Other Metro Area Projects

[WeNeed2Progress]

definitely not in the know on this, but, I totally believe it and can visualize it. I was preaching the need for a new wing long ago, perhaps where Cheesecake Factory entrance is... and if they run out of spaces, build a parking deck- since it's a multi level mall it should be easy to incorporate. it would be perfect and reinforce the high density mindset they currently have.

Actually, if I remember correctly, the addition to the mall was supposed to go from the Orangerie Food Court to the outside area where parking is now. The plan was to build an entertainment and dining complex similar to its sister mall, The International Mall in Tampa. I think Orlando is oversaturated with entertainment complexes as it currently stands, so hope this isn't in the works.

The mall I'd like to see fixed up by a major anchor is the Fashion Square Mall. This mall is in serious need of an overhaul to lure new shoppers. The location, in my opinion, is great. I just think it's the offerings that set it back. If a multi-floor Super Target were affixed to the mall, it may help with traffic.

Edited November 30, 2008 by WeNeed2Progress

[Jaybee]

There have been plans around for the expansion of the Millenia Mall, out the Food Court. But, I don't even know if the Nordstrom Rack has begun north of Ikea. Mostly medium sized spaces (to handle an "H&M" size store), with plans for a parking garage in the Macy's parking lot; I think I may have mentioned this earlier this year... but nothing concrete has happened yet.

As far as Fashion Square is concerned, they are not allowed to expand until the 436/Colonial interchange is completed; there were plans featured in ULI's magazine a year and a half ago - mostly placing outdoor style shopping on the perimeter of the mall (mostly on the south/east side), extending the Katy Way Trail through this new addition, etc.

[spenser1058]

It would appear that the malls may not doing anything for a bit, as it seems it may be their turn next to deal with the credit crunch:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/12/realesta...nomy&st=cse

[gibby]

That article is from September 2007.

[spenser1058]

That article is from September 2007.

Sorry about that, wrong link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/15/realesta...unch&st=cse

GGP owns West Oaks, Altamonte and Oviedo Marketplace locally. Simon (the Premium Outlets, Waterford Lakes, Seminole Towne Center, and Florida Mall, etc.) seems to be holding its own at the moment. Taubman, which owns Millenia, was somewhat weakened from their tussle with an attempted takeover by Simon a couple of years back plus some legal issues which sent their founder to jail briefly and is apparently still recovering. OFS is owned by Pennsylvania REIT, and I have not seenany info on them, but it was my understanding that REIT's generally are in a wait-and-see mode at the moment.

Edited November 30, 2008 by spenser1058

[facilities man]

There have been plans around for the expansion of the Millenia Mall, out the Food Court. But, I don't even know if the Nordstrom Rack has begun north of Ikea. Mostly medium sized spaces (to handle an "H&M" size store), with plans for a parking garage in the Macy's parking lot; I think I may have mentioned this earlier this year... but nothing concrete has happened yet.

As far as Fashion Square is concerned, they are not allowed to expand until the 436/Colonial interchange is completed; there were plans featured in ULI's magazine a year and a half ago - mostly placing outdoor style shopping on the perimeter of the mall (mostly on the south/east side), extending the Katy Way Trail through this new addition, etc.

That would be smart. It would better link the mall to Baldwin Park.

[JRS1]

The mall I'd like to see fixed up by a major anchor is the Fashion Square Mall. This mall is in serious need of an overhaul to lure new shoppers. The location, in my opinion, is great. I just think it's the offerings that set it back. If a multi-floor Super Target were affixed to the mall, it may help with traffic.

a multi-level Target would turn it into Lake Square Mall.

[JRS1]

there's a big 'ole elevator core going up just west of Charles Schwaab/ EA on the north side of 414. any thoughts?

[facilities man]

there's a big 'ole elevator core going up just west of Charles Schwaab/ EA on the north side of 414. any thoughts?

I believe this is the first building of an eventual 1,000,000 sq. ft. project by either Emerson or Duke that will stretch Maitland Center over to SR 434. They had planned a few office buildings, a hotel, and a little retail. It will tie into the newer Publix plaza along SR 434 in Altamonte Springs via a new road running from the corner of the plaza's property and connecting by EA behind RDV.

