Atlanta's Regional Rail and Transit Systems.

[WSUSOM]

just think how much further down the toilet Georgia would be if Barnes were still govenor. That's right, he was a terrible govenor!

By what standards Mr. Nashville, just curious about your statement?

[Spartan]

Ok, I was wondering how it was possible for them to make a proffit. There is an increase of revenue from sales taxes, so they are reciving more money. Ridership is up too though, which is good (and helps). Riders alone do not pay for any transit system anywhere in the world (except for one in Hong Kong).

[ironchapman]

Ok, I was wondering how it was possible for them to make a proffit. There is an increase of revenue from sales taxes, so they are reciving more money. Ridership is up too though, which is good (and helps). Riders alone do not pay for any transit system anywhere in the world (except for one in Hong Kong).

MARTA made a profit, I read, because it dipped into its rainy day funds.

Anybody care to verify this (I'll try to myself as well).

EDIT: Done, see this article

The system balanced the budget during those years by dipping into its reserve fund. The deficits also came despite substantial budget cuts, including a reduction in train and bus service, layoffs and an early retirement plan.

Edited August 2, 2006 by ironchapman

[Martinman]

MARTA made a profit, I read, because it dipped into its rainy day funds.

Anybody care to verify this (I'll try to myself as well).

EDIT: Done, see this article

No. You're misreading it. They're saying that Marta dipped into the reserve funds between 1998 and 2005 when the system was operating at a deficit.

It's a remarkable change for MARTA, which lost a cumulative $59 million between 1998 and 2005 on its operations side, including $21 million in 2003.

The system balanced the budget during those years by dipping into its reserve fund.

[Andrea]

There's a really interesting article on the Atlanta-Athens commuter rail line in today's Daily Report. Unfortunately it's subscription only but here are the highlights.

Heavy hitters such as Emory University and the University of Georgia, and real estate developers such as Duke Realty and Morsberger Group, are pushing hard to set up a commuter rail line which would run from a downtown Atlanta MM station, up through Atlantic Station, and on out to Emory, Northlake, Tucker, Lilburn, Lawrenceville and Winder, ultimately ending up in Athens new MM station. The project is referred to as the Brain Train.

http://www.georgiabraintrain.com/maps.pdf

Rail advocates say Atlanta is falling behind other southern cities such as Nashville and Austin, which are already building rail lines out to the burbs. They believe Atlanta will lose economic development opportunities to these cities if it doesn't implement commuter rail. They also point out that commuter rail is extremely hot out west and in the northeast, with many major projects underway.

However, they say this will be an uphill battle in Georgia because the governor, the DOT and other state officials are uninterested, if not openly hostile, to commuter rail. They prefer to spend the money on roads. The article aslo says CSX has little interest in such a project and will likely oppose it or drive a very hard financial deal.

http://www.apta.com/research/stats/rail/crservuse.cfm

Edited August 11, 2006 by Andrea

[adelosky]

There's a really interesting article on the Atlanta-Athens commuter rail line in today's Daily Report. Unfortunately it's subscription only but here are the highlights.

Heavy hitters such as Emory University and the University of Georgia, and real estate developers such as Duke Realty and Morsberger Group, are pushing hard to set up a commuter rail line which would run from a downtown Atlanta MM station, up through Atlantic Station, and on out to Emory, Northlake, Tucker, Lilburn, Lawrenceville and Winder, ultimately ending up in Athens new MM station. The project is referred to as the Brain Train.

http://www.georgiabraintrain.com/maps.pdf

Rail advocates say Atlanta is falling behind other southern cities such as Nashville and Austin, which are already building rail lines out to the burbs. They believe Atlanta will lose economic development opportunities to these cities if it doesn't implement commuter rail. They also point out that commuter rail is extremely hot out west and in the northeast, with many major projects underway.

However, they say this will be an uphill battle in Georgia because the governor, the DOT and other state officials are uninterested, if not openly hostile, to commuter rail. They prefer to spend the money on roads. The article aslo says CSX has little interest in such a project and will likely oppose it or drive a very hard financial deal.

http://www.apta.com/research/stats/rail/crservuse.cfm

I just get so frustrated when I read articles like this and the one I read - and posted under the Beltline - about MARTA looking into changing the Beltline from rail to buses. This shows the short-sighted, un-intellectual thinking the Atlanta government has had in regards to transportation since the 40's. They want to build more roads, yet we loose funding from the Federal government because our air isn't clean enough. They say that it's an uphill battle to build the brain train, yet they don't ask the communtities it will affect the most. I live on the border of Stone Mountain and Tucker. Tucker would thrive with a commuter train running directly over main street and I would have a viable commuter option to make it to work in Buckhead with this, the Beltline, MARTA, and the streetcar initiative (www.atlantastreetcar.com).

And I quote from the Brain Train website, "the large majority of the dollars for capital expenditures (such as additional track, road-crossing improvements, trains, etc.) will be coming from the federal government". It's just lazy government when they complain that it will be too expensive.

[Andrea]

This shows the short-sighted, un-intellectual thinking the Atlanta government has had in regards to transportation since the 40's. They want to build more roads, yet we loose funding from the Federal government because our air isn't clean enough.

I hear you, adelosky. However, the problem may be more at the state than at the city level. Atlanta has always been Georgia's red-headed stepchild, and low on the list of priorities.

