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Hampton Development


rusthebuss

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I reall doubt NNews will really have a "DT" and probably will always be a burb. So i wouldn't stress on a WalMart coming to the mid town area.

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I wouldn't say that at all. I view NN as less suburban than Va. Beach in that they already have an established downtown. It can happen. Oyster Point is not NN's true DT but it is a midtown and if they follow in the footsteps of Norfolk/Va. Beach i think they'll do fine. I don't need to see skyscrapers in NN, I just want a higher focus on urban style development and i'd like for them to keep that focus instead of getting distracted by projects like this. If they came out with renderings tommorrow that dictated that this Walmart would be incorporated in some urban/mixed use development instead of being just another big box retail i'd be fully behind it.

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I wouldn't say that at all. I view NN as less suburban than Va. Beach in that they already have an established downtown. It can happen. Oyster Point is not NN's true DT but it is a midtown and if they follow in the footsteps of Norfolk/Va. Beach i think they'll do fine. I don't need to see skyscrapers in NN, I just want a higher focus on urban style development and i'd like for them to keep that focus instead of getting distracted by projects like this. If they came out with renderings tommorrow that dictated that this Walmart would be incorporated in some urban/mixed use development instead of being just another big box retail i'd be fully behind it.

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Long Beach is a suburb of Los Angeles. Newark is a suburb of New York. I rest my case. Suburbs of larger cities can be big and urban themselves, and NNews has made tremendous pushes towards urbanization in the last decade. Calling Midtown the "Peninsula DT" is a very relative term, but it really is the business, retail and social center for the peninsula. Given 10 more years.. I think City Center-like developments will be sprouting up all around the area.

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You are comparing areas with major population, we haven't gotten that far yet. If you seen urban development in Charlotte suburbs and places like that then I would agree with you.

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Then I'll take an example out of this region: Virginia Beach is in all senses a suburb of Norfolk. For many decades it was far smaller until its suburban sub-divisions swallowed up the remanants of land to the green line. Now Va Beach has over 430,000 residents (comparable to Long Beach and greater than Newark, NJ) and is rapidly developing an urban area in its CBD. It may not be a downtown in the traditional sense, but it will have a lot of high rises and dense residential development (Cornerstone, Westin, Cosmopolitan, City View, etc. etc.). In a way (on an appropriate scale) Newport News is attempting to do the same in its midtown area.

Going back to the main point of this, there are 3 Wal Marts within 5 miles of that location... 3 very successful WalMarts. I guess in a way... if it was any other store like that, like a SuperTarget with development around it in a somewhat urban manner, then I wouldn't be upset. If it was a series of boutiques and national retailers like Patrick Henry Marketplace or the retail component being built in Oyster Point, then I would be elated. I hate that in that area's efforts at urbanization and developing itself into a true city---the hub of the Peninsula---Hampton (where the Wal Mart actually will be, I believe, near AMC24 and Hampton Town Center) is letting us down. It seems like we took one step forward, and now two back again. <_<

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Then I'll take an example out of this region: Virginia Beach is in all senses a suburb of Norfolk.  For many decades it was far smaller until its suburban sub-divisions swallowed up the remanants of land to the green line.  Now Va Beach has over 430,000 residents (comparable to Long Beach and greater than Newark, NJ) and is rapidly developing an urban area in its CBD.  It may not be a downtown in the traditional sense, but it will have a lot of high rises and dense residential development (Cornerstone, Westin, Cosmopolitan, City View, etc. etc.).  In a way (on an appropriate scale) Newport News is attempting to do the same in its midtown area. 

Going back to the main point of this, there are 3 Wal Marts within 5 miles of that location... 3 very successful WalMarts.  I guess in a way... if it was any other store like that, like a SuperTarget with development around it in a somewhat urban manner, then I wouldn't be upset.  If it was a series of boutiques and national retailers like Patrick Henry Marketplace or the retail component being built in Oyster Point, then I would be elated.  I hate that in that area's efforts at urbanization and developing itself into a true city---the hub of the Peninsula---Hampton (where the Wal Mart actually will be, I believe, near AMC24 and Hampton Town Center) is letting us down.  It seems like we took one step forward, and now two back again. <_<

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Very well put, i couldn't agree with you more. 3 walmarts within 5 miles is more than enough. This is not an appropriate project for an urban development unless they take specific steps to incorporate this into some type of mixed use concept. I don't believe thats in the stars. No, this will simply be one more big box retailer in an area where it's truly debatable if they even need one. Along with it comes an oversized sprawling parking lot, lots of traffic, and thats pretty much all it will contribute to Newport News.

