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SunRail followed the railroad tracks where they already existed. Because the existence of SunRail was never about the passengers but all about the deal for CSX, the latter drove it.

The failing was more on the part of the state (with the possible exception of Maitland) than with the cities.

 

 

Edited by spenser1058
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It is also local planning. In a modern major city, the development plans will be flowing and most of the time consist of multiple highrises residential area around the train station in conjunction with the construction of the rail line.

In metro Orlando, the build the train then start to create plan two years down the road, then let it sits.

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On 4/29/2018 at 9:42 AM, spenser1058 said:

SunRail followed the railroad tracks where they already existed. Because the existence of SunRail was never about the passengers but all about the deal for CSX, the latter drove it.

The failing was more on the part of the state (with the possible exception of Maitland) than with the cities.

I thought everybody knew that.

Not enough state tax revenue forthcoming to build an entire new system from the ground up, so Mica proposed what we eventually got as an affordable compromise solution.

It's a start and better than nothing. 

47 minutes ago, sunshine said:

It is also local planning. In a modern major city, the development plans will be flowing and most of the time consist of multiple highrises residential area around the train station in conjunction with the construction of the rail line.

In metro Orlando, the build the train then start to create plan two years down the road, then let it sits.

Maitland and DeLand should've planned better by locating their downtowns closer to the railroad tracks.

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44 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

I thought everybody knew that.

Not enough state tax revenue forthcoming to build an entire new system from the ground up, so Mica proposed what we eventually got as an affordable compromise solution.

It's a start and better than nothing. 

Maitland and DeLand should've planned better by locating their downtowns closer to the railroad tracks.

Maitland didn't have a DT. They just started building one and not having a stop directly adjacent to Sun Rail is a HUGH failure imho.

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Regarding Deland, we can't forget that at one point Volusia County was looking to expand SunRail to Daytona Beach via new tracks along I-4. That route actually makes a lot more sense to me than the current Amtrak in BFE plan or the downtown plan many on here wish for. A new rail line through downtown Deland seems like it would be crazy expensive with ROWs but an I-4 route could use the Park and Ride stations already being used at many of the Volusia County exits. 

I think connecting to Daytona Beach in the area near the Speedway would be a much bigger win than connecting directly to downtown Deland. 

 

Edited by klstorey
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11 minutes ago, orlandouprise said:

Maitland didn't have a DT. They just started building one and not having a stop directly adjacent to Sun Rail is a HUGH failure imho.

That's not exactly right. Downtown Maitland is just across the railroad tracks along Maitland Ave. (There's an old bank there which is about a century old, assuming the Grumpy Old Men haven't demolished it.

What is correct is that the small downtown (much more like Ocoee's than Winter Garden or Winter Park's size wise) was totally eclipsed by US 17-92 when it came through.

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36 minutes ago, orlandouprise said:

Maitland didn't have a DT. They just started building one and not having a stop directly adjacent to Sun Rail is a HUGH failure imho.

Well, it's always easy and fun to speak in terms of coulda-shoulda-woulda with these kinds of things, but in the end it always comes down to the question of who is going to pay for it. As I'm sure you know, something like that would cost "HUGH" (;)) sums of money.  Not a lot of taxpayers are too keen on the idea of seeing their taxes go up just so their new "downtown" could have a commuter rail stop just a few feet away. 

Especially not this "Hugh" guy, whoever he is. :P (j/k)

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1 hour ago, klstorey said:

Regarding Deland, we can't forget that at one point Volusia County was looking to expand SunRail to Daytona Beach via new tracks along I-4. That route actually makes a lot more sense to me than the current Amtrak in BFE plan or the downtown plan many on here wish for. A new rail line through downtown Deland seems like it would be crazy expensive with ROWs but an I-4 route could use the Park and Ride stations already being used at many of the Volusia County exits. 

I think connecting to Daytona Beach in the area near the Speedway would be a much bigger win than connecting directly to downtown Deland. 

 

I've talked to several people about this and it would be amazing if it ever happens.  It is a strong and solid idea, but like so many things is lost in the ether at the moment.  I hope someone eventually pulls it back to the table.

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First, let me say that I'm open to the idea (although I want it to go to NSB - I'm selfish!)

Having said that, I see a couple of challenges. If SunRail is in fact COMMUTER rail, I think there are more commuters to Orlando from (Delightful!) DeLand than from Daytona (despite the airport.) I posted a piece from the N-J on the Volusia thread a couple of weeks back about the uptick of West County folks working in Orlando and the effect on real estate sales.

Now for the Orange City and DeBary folks who tend to vote Republican, using SunRail is something they'll do only if crossing the bridge every day is truly obnoxious and it saves them lots of money.

DeLand, otoh, is more likely to embrace the idea of SunRail because of all us uber-liberal granola-crunching types. DeLand has the liberal arts college (they even divorced themselves from the Baptists along the way) and the left-leaning government types since DeLand is the county seat. So, apart from practicality, using transit more closely fits their worldview. (Yes, all sorts of studies have been done as to why blue folks are more pro-transit than their red brethren. Further, the GOP went so far as to include an anti-transit plank in their platform. It's a stereotype with grounding behind it.)

Then, we have Daytona. Given that nothing happens there without the OK of the France family, and since their ideas for development and how to run the city have pretty consistently been stuck in the '50's, I can't imagine them having much interest.

I'd love to be proved wrong but I've been interested in Volusia County development since I was not much more than a kid and things have been pretty consistent over there.

 

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7 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Well, it's always easy and fun to speak in terms of coulda-shoulda-woulda with these kinds of things, but in the end it always comes down to the question of who is going to pay for it. As I'm sure you know, something like that would cost "HUGH" (;)) sums of money.  Not a lot of taxpayers are too keen on the idea of seeing their taxes go up just so their new "downtown" could have a commuter rail stop just a few feet away. 

Especially not this "Hugh" guy, whoever he is. :P (j/k)

Who is this" HUGH" fellow ? :rofl:  woops!

Question:  If SunRail follows I-4, could we see a stop at Millenia in the near future?

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It's only been a hardlines only Sears for years now too.  The lower floor was closed off from the rest of the store where all the softlines used to be.  I've been in Oviedo, Altamonte, and Florida Mall recently, to try to exchange tools, and I'm shocked that they're even open.  The tool depts have no merchandise.  Bare walls and its like they're not restocking.  They're preparing to kill the whole chain.

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6 hours ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

Wasn’t Tavares also slated or being considered for a train station with the Orange Blossom Express?

Yes, but that is completely dead with the Democrats taking over the seat of John Mica, elections matter, and voting for the Republican who supported trains was the only chance for it, and the people for the anti-transit Democrat.

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