Orlando Attractions Area News & Developments

[JRS1]

Rosen's taking on the big boys Gaylord and Marriott with this project.

the Blue Heron tower 1 I think is the shorter design. 2 of the next 3 are in the 20's in terms of floors.

[prahaboheme]

Gaylord really seems to be in a market of its own in Orlando. I don't see that changing with Shingle Creek.

[JRS1]

Yes, that's true re Gaylord. But re egos, I think Rosen wants to have a flagship property that measures up even though it taps a different market, namely, spillover meeting room space-type of events and smaller shows.

Because now, Rosen Centre is it. it's only got 90,000 ft2 in space (i think). Shingle Creek will have a greater presence overall.

Speaking of Gaylord, any update on the bid to add rooms and expo space in a deal with Osceola County CC?

[sunshine]

I thought that is dead.

They cant compete with OCCC anyway.

[prahaboheme]

If Gaylord had run the Osceola CC, that would have been quite the competition for OCCC. I suspect Gaylord will expand anyway.

[JRS1]

last I heard, Gaylord was to add 400-500 rooms, and go from 400k ft2 to 1.1M ft2, and Osceola would get to hang its shield on the front door.

for sure this is dead? Osceola wants to be a player pretty bad regardless of the tough competition.

[uncreativeusername]

The deal isn't dead, officially. Just 'on hold'. The whole issue of the Osceola convention center was being bogged down by political bull**** and backwardness on the part of the Osceola county nearsightedness. Some key commissioners seemed to be stuck on the idea that the benefit of having a convention center to call their own was merely for the sake of owning a convention center, and seemed oblivious to the fact that the real reason any city/county wants a convention center is to stimulate spin-off business, i.e. tourism/hotels/restaurants/retail.

Osceola had two competing bids for the convention center - one from Gaylord to expand their space, and the second from an outside company (Faulkner) that wanted to build another convention center/hotel complex. Gaylord argued that the Faulkner bid was unfair competition, as the other complex's operating costs would essentially be subsidized by public money, disadvantaging Gaylord at the public's expense. They also argued that it wouldn't help Osceola to build another hotel/convention complex that was to be near the same size as Gaylord/Marriott/Swan-Dolphin. They used an analogy re: cutting the pie to reason that a new project would only serve to oversaturate the supply in the market and fail to bring new business, whereas expanding the Gaylord to offer over 1,000,000 sqft of convention space would put Osceola in a whole new ballgame with leverage to compete against the big names. And certainly no one would say that the addition of 400-500 extra rooms would offset doubling the convention space – the room overflow alone would be significant.

Osceola commissioners were uncomfortable with the Gaylord proposal, however, because at the end of the day, Osceola county wouldn't own the convention center, when in all actuality, most cities know that owning a convention center is a liability in itself. Most cities/counties would if not jump at, at least carefully consider the opportunity to have any convention center within their boundaries, let alone one of the larger ones in the country, with a private company willing to assume all of the operating risks and cost (which, with a 1,000,000 sqft convention center are plentiful.) The County was facing no risk, but still would assume all the gains on the tax base. If Orange County could've had the second largest convention center in the country (run by the leading convention resort company in the county) bringing in all the business that it does without all the monetary trouble that the operation costs are causing, I can't imagine they wouldn't have been enticed by the opportunity.

Gaylord’s blog re: the issue, though somewhat biased, explains all these issues even further - interesting read. It’s chronologically backwards, but start from the bottom, and most of it makes sense…

http://gaylordpalms.blogs.com/unconvention...5/05/index.html

Edited November 18, 2005 by uncreativeusername

[JRS1]

great post and great update. I hope they go with Gaylord on this one.

[EngineerNole]

I went on a field trip for my Steel Design class. We went to Quincy Joist Company in Quincy, FL (outside of Tallahassee). Apparently they supply all of the trusses to Shingle Creek. They had a big blue print of Shingle Creek on the wall. I just thought that was interesting. Supposedly it will be the biggest hotel in the Southeast!