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Very well put, i couldn't agree with you more. 3 walmarts within 5 miles is more than enough. This is not an appropriate project for an urban development unless they take specific steps to incorporate this into some type of mixed use concept. I don't believe thats in the stars. No, this will simply be one more big box retailer in an area where it's truly debatable if they even need one. Along with it comes an oversized sprawling parking lot, lots of traffic, and thats pretty much all it will contribute to Newport News.

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The Town Center shopping center in Hampton (less than 5 minutes away from the new WalMart location) is a very nice shopping center... but it has a huge parking lot. I think that's my issue with these types of developments. Parking lots are ugly and a waste of extremely valuable real-estate. If a garage 1/6th the area with 7 times the height was built, then they could add additional stores and bring in more money. Why don't developers realize this? I understand that in some cases a huge parking garage and dense development doesn't mix in with the area... but that section of NNews/Hampton is heading in the urban direction. It's about time someone gave it a little nudge.

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but it has a huge parking lot.  I think that's my issue with these types of developments.  Parking lots are ugly and a waste of extremely valuable real-estate.  If a garage 1/6th the area with 7 times the height was built, then they could add additional stores and bring in more money.  Why don't developers realize this? 

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Parking lots are awful for many reasons. They are ugly. They add to the flooding woes we have on our streets. But worst of all, they take up valuable space that could be used for higher density buildings, streets, plants, animals, etc.

However, they are much cheaper than garages (significantly) and that is the trade off for developers. I think that the cost per space is double or triple (or more depending on how expensive concrete and steel get). Most people that shop at big box stores don't like garages or anything urban anyway. They want a huge store with a huge lot so that they can circle around and wait 20-25 mins on a spot because they are too lazy to walk an additional 10 feet... In a garage the people behind would honk because a lot of times there is not a lot of room to go around.

It used to amaze me how people at ODU will sit for literally 30-40 mins for spaces in lots close to the buildings and when I would go to the garage it would be 3/4 empty. And we are talking a two minute walk max from the garage to these lots.

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Parking lots are awful for many reasons.  They are ugly.  They add to the flooding woes we have on our streets.  But worst of all, they take up valuable space that could be used for higher density buildings, streets, plants, animals, etc.

However, they are much cheaper than garages (significantly) and that is the trade off for developers.  I think that the cost per space is double or triple (or more depending on how expensive concrete and steel get).  Most people that shop at big box stores don't like garages or anything urban anyway.  They want a huge store with a huge lot so that they can circle around and wait 20-25 mins on a spot because they are too lazy to walk an additional 10 feet...  In a garage the people behind would honk because a lot of times there is not a lot of room to go around. 

It used to amaze me how people at ODU will sit for literally 30-40 mins for spaces in lots close to the buildings and when I would go to the garage it would be 3/4 empty.  And we are talking a two minute walk max from the garage to these lots.

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Then I say we give them no choice lol. Only garages... and the cost would be recouped in the new stores on the former parking lots.

On a slightly related topic, as Patrick Henry Mall expands, I hope at some point they build a garage. Parking is IMPOSSIBLE to find sometimes.

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  They want a huge store with a huge lot so that they can circle around and wait 20-25 mins on a spot because they are too lazy to walk an additional 10 feet... 

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:lol: ^^^This quote cracks me up, lol. That is so true it's ridiculous. I see it everytime i go to lynnhaven. I usually just park towards the back anyway. I don't mind the walk and

it's easier to get out when the mall lets out.

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:lol: ^^^This quote cracks me up, lol. That is so true it's ridiculous. I see it everytime i go to lynnhaven. I usually just park towards the back anyway. I don't mind the walk and

it's easier to get out when the mall lets out.

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Oh Jeez. The rush of 10,000 haggard shoppers suddenly making a mass exodus onto overjammed roads is like a horror film. Jefferson Avenue is a frightening place in rush hour. Let me tell you.........

