Population ITP?

[Unifour]

Yes, I have no problem with talking about the urban core. However, the area inside the perimeter includes lots of areas that aren't inside the city of Atlanta (Sandy Springs, parts of Roswell, Vinings, College Park, Hapeville, and a large portion of DeKalb county are also inside the perimeter. Most of the city's population lives outside the perimeter though. Cobb is mostly outside the beltway, so is most of DeKalb and Clayton. Gwinnett is entirely outside of it. Yet Gwinnett is about 55% urban/suburban. A lot of Fulton's population is outside the 285. It is true that almost half of Georgia's population is in the metro area, it's still concentrated in the large amount of urbanized land around the city. It isn't spread out all over the state.

Georgia pop. is now at 8,700,000, Atlanta metro is at 4,700,000, Atlanta CSA is said to be over 5,000,000. These numbers are skyrocketing, so they are outdated as soon as you type them.

[Spartan]

The City of Atlanta is meaningless. Particularly to this topic. What exactly are you trying to say?

[atlrvr]

But this tells me how many of my homies I can hit up with a little 404 action.

[teshadoh]

Yes, I have no problem with talking about the urban core. However, the area inside the perimeter includes lots of areas that aren't inside the city of Atlanta (Sandy Springs, parts of Roswell, Vinings, College Park, Hapeville, and a large portion of DeKalb county are also inside the perimeter. Most of the city's population lives outside the perimeter though. Cobb is mostly outside the beltway, so is most of DeKalb and Clayton. Gwinnett is entirely outside of it. Yet Gwinnett is about 55% urban/suburban. A lot of Fulton's population is outside the 285. It is true that almost half of Georgia's population is in the metro area, it's still concentrated in the large amount of urbanized land around the city. It isn't spread out all over the state.

Georgia pop. is now at 8,700,000, Atlanta metro is at 4,700,000, Atlanta CSA is said to be over 5,000,000. These numbers are skyrocketing, so they are outdated as soon as you type them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not going to be that big of an asshole - but being a Geography major & a GIS Analyst, I want to help you out a little:

Roswell is far outside of the Perimieter, about half of Dekalb is in the Perimeter, Gwinnett is probably 75% suburban, & maybe .01% urban depending on what street corner you are standing in Lawrenceville.

[Unifour]

I'm not going to be that big of an asshole - but being a Geography major & a GIS Analyst, I want to help you out a little:

Roswell is far outside of the Perimieter, about half of Dekalb is in the Perimeter, Gwinnett is probably 75% suburban, & maybe .01% urban depending on what street corner you are standing in Lawrenceville.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then don't be one. And I don't need your help. I know exactly what I'm talking about, thanks. (I had GIS too in college) LOL

First, I never said Roswell was INSIDE the perimeter. And DeKalb looks like maybe a 60/40 split inside and outside to me on my map here. Gwinnett is mostly suburban, but I meant 55% developed. Probably more now. And what I am trying to say is that using an arbitrary boundary like a roadway to try to use doesn't make too much sense when the metropolis doesn't stop at the roadway. The census bureau defines the core metro counties as Fulton, Clayton, Cobb, DeKalb, and Gwinnett. Thats the "complex" where most of them live. I didn't wanna start some kind of argument, so I'll exit stage right...

[atlrvr]

I don't think that anyone here sees 285 as a true border of any sort, but rather a mental border that many people have when deciding what is "Atlanta", and what is the 'burbs.

For people who live in Alpharetta, going inside the Perimter is "going down to Atlanta", and when I lived in Midtown, going outside 285, was going out to the 'burbs for some god-forsaken reason.

[Spartan]

I think that is the best description. It doesn't matter so much what the census says. County boundaries are political, and do not necessarily reflect people's perception of place. The Perimeter seems as logical a boundary as any.

[monsoon]

I don't think that anyone here sees 285 as a true border of any sort, but rather a mental border that many people have when deciding what is "Atlanta", and what is the 'burbs.

For people who live in Alpharetta, going inside the Perimter is "going down to Atlanta", and when I lived in Midtown, going outside 285, was going out to the 'burbs for some god-forsaken reason.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is wrong with this picture? i.e. The "mentality" of "what is Atlanta" is defined by a suburban loop highway these days.