The elevator core appears to be about 4 or 5 stories already. I think most of the proposed buildings were to be 6 floors.

[JRS1]

I believe this is the first building of an eventual 1,000,000 sq. ft. project by either Emerson or Duke that will stretch Maitland Center over to SR 434. They had planned a few office buildings, a hotel, and a little retail. It will tie into the newer Publix plaza along SR 434 in Altamonte Springs via a new road running from the corner of the plaza's property and connecting by EA behind RDV.

The elevator core appears to be about 4 or 5 stories already. I think most of the proposed buildings were to be 6 floors.

that's exciting. alternate routes around Maitland Blvd. are always a good thing.

6 stories is a decent height; too bad they aren't building those in downtown to fill up some of the empty tree-less lots.

[facilities man]

Two elevator cores are up 6 stories, and a third one looks to be up five floors so far. It looks like two main elevator cores and one smaller service elevator. This should be a fairly large building.

[JRS1]

Two elevator cores are up 6 stories, and a third one looks to be up five floors so far. It looks like two main elevator cores and one smaller service elevator. This should be a fairly large building.

I'm curious to see how it turns out. I wonder if the 414 extension/Apopka bypass had anything to do with the developers' intentions of building this development.

[facilities man]

I'm curious to see how it turns out. I wonder if the 414 extension/Apopka bypass had anything to do with the developers' intentions of building this development.

Good point! They've both been on the drawing board for a while. The 414 extension is supposed to open late 2009. I would guess this building would be ready early 2010.

The 414 extension to the greeneway makes Maitland center an easy 25 - 30 minute cummute from North Lake County / Mount Dora area.

[JRS1]

Lists. With the advent of Village at Lake Lilly, here is the list of town-centerish places in CFLA:

1. Maitland- Village at Lake Lilly

2. Altamonte- Uptown/Crane's Roost

3. Baldwin Park

4. College Park- mixed use condo (Wellesley)

5. Metrowest- Verandah Park

6. Winter Park... Park Ave downtown & WP Village

7. Heathrow- Colonial Towne Park

8. Kissimmee- downtown

9. Sanford- downtown

10. Winter Springs- town center

11. Dr. Phillips-- SLR?

12. Hunter's Creek- the Fountains or Towers at H/C

13. Waterford- WLTC

14. St. Cloud- downtown

15. Celebration- downtown Celebration

16. Winter Garden- downtown WG north of 50

17. I-Drive: ? not sure where it would be

why do I bother with this or any list? b/c I'm trying to take my mind off of the Sunrail debacle.

[lala67]

I think you can add SODO to the list?

[JRS1]

I think you can add SODO to the list?

and it was the most apparent one of them all too...

[mgsports]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/traffi...2592953.graphic it has opened today so it would help out with future development.

[cwetteland]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/traffi...2592953.graphic it has opened today so it would help out with future development.

I'd say that's a negative. The opening is good because traffic going through Apopka is horrendous. But the last thing we need in that area is development. It's called sprawl.

Remember this is Urban Planet, not Suburban Planet.

Edited May 18, 2009 by cwetteland

[JRS1]

^^

I say it's all about access. When they extended Hiawassee north to Piedmont-Wekiva Rd., that was huge, b/c you didn't have to rely on 441 anymore. Then, the 429 opened. Now, 414 is extending out to 429, which is huge for the bypass issue. There already is development out there, just like when they extended 414 from Forrest City Rd. to 441, there was already development along Rose and Bear Lk. etc...

this will be huge in getting traffic off of 441 in Apopka, and it will put more cars and trucks on the toll road and bring in revenue... this makes total sense for NW Orange. it is so perfect. now, you have a complete road from 429/441 past Apopka coming in all the way to I-4 and 17/92. 414 has now been fully realized. too bad it couldn't go all the way to 436.

[prahaboheme]

^Wrong -- the further you develop access roads the further sprawl moves outward. This is bad in pretty much every way possible. How is the revenue generated from this going to benefit anyone but the body that receives it?

