Other Metro Area Projects

[aent]

5 hours ago, JFW657 said:

I don't get into all that "inside baseball" (no reference to Bush, his team or even baseball in general) stuff when it comes to developers, track records, are they serious players or not, etc, etc.

I just go with my (rather substantial these days) gut. If a proposed project seems plausible in terms of its scope and location, I'll keep an open mind, but remain skeptical enough to not be surprised or disappointed when it flops.

Thanks, Tradition Towers.

Anyway, I never really thought the high-rise helicopter mall sounded very serious but I never discounted it out of hand, either.

My attitude was always a hopeful wait-and-see. 

Yup, I agree. I don't think that project was terribly unreasonable, outside of teh ever increasing number of stars they stuck on the hotels. I do think I-Drive and Orlando is ripe for some more 4 and 5 star hotels, especially on I-Drive somewhere between OCCC and Universal's properties. That proposal wouldn't have been out of hand for Vegas, and I believe its time someone tries that concept here. For the number of visitors we have (our often sited #1 claim), our lack of 5 star hotels is pretty stunning to me. And IMHO Universal has expressed little desire in even bothering with the 5 star market.

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, aent said:

Yup, I agree. I don't think that project was terribly unreasonable, outside of teh ever increasing number of stars they stuck on the hotels. I do think I-Drive and Orlando is ripe for some more 4 and 5 star hotels, especially on I-Drive somewhere between OCCC and Universal's properties. That proposal wouldn't have been out of hand for Vegas, and I believe its time someone tries that concept here. For the number of visitors we have (our often sited #1 claim), our lack of 5 star hotels is pretty stunning to me. And IMHO Universal has expressed little desire in even bothering with the 5 star market.

Maybe that's because the majority of Orlando's visitors aren't "5 star type" customers or in the economic class that can afford to stay in 5 star hotels.

I remember reading somewhere once many years ago, an article in which Orlando was referred to as a "JC Penney's" kind of city.  

Maybe we and our attractions are still just too middle class to attract that level of hotel guest.

[spenser1058]

12 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Maybe that's because the majority of Orlando's visitors aren't "5 star type" customers or in the economic class that can afford to stay in 5 star hotels.

I remember reading somewhere once many years ago, an article in which Orlando was referred to as a "JC Penney's" kind of city.  

Maybe we and our attractions are still just too middle class to attract that level of hotel guest.

The presence of a Four Seasons and a Waldorf-Astoria would suggest otherwise.

You’re probably right that a “7-Star” resort at that intersection was absurd (one of the qualifiers for 5-star status is the facility not be easily accessible to everyone). More important was the fact the developer was all hat and no cattle.

[aent]

 

30 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

(one of the qualifiers for 5-star status is the facility not be easily accessible to everyone)

Errm, really? I've been to a few that were fairly easily accessible to everyone unless I'm not understanding you.

 

49 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Maybe that's because the majority of Orlando's visitors aren't "5 star type" customers or in the economic class that can afford to stay in 5 star hotels.

I remember reading somewhere once many years ago, an article in which Orlando was referred to as a "JC Penney's" kind of city.  

Maybe we and our attractions are still just too middle class to attract that level of hotel guest.

While obviously the majority are not the 5 star type, its hard to believe we only have demand for our few 5 star hotels hotels... and nothing near OCCC/Universal. OCCC hosts a number of conventions that my understanding is very high level executives at large companies attend, and is Universal really so far behind Disney that it has no demand for a 5 star resort? Plus, if one actually started its planning now, it'd likely open around the time of Universal's new park, which I imagine should further increase demand.

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

The presence of a Four Seasons and a Waldorf-Astoria would suggest otherwise.

You’re probably right that a “7-Star” resort at that intersection was absurd (one of the qualifiers for 5-star status is the facility not be easily accessible to everyone). More important was the fact the developer was all hat and no cattle.

Well, this topic got me curious about the whole hotel star rating system and exactly who it is who hands out the stars.

Interestingly, there are various groups and associations who rate hotels with stars, but there is no consistent, established set of criteria for achieving a particular rating. 

Therefor, I figured that the organization who created and first started using the star rating system would be the folks to defer to.

That group as I found out, is The Forbes Travel Guide who started it back in the 50's.

Inasmuch as they are the great granddaddy of hotel star ratings, I checked with them.

According to Forbes Travel Guide, the Orlando area has two 4 star properties, The Ritz-Carlton Orlando Grande Lakes Hotel and The Ritz-Carlton Orlando Grande Lakes Spa.

No 5 star properties are listed.

https://www.forbestravelguide.com/award-winners 

[spenser1058]

4 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Well, this topic got me curious about the whole hotel star rating system and exactly who it is who hands out the stars.

Interestingly, there are various groups and associations who rate hotels with stars, but there is no consistent, established set of criteria for achieving a particular rating. 

Therefor, I figured that the organization who created and first started using the star rating system would be the folks to defer to.