[teshadoh]

Then don't be one. And I don't need your help. I know exactly what I'm talking about, thanks. (I had GIS too in college) LOL

First, I never said Roswell was INSIDE the perimeter. And DeKalb looks like maybe a 60/40 split inside and outside to me on my map here. Gwinnett is mostly suburban, but I meant 55% developed. Probably more now. And what I am trying to say is that using an arbitrary boundary like a roadway to try to use doesn't make too much sense when the metropolis doesn't stop at the roadway. The census bureau defines the core metro counties as Fulton, Clayton, Cobb, DeKalb, and Gwinnett. Thats the "complex" where most of them live. I didn't wanna start some kind of argument, so I'll exit stage right...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, I did say I didn't want to be an ass - so I must have simply misunderstood. Smiley face damn it!

[teshadoh]

What is wrong with this picture?  i.e.  The "mentality" of "what is Atlanta" is defined by a suburban loop highway these days.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Living in an urban / suburban mass that stretches well beyon imagination - limits have to be set. Charlotte is an identifiable city due to it's current developed seperation from it's sattellite cities, but suggesting that 'you are entering Atlanta' some 50 miles outside the city core isn't too reasonable, no? Most likely, in the coming decades as development fills in - Charlotte's loop will be a mental understanding of 'where the city is'. For these cities, without a recognizable political boundary (as DC's) or natural features (such as San Francisco), the understanding of 'the city' is very much abstract.

Anyways - just my take on it...

[Hybrid0NE]

bump

[Lady Celeste]

Well I would say that if 770,000 people live within the perimeter then that's not so bad. That's almost like one in ten Georgians live inside the perimeter. When you think of it like that then Atlanta is not so small after all. There are people moving into the perimeter daily. In-Fill has become a concern because people are sticking more and more houses on smaller lots. It's not just about McMansions, people inside the perimeter are also dealing with developers who come in, buy three houses that may have been on six acres and plopping down 20 townhomes.

The inner Perimeter is becoming more and more dense. There are some areas inside the perimeter that will never be dense....i.e., the Mount Paran, South Sandy Springs and Tuxedo districts. That means that while the northeastern portion of the inner perimeter will remain sparsely developed, others will achieve a really high density. With the pending Beltline approval, more development inside the Perimeter is sure to follow.

It will be quite possible to have 1,000,000 people inside the Perimeter within 25 years. Dekalb County has experienced tons of growth inside the perimeter. The southern portions of innercity Atlanta are now experiencing growth. We only need 270,000 more people to move into the Perimeter area to reach the 1 million target. At the rate people have been moving intown (that's what I call anything inside the Perimeter), it could reach 1 million well before 20 years.

[Andrea]

.... people inside the perimeter are also dealing with developers who come in, buy three houses that may have been on six acres and plopping down 20 townhomes.

Which may well be the most sensible use of the land. I'm not sure that in today's cities everyone needs or wants those two acre lots, especially if we're trying to foster sustainable, walkable, transit-oriented neighborhoods. My guess is that a lot of people have discovered that townhomes, instead of being a plague, are actually quite suitable to their lifestyle and perhaps even preferable to the single house on a two acre lot.

[Lady Celeste]

Which may well be the most sensible use of the land. I'm not sure that in today's cities everyone needs or wants those two acre lots, especially if we're trying to foster sustainable, walkable, transit-oriented neighborhoods. My guess is that a lot of people have discovered that townhomes, instead of being a plague, are actually quite suitable to their lifestyle and perhaps even preferable to the single house on a two acre lot.

I personally agree with your quote about a more sensible land usage however the average person living in Chamblee for 10+ years may or may not view it that way. Unfortunately or fortunately...depending on your taste, it will continue to occur in some parts of the inner Perimeter. Some parts of the inner Perimeter are becoming more dense and other parts are becoming less dense or maintaining their low density. I would agree with you however that there are areas....especially those in close proximity to public transportation... that are more suitable for denser development.

[Martinman]

Speaking of ITP population...

could this possibly be accurate

"The impact of having some of the worst traffic in the nation, combined with an increase in urban amenities, have led people to move into the Atlanta city limits at levels not seen for decades.