[WeNeed2Progress]

Going back to the discussion of a possible aquarium in Orlando, if you ever get to Atlanta after next week please take a moment to check out the Georgia Aquarium. It is beautiful on many levels. The exhibits are amazing, each unique and beautiful in their own way. The exterior of the building is stunning as well. What would be most beneficial to Orlando having an aquarium if taking a cue from the Georgia Aquarium is how they integrated a great amount of event space within the facility.

I have photos if anyone if interested in my uploading them here. (Just let me know how)

[prahaboheme]

Going back to the discussion of a possible aquarium in Orlando, if you ever get to Atlanta after next week please take a moment to check out the Georgia Aquarium. It is beautiful on many levels. The exhibits are amazing, each unique and beautiful in their own way. The exterior of the building is stunning as well. What would be most beneficial to Orlando having an aquarium if taking a cue from the Georgia Aquarium is how they integrated a great amount of event space within the facility.

I have photos if anyone if interested in my uploading them here. (Just let me know how)

You can send them to me but I cant upload them until Wednesday: [email protected]

[sunshine]

But we already have sea world which is way better than typical aquarium.

[facilities man]

But we already have sea world which is way better than typical aquarium.

That's what I'm thinking. Why build an aquarium in Orlando when we have Sea World??? There's also a nice Aquarium in Tampa an hour and fifteen minutes away. That's plenty close enough for the once a year or once every other year my family goes. Even if it were in Orlando I couldn't see going more often than that.

Edited November 21, 2005 by facilities man

[JRS1]

Shingle Creek-- biggest in the SE in what respect? B/C it only has 1,500 rooms. Marriott World Center, Coronado, Dixie Landings, etc... are larger room-wise. Marriott also has larger convention facilities.

[WeNeed2Progress]

But we already have sea world which is way better than typical aquarium.

I'm sorry but I have to object to this statement. Perhaps to the dimwitted and shallow SeaWorld may be a substitution for a city aquarium, a city or state aquarium offers much more to the community in regard to education and value. Yea, SeaWorld is fun... but when it comes to animal exhibits and teaching youth about sea life, SeaWorld has fallen the wayside for over a decade now.

An aquarium, even under Ripley's could offer much more to our community by way of education and pride within the city. Look at how busy the National Aquarium in Baltimore, the Monterey Bay Aquarium, and soon the Georgia Aquarium are. San Diego is home to a SeaWorld park as well as an aquarium. Though the Birch aquarium is more similar to MOTE Marine in Sarasota, it is still trafficed by visitors and tourists alike.

From a visitor standpoint, an aquarium is primarily indoors... something SeaWorld definitely lacks; and therefore can be enjoyed in all weather conditions and at a much slower pace.

The same attitude would ask "why have a science center in Orlando when we have Epcot?" While I feel we're far from ready to have a zoo, an aquarium is feasible. Like I mentioned before, the aquarium; especially if downtown, can also play host to events (much like the history center) and even include retail and restaurant facilities accessible from the street. Who wouldn't want to eat in an aquarium centered restaurant downtown without having to enter a theme park?

Is anyone else pro-aquarium and it's possibilities or is it only me?

[JRS1]

Enough of the dissing of theme parks vs city museums.

city museums may seem better, but they aren't, in this specific instance. go to the Seaworld website and look at all the habitats they recreated:

Polar Bears, sea lions, penguins, beluga whales, dolphins, killer whales, manattees, sharks, sea turtles, etc... Most aquariums would kill to be able to have half of those exhibits. that stuff is expensive to maintain.

I don't work for Busch, but the facts are that Sea World has more than most, if not all, aquariums out there- but in a theme park setting.

whales and dolphins born in captivity... come on now.

Just b/c it's not in a turn-of-the-century Greek column-clad bldg doesn't mean its crap, although the Greek columns would be nice. Although there are a lot of things wrong with Sea World-- but it definitely has the exhibits to impress.