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Oh Jeez.  The rush of 10,000 haggard shoppers suddenly making a mass exodus onto overjammed roads is like a horror film.  Jefferson Avenue is a frightening place in rush hour.  Let me tell you.........

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:rofl: To me suburbia is a horror film in and of itself. If i had the money i'd be in one of those new condos so quick you wouldn't believe it. But alas, I'm trapped in a sea of Walmarts and 7-11s :lol:

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:rofl: To me suburbia is a horror film in and of itself. If i had the money i'd be in one of those new condos so quick you wouldn't believe it. But alas, I'm trapped in a sea of Walmarts and 7-11s  :lol:

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7-11s!!!!!!!! You touched upon a soft spot!!! I hate those #&$%ing things! They're like locusts swarming our area! The one at Jefferson and Oyster Point Rd especially angers me. Couldn't they do something better than have ANOTHER gas station directly across from ANOTHER ONE OF A DIFFERENT BRAND!?!?!?!?!

And I digress.

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^ I have always parked out from everyone although I must say its b/c I have a newer car and if something happens to it well it won't be pretty. lol  :lol:

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LOL, yeah i know how you feel but it seems the more you try to protect it the more someone tries to destroy it the means of jealousy. I'm looking to get a Acura RSX Type S around the Nov-Dec time frame and i'm right with you about parking far away from everyone!!!

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This is an extremely random (yet semi-related) segway onto a different topic and I'm curious to know what others think about it. A project that's been largely neglected on here is the Power Plant of Hampton Roads, here, in Hampton. It was slated to become a "Major draw for shoppers and tourists and was supposed to revitalize Coliseum Central". It's been modestly successful but hasn't quite, yet lived up to that original goal... When the project was first brought up I pictured a Downtown Disney feel to it. I don't know who out there has been to DT Disney in Orlando, but it is rather un-Disney. It's a major shopping, dining, and entertainment district with a Cirque du Soleil Theater, themed restaurants, a Virgin Megastore, and "Pleasure Island" with many nightclubs and comedy bars. That idea really excited me and I pictured a vibrant new district that really WOULD revitalize Coliseum. I know it's only barely starting its full development... but a Lowe's, Bass Pro (although successful), and smattering of "lakefront cafes" doesn't cut it.

And back to a previous topic... the big-ass parking lots really piss me off. :angry:

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This is an extremely random (yet semi-related) segway onto a different topic and I'm curious to know what others think about it.  A project that's been largely neglected on here is the Power Plant of Hampton Roads, here, in Hampton.  It was slated to become a "Major draw for shoppers and tourists and was supposed to revitalize Coliseum Central".  It's been modestly successful but hasn't quite, yet lived up to that original goal...  When the project was first brought up I pictured a Downtown Disney feel to it.  I don't know who out there has been to DT Disney in Orlando, but it is rather un-Disney.  It's a major shopping, dining, and entertainment district with a Cirque du Soleil Theater, themed restaurants, a Virgin Megastore, and "Pleasure Island" with many nightclubs and comedy bars.  That idea really excited me and I pictured a vibrant new district that really WOULD revitalize Coliseum.  I know it's only barely starting its full development... but a Lowe's, Bass Pro (although successful), and smattering of "lakefront cafes" doesn't cut it. 

And back to a previous topic... the big-ass parking lots really piss me off.  :angry:

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First of all, parking garages are only built when land is scarce. Not one construction company will pay for something unless they have to. And if you tell them they have to and there is plenty of land to build a surface lot they will take there butts elsewhere. As much as I dislike suburban development, it takes suburban development to get to urban development. I remeber twenty years ago hampton and newport news were mostly a rural area except for the small!!!! downtown areas. Now we have turned suburban and are on the verge of heading into an urban area. There is a method to the madness. As land becomes scarce then projects become more and more urban. The problem is that land is not quite scarce here in hampton, therefore you will continue to see the large shopping centers and parking lots. But, the projects are becoming more and more urban. Colliseum mall area, colliseum condos (mixed use residential) are already under construction, The shopping center on mercury beside the mall will be turned into mixed use districts, downtown already has two sets of condo developments started, with a couple more sets slated to start later this year. It takes time to get to urban development, unfortunately you have to have a suburban environment first. Norfolk was not always a thriving metro. It had its humble beginnings as a suburban area, granted a long time ago. But look at gent, it was a suburban area as much of the rest of norfolk was, over time these places have morphed into more of an urban area. Don't blast suburban development, because it is the stepping stones to urban development.

