo World, at Universal Studios Japan.

”Super Nintendo World also will be part of the Epic Universe theme park at Universal Orlando when it opens in 2025.”

I’m certainly glad we cleared that up!

Edited August 26, 2022 by spenser1058

[aent]

On 8/25/2022 at 1:31 PM, spenser1058 said:

It’s so funny to me that, since 1990, Universal fanboys (and they’re mostly all males) have been insisting UO would leave the Mouse in the dust.

32 years later, Disney parks still sit comfortably atop the lists of theme park attendance year after year.

Bottom line, love whichever parks you want to, but Disney execs still have no reason to lose sleep over the natural pecking order of things.

While its clear Disney isn't going anywhere or losing their topped ranked spot, Universal's growth has been much larger then Disney for a while now:

In 2009, Magic Kingdom had 17.2M visitors, in 2019 it was 20.9M, for a growth of 3.7M visitors or 22% growth

In 2009, Universal Studios Orlando had 5.5M and in 2019 it was 10.9M, for a growth of 5.4M visitors or 98% growth

No matter how you slice the numbers, Universal is growing faster then Disney. With Universal's full plan for the south campus, including for Epic Universe to be larger and replace Studios as the main park,  and eventually matching Disney with 4 theme parks and 2 water parks in Orlando, Disney execs should be losing some sleep.

[F-L-A]

23 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

And Universal hasn’t done any clones? Hmmm…

None with such a drawn-out construction period, no. When you're cloning a preexisting ride, you should know exactly what you're doing and how to do it. Universal built & opened Transformers in less than a year, and that's with the difficulties that are inherent to constructing something smack dab in the middle of a park. Tron has already missed its original opening date by a country mile. It's easy to blame Covid, but their competitors never stopped building & even opened multiple attractions during the height of the pandemic, and they didn't even have an important anniversary to celebrate. 

Quote

Nope, no clones at Universal parks, right?

https://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/202208/9111/

From Theme Park Insider 

“America's first Super Nintendo World will open (at USH) in "early 2023," but the pace of construction suggests to me that the land might be more likely to debut in the first quarter of the new year than the second."

”You can see those wristbands in action in our video tour of the original Super Nintendo World, at Universal Studios Japan.

”Super Nintendo World also will be part of the Epic Universe theme park at Universal Orlando when it opens in 2025.”

I’m certainly glad we cleared that up!

Cleared what up? That it appears to be on-schedule?  No one said Universal doesn't clone attractions. 

Quote

And it works. In 2019, the latest pre-COVID year we have data for, the Magic Kingdom had roughly double the attendance of the most popular Orlando Uni park (USF).

Anaheim’s Disneyland, which is primarily a local park, also is significantly more popular than Universal Studios Hollywood (also in terms of attendance).

Disney's parks have always had higher attendance, so that has no bearing on their more recent business practices with regards to pricing and how they see locals vs. tourists. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by F-L-A

[spenser1058]

1 hour ago, F-L-A said:

None with such a drawn-out construction period, no. When you're cloning a preexisting ride, you should know exactly what you're doing and how to do it. Universal built & opened Transformers in less than a year, and that's with the difficulties that are inherent to constructing something smack dab in the middle of a park. Tron has already missed its original opening date by a country mile. It's easy to blame Covid, but their competitors never stopped building & even opened multiple attractions during the height of the pandemic, and they didn't even have an important anniversary to celebrate. 

Cleared what up? That it appears to be on-schedule?  No one said Universal doesn't clone attractions. 

Disney's parks have always had higher attendance, so that has no bearing on their more recent business practices with regards to pricing and how they see locals vs. tourists. 

There was mention of clones in an earlier post. Uni is hardly pure on pricing. It was Uni after all that required fans of their signature Harry Potter attractions to buy an upcharge park to park pass by putting HP in two parks.

Gosh! They make business decisions just like Disney - who knew?

As to how long it takes, Disney already has four parks here. What’s taking Uni so long? Talking about that’s even more comical given how many times Uni dithered before building  here (which allowed Disney to beat them with its studio park by a year). We won’t even mention Uni’s folly of selling the land for Epic when it already had it and having to buy it back. If they didn’t dither so much, they should already have more than two parks.