That group as I found out, is The Forbes Travel Guide who started it back in the 50's.

Inasmuch as they are the great granddaddy of hotel star ratings, I checked with them.

According to Forbes Travel Guide, the Orlando area has two 4 star properties, The Ritz-Carlton Orlando Grande Lakes Hotel and The Ritz-Carlton Orlando Grande Lakes Spa.

No 5 star properties are listed.

https://www.forbestravelguide.com/award-winners 

The Four Seasons is 5-diamond with AAA. There are several four-diamond ones. 

US News, the folks who rank colleges, hospitals and everything else under heaven, also gave it five stars.

Generally, a Four Seasons property is in a class by itself. The Waldorf-Astoria is at the top of Hilton’s tiers.

The next tier down, four diamond or four star, includes a number of properties.

Suffice it to say, Orlando is able to compete at those levels without much difficulty.

Edited December 27, 2019 by spenser1058

[JFW657]

5 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

The Four Seasons is 5-diamond with AAA. There are several four-diamond ones. 

US News, the folks who rank colleges, hospitals and everything else under heaven, also gave it five stars.

Generally, a Four Seasons property is in a class by itself. The Waldorf-Astoria is at the top of Hilton’s tiers.

The next tier down, four diamond or four star, includes a number of properties.

Suffice it to say, Orlando is able to compete at those levels without much difficulty.

I'm not saying Orlando doesn't have any top quality hotels. All I'm saying is, that with regards to ranking systems that utilize symbols like stars, diamonds, smiley faces etc, it's subjective because there is no one official set of standards or guidelines.

So a property that is 5 thing-a-ma-jigs s in one book, might be 4 what-cha-ma-call-its in another. 

[HankStrong]

I rate myself 11 stars.

[spenser1058]

5 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

I rate myself 11 stars.

What a lovely hotel you’d make!

[aent]

9 hours ago, JFW657 said:

I'm not saying Orlando doesn't have any top quality hotels. All I'm saying is, that with regards to ranking systems that utilize symbols like stars, diamonds, smiley faces etc, it's subjective because there is no one official set of standards or guidelines.

So a property that is 5 thing-a-ma-jigs s in one book, might be 4 what-cha-ma-call-its in another. 

I think you mistyped. You quoted the Ritz Carlton Spa instead of the Four Seasons, which is what spenser was replying to.

But you do further my point: how can Orlando not be deserving of one five star resort amongst Disney (which does attract a ton of wealthy people and has all sorts of secret things to help them enjoy their stay... I don't know, is it just that Disney doesn't want to give them 5 star accommodations so they're forced to buy a multi-million dollar vacation home in Disney's Golden Oak?)

Perhaps its just that staying on property for the full Disney or Universal experience just so far out trumps the needs of guests who would usually stay at 5 star hotels. I'm not sure, I'm just having difficulty understanding the lack of an attempt to build just one between OCCC and Universal.

[spenser1058]

18 minutes ago, aent said:

I think you mistyped. You quoted the Ritz Carlton Spa instead of the Four Seasons, which is what spenser was replying to.

But you do further my point: how can Orlando not be deserving of one five star resort amongst Disney (which does attract a ton of wealthy people and has all sorts of secret things to help them enjoy their stay... I don't know, is it just that Disney doesn't want to give them 5 star accommodations so they're forced to buy a multi-million dollar vacation home in Disney's Golden Oak?)

Perhaps its just that staying on property for the full Disney or Universal experience just so far out trumps the needs of guests who would usually stay at 5 star hotels. I'm not sure, I'm just having difficulty understanding the lack of an attempt to build just one between OCCC and Universal.

AAA does go five as does US News - it’s the only one at the moment.

AAA is a standard in the industry - JFW is the first I’ve heard quote Forbes, but hey, maybe they’re up and coming (or else another heir wants to earn bucks to make a presidential run on the flat tax!)

[JFW657]

10 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

AAA does go five as does US News - it’s the only one at the moment.

AAA is a standard in the industry - JFW is the first I’ve heard quote Forbes, but hey, maybe they’re up and coming (or else another heir wants to earn bucks to make a presidential run on the flat tax!)

You may have missed it in my earlier post, but The Forbes Travel Guide were the ones who created the 5 star rating system for hotels back in the late 1950's. They were the first ones to ever use any kind of hotel rating system period. They basically invented it.

Everyone else is copying them.

[spenser1058]

4 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

You may have missed it in my earlier post, but The Forbes Travel Guide were the ones who created the 5 star rating system for hotels back in the late 1950's. They were the first ones to ever use any kind of hotel rating system period. They basically invented it.

Everyone else is copying them.

 Ford basically invented the American auto industry but hasn’t been atop it in more than 60 years. The inventor isn’t who matters - it’s who runs best with it. See also: the Betamax, IBM pc’s and Xerox GUI systems.

Edited December 28, 2019 by spenser1058

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

 Ford basically invented the American auto industry but hasn’t been atop it in more than 60 years. The inventor isn’t who matters - it’s who runs best with it. See also: the Betamax, IBM pc’s and Xerox GUI systems.