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First of all, parking garages are only built when land is scarce.  Not one construction company will pay for something unless they have to.  And if you tell them they have to and there is plenty of land to build a surface lot they will take there butts elsewhere.  As much as I dislike suburban development, it takes suburban development to get to urban development.  I remeber twenty years ago hampton and newport news were mostly a rural area except for the small!!!! downtown areas.  Now we have turned suburban and are on the verge of heading into an urban area.  There is a method to the madness.  As land becomes scarce then projects become more and more urban.  The problem is that land is not quite scarce here in hampton, therefore you will continue to see the large shopping centers and parking lots.  But, the projects are becoming more and more urban.  Colliseum mall area, colliseum condos (mixed use residential) are already under construction,  The shopping center on mercury beside the mall will be turned into mixed use districts,  downtown already has two sets of condo developments started, with a couple more sets slated to start later this year.  It takes time to get to urban development, unfortunately you have to have a suburban environment first.  Norfolk was not always a thriving metro.  It had its humble beginnings as a suburban area, granted a long time ago.  But look at gent, it was a suburban area as much of the rest of norfolk was,  over time these places have morphed into more of an urban area.  Don't blast suburban development, because it is the stepping stones to urban development.

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I'm not blasting suburban development.. but the Cordish Co. promised a project similar to the one in Baltimore and this one is more along the lines of the massive Patrick Henry area strip malls. I just don't think we got what we were promised... perhaps in time we'll get more out of it and additional urban developments... but I'm not seeing it right now.

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I'm not blasting suburban development.. but the Cordish Co. promised a project similar to the one in Baltimore and this one is more along the lines of the massive Patrick Henry area strip malls.  I just don't think we got what we were promised... perhaps in time we'll get more out of it and additional urban developments... but I'm not seeing it right now.

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What alot people don't realize is that the pennisula depends on what is happening on the southside. You guys might have to wait untill Norfolk and Vabeach have extensive build up and I know alot of things are happening over there but majority of the population is on the southside and therefore more urban development but on the other hand the pennisula is more scarse on land!

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What alot people don't realize is that the pennisula depends on what is happening on the southside. You guys might have to wait untill Norfolk and Vabeach have extensive build up and I know alot of things are happening over there but majority of the population is on the southside and therefore more urban development but on the other hand the pennisula is more scarse on land!

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I think that if we can get newport news to put a so called 'green line at Denbigh and not allow more suburban sprawl than we would see alot more urban projects. Untill that happens people are just going to continue their northward movement until you hit williamsburg. I have a problem with suburban sprawl because it uses up resources that are unnecessary.

Also i am not blasting you Peninsula kiddo, I am just telling you that suburban developments are not all bad. They are stepping stones to something better. Suburban sprawl on the other hand is completely disgusting and unnecessary. Building in Newport news in the middle of the peninsula is not suburban sprawl, (the walmart is nowhere near the city center, its at least two miles away). It will be one of four that currently serve a population of over 350,000 people crammed into an area smaller than the size of norfolk/portsmouth. More urban developments are on the way, but they take time. We will probably never see newport news on the level of norfolk in our lifetime, slowly but surely however it will. And as land becomes more scarce the developments become more urban. :thumbsup:

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What alot people don't realize is that the pennisula depends on what is happening on the southside. You guys might have to wait untill Norfolk and Vabeach have extensive build up and I know alot of things are happening over there but majority of the population is on the southside and therefore more urban development but on the other hand the pennisula is more scarse on land!

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The Peninsula is built-out. Your last point was on the money... we have almost no land whatsoever, and while we have 1/2 the people, we have a much smaller fraction of the land.

Also, the Peninsula doesn't depend on the Southside as far as economic development... It has generated a large economy on it's own based on shipbuilding, the military, and government jobs. Now the private sector (big corporations) are taking notice as well and relocating to Oyster Point, etc.