Edited August 27, 2022 by spenser1058

[F-L-A]

4 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

There was mention of clones in an earlier post. Uni is hardly pure on pricing. It was Uni after all that required fans of their signature Harry Potter attractions to buy an upcharge park to park pass by putting HP in two parks.

Gosh! They make business decisions just like Disney - who knew?

I mentioned clones as part of a point about Disney's efficiency with getting attractions up & running. Everyone knows all the parks clone attractions. 

A park hopper isn't an "upcharge." It's a less expensive way to experience both parks in a single day than buying two separate tickets, and no one is "required" to buy one. Whether or not you're willing to pay for one park or two is entirely up to you. But at least you recognize that Disney does the same thing, spreading their franchises over multiple parks (so I'm not sure why this is a problem?)

[spenser1058]

Well, it ain’t downtown like :08 was, but we can all head to I-Drive and see some of @jrs2’s best moves at the PBR Cowboy Bar:

Pointe Orlando corrals PBR Cowboy Bar with mechanical bull
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-bz-pointe-orlando-mechanical-bull-cowboy-bar-20220829-yvqbg37fkzefron3u3o2xakqo4-story.html

Hmmmm, a contest between him and @AndyPok1 could be incredible!

From The Sentinel 
 

[jrs2]

21 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Well, it ain’t downtown like :08 was, but we can all head to I-Drive and see some of @jrs2’s best moves at the PBR Cowboy Bar:

Pointe Orlando corrals PBR Cowboy Bar with mechanical bull
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-bz-pointe-orlando-mechanical-bull-cowboy-bar-20220829-yvqbg37fkzefron3u3o2xakqo4-story.html

Hmmmm, a contest between him and @AndyPok1 could be incredible!

From The Sentinel 
 

there was a mechanical bull in a bar on Bourbon Street.  that was cool b/c of the setting.  I assume it would translate to I-Drive too. if memory serves, there was a mechanical bull in that country bar at ICON Park back when it opened.

I defer.  If I got on one of those things I'd throw out my back. However I do have a friend that used to be a male stripper that could probably handle it.

[spenser1058]

The lawsuits regarding the land beneath Epic Universe are heating up:

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/552644-land-war-universal-defends-itself-in-lawsuit-over-epic-universe-land-deal/

From Florida Politics 

Stay tuned…
 

[shardoon]

On 8/30/2022 at 8:59 AM, spenser1058 said:

The lawsuits regarding the land beneath Epic Universe are heating up:

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/552644-land-war-universal-defends-itself-in-lawsuit-over-epic-universe-land-deal/

From Florida Politics 

Stay tuned…
 

Fourth watch should get sued for a frivolous lawsuit. At best, they should only be suing the original land owner, NOT universal. If they had some sort of a LOI with the original owner, then the original owner was in breach and responsible for damages.....universal has nothing to do with this. 

Also waiting 4 years to file is rediculousm if there really was something major going on with all their thrill park 750 foot pie in the snow dome plans, they would have sued immediately after the original land owner reneged on the deal. 

This is a money grab. I'd love for the court to see whatever thrill park plans they had and suopena the engineers, archers, and anyone else involved in the development on the exact date when this thrill park was conceived. I bet you a shiny nickel it was after they found out Universal was the one who bought it.

But seriously, what a disaster it would have been is the sale went to fourth watch. This pie in the sky park would have had enough financing chance or even worse than the pollercoaster. The land would still be vacant to this day. 

[jrs2]

22 minutes ago, shardoon said:

Fourth watch should get sued for a frivolous lawsuit. At best, they should only be suing the original land owner, NOT universal. If they had some sort of a LOI with the original owner, then the original owner was in breach and responsible for damages.....universal has nothing to do with this. 

Also waiting 4 years to file is rediculousm if there really was something major going on with all their thrill park 750 foot pie in the snow dome plans, they would have sued immediately after the original land owner reneged on the deal. 

This is a money grab. I'd love for the court to see whatever thrill park plans they had and suopena the engineers, archers, and anyone else involved in the development on the exact date when this thrill park was conceived. I bet you a shiny nickel it was after they found out Universal was the one who bought it.

But seriously, what a disaster it would have been is the sale went to fourth watch. This pie in the sky park would have had enough financing chance or even worse than the pollercoaster. The land would still be vacant to this day. 