First of all, I was just responding to your "up and coming" comment.

But since you brought it up, how does one know in this case, "who runs best with it", unless some authoritative party visited every hotel AAA rates and checked whether or not those hotels meet whatever the standards are that they set for a hotel to receive a given rating?

And do we know that or even if, AAA's criteria are the most stringent and exacting in the industry?

How do we know that any old dump that would only get 4 stars by another rating system can't get a 5 star rating from AAA? 

Once again, if there is no official and rigidly adhered to set of standards to which the properties are regularly inspected for, anyone can give any hotel any number of stars they want to, for any reason they want to.

My point being that until some governing body or industry association creates a set of universal standards, they're all basically meaningless for any purposes other than marketing and as an advertising gimmick.

 

.

Edited December 28, 2019 by JFW657

[prahaboheme]

There are 3 hotels in Orlando ranked as 5-star across most outlets  that hold these rankings:

Ritz-Carlton Grande Lakes

Waldorf Astoria

Four Seasons 

As an anecdote, I’ve heard recently that Disney is feeling the impact of 5-star service on its signature resorts and is in the process of upping their service to compete. 

[aent]

23 hours ago, JFW657 said:

My point being that until some governing body or industry association creates a set of universal standards, they're all basically meaningless for any purposes other than marketing and as an advertising gimmick.

 

Well, technically, isn't that what AAA (a nonprofit industry association) did?

But yeah, looking through the lists mentioned, they're all over the place. Forbes seems to like Miami, rating five of their hotels 5 stars, while AAA only rated 2 of them 5 diamond. Forbes as previously mentioned rated none of the Orlando hotels 5 stars, but AAA did. So its not a higher standard, its just a different standard thats a bit all over the place, as ya'll say.

[HankStrong]

I just think we should call my cousin Toby and ask him for some star ratings.  He's stayed in quite a few Motel 6s over his time on the road.  I'm calling that qualified.

[spenser1058]

The Central Florida Fair is getting a new 40000sf Livestock and Event Pavilion including new restrooms for fairgoers.

It turns out serious livestock sales go on - it’s not simply a quaint tradition from the fair’s 108 year past.

The fairgrounds are on West Colonial Drive on Lake Lawne. The fair was long located where the UCF/VD campus now sits and moved in the 1980’s as part of a land swap with Orlando to facilitate the construction of the original Orlando Arena.

https://www.thedailycity.com/post/central-florida-fair

From The Daily City

[spenser1058]

2 hours ago, HankStrong said:

I just think we should call my cousin Toby and ask him for some star ratings.  He's stayed in quite a few Motel 6s over his time on the road.  I'm calling that qualified.

Does Toby give 7-Star ratings? We need someone to do that.

[HankStrong]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Does Toby give 7-Star ratings? We need someone to do that.

I'm pretty sure with the right palm greasing, he could.  He's cheap!

[AmIReal]

Since the "Park" thread is closed and I didn't think this fit in "Trails", I'll post here.

There seems to be a lot of park activity going on in the City, particularly west of 4. The major upgrades going on at Lorna Doone are going to be really nice. I ran that area last weekend and was impressed at how large it is. They didn't take my suggestion (surprise) to include the space between Church St and South St, but I'm hopeful it also gets improved. I think I read this is scheduled for open late spring.

3 miles north of there is the Packing District which includes tons of park space and will (planned) include the Orlando Tennis Center.

3 miles north of there is a huge rework of Trotters Park and Lake Fairview Park. According to the update from staff in Dec..."The City plans to develop additional park space in Trotters Park and Lake Fairview Park. These improvements will be done in three phases with the first two phases at Trotters Park and the third phase at Lake Fairview Park. The first phase will include 2 new soccer fields, 228 space parking lot, new picnic pavilions, a new playground, multi-use sports courts, expansion of sidewalks, and a renovation of the existing parking lot. The second phase, if funding permits, would include 2 new soccer fields, 2 new softball fields, picnic pavilions, 256 additional parking spaces, multi-use recreational trail, and an expansion of the internalized sidewalk network. Phase 3 at Lake Fairview Park will include park improvements, a new entrance driveway to align with Trotters Park’s entrance, and a new stoplight. " Mark B has pictures- https://www.thedailycity.com/post/orlando-parks

I guess you could also include the commons at CV and Under I4 in the mix.

Now connect all of those in a cohesive, bike friendly way. I guess JYP is the most obvious connection.

 

 

 

[HankStrong]

We have closed threads here???? Seriously?  I've never noticed one.

[AmIReal]

1 hour ago, HankStrong said:

We have closed threads here???? Seriously?  I've never noticed one.

Yeah, I had to go all the way to page 5 to find the topic and it says

"Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies."

[JFW657]

Apparently threads here have a freshness date.

 

[spenser1058]

8 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Apparently threads here have a freshness date.

 

I always try to be fresh!