Over the past 12 months, an increase of 25,626 new residents, combined with lower than average deliveries of new product, have resulted in the city's overall vacancy rate to improve to 8.4% at mid-year 2005 from 9.6% at the same time last year."

Heres the article it came from

[ironchapman]

Speaking of ITP population...

could this possibly be accurate

"The impact of having some of the worst traffic in the nation, combined with an increase in urban amenities, have led people to move into the Atlanta city limits at levels not seen for decades.

Over the past 12 months, an increase of 25,626 new residents, combined with lower than average deliveries of new product, have resulted in the city's overall vacancy rate to improve to 8.4% at mid-year 2005 from 9.6% at the same time last year."

Heres the article it came from

I don't know, but I'm certainly hoping it is.

Of course, the article brings up good reasons for the influx (traffic gets worse, increased urban amenities, etc.).

[Lady Celeste]

Speaking of ITP population...

could this possibly be accurate

"The impact of having some of the worst traffic in the nation, combined with an increase in urban amenities, have led people to move into the Atlanta city limits at levels not seen for decades.

Over the past 12 months, an increase of 25,626 new residents, combined with lower than average deliveries of new product, have resulted in the city's overall vacancy rate to improve to 8.4% at mid-year 2005 from 9.6% at the same time last year."

Heres the article it came from

Well if this is in deed correct then make my prediction for 1,000,000 less than 10 years away and not the "within 20 years" that I earlier said.

[Andrea]

I knew Altanta was a very low density area but I did not realize it was literally the least densely populated city. So it looks like we've got plenty of room for growth!

"Metropolitan Atlanta is the least densely populated metropolitan area in the United States, with only 1,370 persons per square mile, compared with 5,400 persons per square mile in Los Angeles."

From the article on http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/nge/Article.jsp?id=h-763]Urban Sprawl in the New Georgia Encyclopedia.

[ironchapman]

I knew Altanta was a very low density area but I did not realize it was literally the least densely populated city. So it looks like we've got plenty of room for growth!

"Metropolitan Atlanta is the least densely populated metropolitan area in the United States, with only 1,370 persons per square mile, compared with 5,400 persons per square mile in Los Angeles."

From the article on Urban Sprawl in the New Georgia Encyclopedia.

True.

However, LA is also one of the densest Metros and urban areas, just figured I'd toss that out.

[Martinman]

I knew Altanta was a very low density area but I did not realize it was literally the least densely populated city. So it looks like we've got plenty of room for growth!

"Metropolitan Atlanta is the least densely populated metropolitan area in the United States, with only 1,370 persons per square mile, compared with 5,400 persons per square mile in Los Angeles."

From the article on http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/nge/Article.jsp?id=h-763]Urban Sprawl in the New Georgia Encyclopedia.

I believe that stat is for the "urbanized area" which of course includes a lot of suburban mass that is anything but urban.

[Spartan]

Urbanized area, with regards to the census, is any contiguous area that has a population of 50,000 people or greater and a density of 1000 people per square mile.

[teshadoh]

^ 1000 psm as the base, but it expands to only 500 psm - so it is pretty broad.

[TheBostonian]

Urbanized area, with regards to the census, is any contiguous area that has a population of 50,000 people or greater and a density of 1000 people per square mile.

I've never been somewhere with 1000 people per sq mile that feels urban. That doesn't even sound suburban. The census definition and my sense of urban are quite different.

[teshadoh]

TheBos - it's just the Census designation to described the developed area surroundin a city. The basis is of course urban cores with population density of 1k per square mile & that extends to 500 psm that comprises 50k people. Not 'urban' in our understanding - which isn't experienced until at least 5k or 10k per square mile, which excludes most inner-city areas in the south.

[alexr15]

Speaking of ITP population...

could this possibly be accurate

"The impact of having some of the worst traffic in the nation, combined with an increase in urban amenities, have led people to move into the Atlanta city limits at levels not seen for decades.

Over the past 12 months, an increase of 25,626 new residents, combined with lower than average deliveries of new product, have resulted in the city's overall vacancy rate to improve to 8.4% at mid-year 2005 from 9.6% at the same time last year."

Heres the article it came from

So did Atlanta really add over 25,000 people? That's pretty amazing if it's true.