[Jaybee]

Gee, if California has an acquarium at Long Beach and Monterey (344 miles apart), why would there be a need to have one some 85 miles from an existing one (not to mention the gravity of Sea World).

[WeNeed2Progress]

Gee, if California has an acquarium at Long Beach and Monterey (344 miles apart), why would there be a need to have one some 85 miles from an existing one (not to mention the gravity of Sea World).

Huh?

[JRS1]

Ditto.

Look, the point is simply that people overlook the fact that Sea World has more than any aquarium out there. period. The only other thing Sea World can do that hasn't been done is build a gigantic tank for a Humpback Whale. They still wouldn't get the appropriate respect.

Yes, a city aquarium would be ideal. Do I prefer a big city aquarium over a theme park-- yes.

Exhibit quality vs. a nice big building with exhibits in it. Case in point: KSC.

KSC blows away the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum with its exhibits, but it's cooler to go to the Air and Space if you're from Florida, b/c, well, its the Smithsonian.

----------------------------------------

Here's an idea: Sea World could build an adjacent building called, "Central Florida Aquarium" which has all the fixins of a major city aquarium, but which also connects to Sea World and gives its patrons limited access to the rest of the park (somehow) and the rest of the super-exhibits there to complete the experience.

Or, the city could build it and have Sea World run it and maintain it, and put its might behind it to ensure its success.

A city built and run aquarium in Orlando, although nice, probably couldn't survive. I may be wrong.

[WeNeed2Progress]

Ditto. Look, the point is simply that people overlook the fact that Sea World has more than any aquarium out there. period. The only other thing Sea World can do that hasn't been done is build a gigantic tank for a Humpback Whale. They still wouldn't get the appropriate respect.

A city built and run aquarium in Orlando, although nice, probably couldn't survive. I may be wrong.

We'll see if an aquarium happens or not. Don't think I hate SeaWorld, I go there a lot... however there are some things one takes with them from visiting SeaWorld and others from an aquarium. Personally, I prefer a city aquarium for it's educational value and also to some degree for it's engineering feats. However, SeaWorld has not done anything new or spectacular with their animals for over a decade now. Exhibtis such as the Shark Encounter while having a nice restaurant, the facility and exhibit is a bit outdated now. Why new animal exhibits haven't gone into the park lately? Yea, to compete with other parks SWO built JTA and later Kraken. There is the updated "Blue Horizons" dolphin show and the upcoming "Believe" Shamu show.

However, SWO has been sitting on permits to aqcuire narwhals for years now and has done nothing with them. Yea the new water park will have Commerson's dolphins, but what about the main park? The tropical reef aquarium and touch pool have been offcially closed for going on two years now. To my knowledge there have not been plans to reintroduce the marine life formally from the tropical reef back into the park. If you look at the current roster of animals, SeaWorld is more like "CoastalWorld" or "Mammal World".

I do like your suggestion for rescued Humpback Whales on display... only if rescued, mind you.

The whale sharks are very cool!

Edited November 23, 2005 by WeNeed2Progress

[JRS1]

A friend at Orlando CVB told me that Peabody is now slated to break ground in the Spring.... of 2006, that is.

[JRS1]

Legacy Resort Kissimmee

Someone may have already posted info about it, but on Emporis, it lists a 30 story tower as being U/C.

Anyone know anything about it?

[Go Gators]

Forgive me if this has already been discussed, but on I-4 out by champions Gate, they are building a new project, looks like resort or condo style building. You can see the building/crane from I4. Ive been up at school and noticed it the other day and didnt remember hearing anything about it. It is on the south side of I4.

[JRS1]

Now that, I believe, is part of Reunion Resort. Emporis lists a tower at 12 stories as U/C. I saw that thing from the exit ramp and the two large cranes 2-3 months back. Those are tall cranes for only a 12 story bldg.

[bluewingzz]

I think legacy resort kissimmee is east of gaylord palms on osceola parkway. It's a 4 billion dollar project include townhomes, condos, and a 30 story hotel on 1,600 acres of land.

Edited January 26, 2006 by bluewingzz