I understand what you say and it has valid points, but the Peninsula is ready. We have 1/2 million residents on less than 300 square miles of land... Not bad?

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I'm not blasting suburban development.. but the Cordish Co. promised a project similar to the one in Baltimore and this one is more along the lines of the massive Patrick Henry area strip malls.  I just don't think we got what we were promised... perhaps in time we'll get more out of it and additional urban developments... but I'm not seeing it right now.

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I agree with you, but even though we don't have an espn zone it is a unique environment. Heck, I've tried to get into the club there and havn't been able to get in each time, it was jam packed. That place is doing killer business and it hasn't even officially opened yet. All of the businesses there are doing very well. There should be a couple more clubs coming and come summer time that place will be hoppin'.

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I think that if we can get newport news to put a so called 'green line at Denbigh and not allow more suburban sprawl than we would see alot more urban projects.  Untill that happens people are just going to continue their northward movement until you hit williamsburg.  I have a problem with suburban sprawl because it uses up resources that are unnecessary.

Also i am not blasting you Peninsula kiddo, I am just telling you that suburban developments are not all bad.  They are stepping stones to something better.  Suburban sprawl on the other hand is completely disgusting and unnecessary.  Building in Newport news in the middle of the peninsula is not suburban sprawl, (the walmart is nowhere near the city center, its at least two miles away).  It will be one of four that currently serve a population of over 350,000 people crammed into an area smaller than the size of norfolk/portsmouth.  More urban developments are on the way, but they take time.  We will probably never see newport news on the level of norfolk in our lifetime, slowly but surely however it will.  And as land becomes more scarce the developments become more urban.  :thumbsup:

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I hear you.. and we are a large enough market to support another WalMart, but we're also large enough (and wealthy enough, collectively) to support more-upscale developments...

The only reason I'm not fond of 3-story walk-ups is that they're all over the area already. I'd like to see a little variety... Anyone who drives past the Mercury Blvd. Interchange on I-64 sees the new suburban-esque apartments there.. and they're just one development out of perhaps over 100. The Peninsula needs to do what Va Beach and Norfolk have done: isolate the areas that need restrictions that prompt more urban development and allow the other areas to go on as suburban.

And the Green Line idea north of Denbigh is what I've been saying FOREVER. Excellent point. Newport News needs to stop where it's at and start building up.

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I agree with you, but even though we don't have an espn zone it is a unique environment.  Heck, I've tried to get into the club there and havn't been able to get in each time, it was jam packed.  That place is doing killer business and it hasn't even officially opened yet.  All of the businesses there are doing very well.  There should be a couple more clubs coming and come summer time that place will be hoppin'.

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I went to Bass Pro (yes... boy clad in Express and Abercrombie in there.. quite a sight to behold) and it was quite impressive... Almost Disney-ish in its scale and detail. VERY impressive actually. The rest is a bit lackluster and they need to ramp it up around Power Plant... there is, however, a large site across the street (power plant pkwy) and hopefully it'll fulfill a few promises *crosses fingers*

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The Peninsula is built-out.  Your last point was on the money... we have almost no land whatsoever, and while we have 1/2 the people, we have a much smaller fraction of the land.

Also, the Peninsula doesn't depend on the Southside as far as economic development...  It has generated a large economy on it's own based on shipbuilding, the military, and government jobs.  Now the private sector (big corporations) are taking notice as well and relocating to Oyster Point, etc. 

I understand what you say and it has valid points, but the Peninsula is ready.  We have 1/2 million residents on less than 300 square miles of land...  Not bad?

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We still rely on southside too. Most of the economic development lately has been from southside. There are at least three shipping companies that are opening up shipping warehouses to transport goods in hampton. Also, without Norfolk's navy base, newport news shipbuilding wouldn't get half of the overhauls they do. Although they would still get the new construction considering that they are the only yard set up for new carrier construction. We as a region depend on each other and the economic development offices understood that too. That is why there is one economic develpment team now that is united and covers the whole region. As far as oyster point, most of the businesses that have moved in there are relocations. Some are new such as new restaraunts and specialty shops, but the majority of businesses there are relocations, Langley Federal, Harvey Lindsay, City of Newport News, etc... We need to get more companies to actually come here and set up shop, instead of the bunny hopping that is going on now.

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