LOL.  archers

[aent]

51 minutes ago, shardoon said:

Fourth watch should get sued for a frivolous lawsuit. At best, they should only be suing the original land owner, NOT universal. If they had some sort of a LOI with the original owner, then the original owner was in breach and responsible for damages.....universal has nothing to do with this

Unfortunately, as insane as it is, that is not the law. If it can be shown that Universal knew there was another offer or LOI on the property they made an offer on and ended up purchasing, Universal is in fact liable to the buyer who did not get to complete his transaction. The law is literally insane

[prahaboheme]

2 hours ago, aent said:

Unfortunately, as insane as it is, that is not the law. If it can be shown that Universal knew there was another offer or LOI on the property they made an offer on and ended up purchasing, Universal is in fact liable to the buyer who did not get to complete his transaction. The law is literally insane

How is it insane? Seems rational.

[codypet]

From the article, it appeared that fourth watch didn't have the financing to go through with the deal at which point the contract was void.

Edited September 1, 2022 by codypet

[jrs2]

tortious interference, right?

[shardoon]

This makes about as much sense at the PAC college football conference suing the B1G conference for decimating their pending media contract because the poached USC and UCLA.

[jrs2]

20 hours ago, shardoon said:

This makes about as much sense at the PAC college football conference suing the B1G conference for decimating their pending media contract because the poached USC and UCLA.

good analogy.  but even in that situation there is going to be a buyout or some sort if USC and UCLA are still under contract with the PAC.

it is probably not a frivolous claim per above.  There was a contract, or "was there a contract?" If no money, then that is an arguable point.  "Willfully" would mean that Universal "knew" I suppose of the other contract and still dealt with them.  that's the issue and if there is a question of fact about this, or whether there was a valid contract, or both, it survives a motion for summary judgment, therefore, not frivolous per above.

the elements are (per google):

How do you prove tortious interference?

To prove tortious interference with an existing contract, four elements must be proven:

1. The plaintiff had a valid contract.
2. The defendant willfully and intentionally interfered with the contract.
3. The interference proximately caused the plaintiff's injury.
4. The plaintiff incurred actual damage or loss.

[shardoon]

4 hours ago, jrs2 said:

good analogy.  but even in that situation there is going to be a buyout or some sort if USC and UCLA are still under contract with the PAC.

it is probably not a frivolous claim per above.  There was a contract, or "was there a contract?" If no money, then that is an arguable point.  "Willfully" would mean that Universal "knew" I suppose of the other contract and still dealt with them.  that's the issue and if there is a question of fact about this, or whether there was a valid contract, or both, it survives a motion for summary judgment, therefore, not frivolous per above.

the elements are (per google):

How do you prove tortious interference?

To prove tortious interference with an existing contract, four elements must be proven:

1. The plaintiff had a valid contract.
2. The defendant willfully and intentionally interfered with the contract.
3. The interference proximately caused the plaintiff's injury.
4. The plaintiff incurred actual damage or loss.

#1 is easy to prove. #2 is not.

[aent]

On 9/1/2022 at 2:33 PM, prahaboheme said:

How is it insane? Seems rational.

The part that is insane is there doesn't have to be any breach of the contract, just "interference". In this case, fourth watch may have not been able to have financing go through, so the seller perhaps was looking for other offers. If Universal approached them with an offer, and the seller tells Universal, "I got a contract on this land but its not going to through, they can't get financing" and Universal says ok, we'll make a backup offer for if this doesn't go through, just don't modify your current agreement with them", now Universal is guilty, even though Universal did nothing to encourage a breach.

On 9/1/2022 at 3:01 PM, codypet said:

From the article, it appeared that fourth watch didn't have the financing to go through with the deal at which point the contract was void.

Incorrect, the contract is still valid even without financing or any means to complete the transaction. You have to wait for the actual expiration even if there is no real chance of the transaction closing.

[spenser1058]

Twelve cranes on property - can you imagine how many Port-A-Lets they must have?

Universal puts ‘pedal to the metal’ on Epic Universe project
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-bz-epic-universe-construction-update-september-2022-20220903-cdzht2wmmncwvemxbolveblhne-story.html

From The Sentinel 

[ragerunner]

Universal’s Halloween Horror Nights

The biggest Halloween event got a new nighttime show for 2022 on the lagoon. This is well done, hope you enjoy.