[lala67]

^^

I say it's all about access. When they extended Hiawassee north to Piedmont-Wekiva Rd., that was huge, b/c you didn't have to rely on 441 anymore. Then, the 429 opened. Now, 414 is extending out to 429, which is huge for the bypass issue. There already is development out there, just like when they extended 414 from Forrest City Rd. to 441, there was already development along Rose and Bear Lk. etc...

Chicken and egg kind of thing. The development likely occurred b/c there was going to be capacity built. If roads are within year 3 of the 5 yr work program, development can be built in anticipation of the road being built/widened/"improved".

within 10 yrs those new roads will likely be over capacity and people will beotch about congestion.

[frankieb96]

haven't skimmed this thread thoroughly, but does anyone know what's up with "shops on park" on park ave? i actually was able to walk thru it today since it was opened(by accident?). looks VERY nice with koi ponds(with koi in them already) and a faux banyan tree. . .i'm hoping they get some nice restaurants and retail in there to bring some life to the rest of park ave. hopefully it doesn't bomb, though it seems like they finished up gutting the whole place and renovating it quickly for new tenants.

i got some phone pics

[JRS1]

^^

if nobody wants sprawl, then have the State or Fed buy up the land and make it a conservation area, or have the County zone it so it can't be developed.

But the answer is not having a metro with backwards-ass roads (forgive my french). 436 was widened all the way to the 441 intersection, which later became an interchange, which is light years ahead of where it was 10 years ago (in Apopka). 441 hasn't been touched in 40+ years from Apopka down to 50. That needs to be widened and/or improved with better sewer/sidewalk/ traffic signaling. That being said, 414 has to be extended to 429, which it is/was. 429 has to hook up to local roads more often to make sense; it can't just be a 441 south to Tampa shortcut; Disney even built Western Way to give another access point to their property.

So now, 429 connects 441, 414, back road to Silver Star in WG, 408, 50, Western Way, 192, and I-4, as the major cross streets/highways. It's about access and transportation. You can't justify stifling transportation networks just b/c you want to avoid sprawl.

I don't agree with that age old argument of keeping roads narrow to curtail new traffic, and that's coming from someone with an MAURP. If we would've done that with I-4 at the St. John's River, I-d hate to think back to driving into Orlando from Volusia on a 2 lane highway, a narrow shoulder-less bridge, and 2 lanes all the way to 434 exit in Longwood. THat's a reality I don't want to be in. I say built the roads that need to be built and fix the roads that need to be fixed; but don't neglect roads and new road corridors b/c you want to curtail new traffic and development. that's crazy.

[VistaLakes01]

I don't see Avalon Park, Fowler Groves at Winter Garden, SODO, Mt. Dora, The Villages Town Center, or The Loop. Could possibly include Downtown Deland and what is the name of that huge place at I-4 AND US 27?

1. Maitland- Village at Lake Lilly

2. Altamonte- Uptown/Crane's Roost

3. Baldwin Park

4. College Park- mixed use condo (Wellesley)

5. Metrowest- Verandah Park

6. Winter Park... Park Ave downtown & WP Village

7. Heathrow- Colonial Towne Park

8. Kissimmee- downtown

9. Sanford- downtown

10. Winter Springs- town center

11. Dr. Phillips-- SLR?

12. Hunter's Creek- the Fountains or Towers at H/C

13. Waterford- WLTC

14. St. Cloud- downtown

15. Celebration- downtown Celebration

16. Winter Garden- downtown WG north of 50

17. I-Drive: ? not sure where it would be

why do I bother with this or any list? b/c I'm trying to take my mind off of the Sunrail debacle.

[cwetteland]

^^

if nobody wants sprawl, then have the State or Fed buy up the land and make it a conservation area, or have the County zone it so it can't be developed.

"Nobody" wants sprawl. Money is another story. There are enough people with enough money who don't give a crap about sprawl as long as there is more money to be made. I think most here on UP would love to "have" them buy up the land. We'd love to "have" the County zone it for no development. Is there a secret to "having" them do that? It's no secret; it's money and the developers "have" it.

Votes come from ads. Ads come from money. Money comes from development. The politician with the most developers in his pocket gets the most votes.

It's nonsense to think that we have sprawl because people want it.