[adelosky]

I hear you, adelosky. However, the problem may be more at the state than at the city level. Atlanta has always been Georgia's red-headed stepchild, and low on the list of priorities.

Yeah, but the other local governments need to get over their city envy. With talks of the brain train running to Athens and Macon, the state of Georgia has a really good opportunity to allow light rail and commuter trains to other key industrial and ecomonic cities throughout the state - Valdosta, Savannah, Brunswick, Columbus, Augusta, etc...

My grandmother lives in Augusta and I'd rather not have to drive there. I used to go to college in Statesboro and would love to sit in a train instead of drive through rural Georgia for 3 hours.

It's just a shame and frustrating and I should've learned by now not to get my hopes up but they keep suckering me in.

[ryanmckibben]

That article hits the nail on the head. If Georgia doesn't wise up and realize that roads alone won't cut it. Atlanta WILL loose it's cempetitive edge. One of Atlanta's advantages has been it's low cost of living. With energy prices rising, almost by the minute, the cost of operating that car will get more and more expensive, eroding our cost of living advantage. But then again what do you expect of a state with a gov named "Sonny"?????

[Andrea]

That article hits the nail on the head. If Georgia doesn't wise up and realize that roads alone won't cut it. Atlanta WILL loose it's cempetitive edge. One of Atlanta's advantages has been it's low cost of living. With energy prices rising, almost by the minute, the cost of operating that car will get more and more expensive, eroding our cost of living advantage.

The situation here sometimes makes me want to throw up my hands and move away, Ryan. Yet the fact that Atlanta has managed to thrive despite all the obstacles thrown in its way is a testament to the will of the city's residents, who simply refuse to give up.

If we're going to make it, people are simply going to have to move back into the city in large numbers. That's going to require an ongoing committment to transportation, schools, water, and quality of life issues. We've been getting the shaft for decades -- I sure would like to see things turn around.

[johnatl]

Amen, Andrea - and Ryan too, for posting parts of that article. I am becoming more and more radical concerning politics around here because of the do-nothing-but-pave-over-Georgia mentality of Sonny-Bubba and the whole gang down at the Capitol. I mean, when a little 800,000 metro like Albuquerque can get a commuter rail system off the ground, how do you think that makes us look? It used to just amuse me, but these idiots are now playing with our very future, and it more than sickens me - it's really starting to seriously PISS ME OFF!

[macdaddy]

I agree. We simply must elect officials who make smart policy, instead of practicing the politics of expediancy and divisiveness.

[Andrea]

Yikes, Maria Saporta's column about the GRTA bus plan for the Arts Center Station sounds pretty scary!

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/busine...metsaporta.html

GRTA and the Atlanta Regional Commission also have pushed a proposal to use bus rapid transit rather than light rail on the northwest corridor from the central city to Cobb County.

Again, Atlanta fought passionately for a light rail solution rather than express buses.

Light rail would have had multiple stops inside the city limits bringing transit to communities all along the route. But, as proposed, the Northwest bus plan isn't designed to serve city residents because there will be no stops between Cobb County and the final Atlanta destination.

Now the plan is to dump all those express buses, along with several other bus services, at the Arts Center MARTA station, a community that's been enjoying phenomenal growth with an emphasis on pedestrians rather than motor vehicles.

GRTA anticipates that up to 90 buses an hour will use the Arts Center station — which translates to 180 comings and goings an hour — or three buses a minute.

Edited August 21, 2006 by Andrea

[teshadoh]

Not to mention much of the delay for CCT is the period of time from the MARTA station to the freeway. But GRTA hasn't been a good partner with ARC, MARTA or the City of Atlanta - typically ignoring any proposals. Including an existing plan that has been agreed upon that would manage bus routing through Midtown & DOwntown.

[Hybrid0NE]

Light rail would have had multiple stops inside the city limits bringing transit to communities all along the route. But, as proposed, the Northwest bus plan isn't designed to serve city residents because there will be no stops between Cobb County and the final Atlanta destination.

No stops in Atlanta? I thought the R stood for Regional? This really sounds like planning that will be effective for the entire metropolitan area. I still dislike the use of busses for the transit line. I'd continue to drive to the Perimeter or Lindbergh area MARTA stations and take the train Down/Midtown than be stuck on a bus in 75 traffic.

[teshadoh]

No stops in Atlanta? I thought the R stood for Regional? This really sounds like planning that will be effective for the entire metropolitan area. I still dislike the use of busses for the transit line. I'd continue to drive to the Perimeter or Lindbergh area MARTA stations and take the train Down/Midtown than be stuck on a bus in 75 traffic.

BRT would have it's own lane if it will truly be built as BRT.

[Andrea]

BRT would have it's own lane if it will truly be built as BRT.

Even so, it still seems like the model they're using is basically to ferry people from one distant location to another. This is one area where I think light rail has a distinct advantage -- a train line could have several stops along the way, which would foster TOD and the interaction of people and commerce all along the line.

I could easily visualize stops along a Northwest line at say, Marietta Boulevard, Collier/Defoors, Howell Mill, Vinings, Smyrna, Galleria, Mayretta, etc. I'm sure there are other and better places as well, but it would be terrific to weave that sound of town together.

ETA: Look at what they've done in Philadelphia/Camden, for instance. I love that system, especially the Speed Line.

Edited August 21, 2006 by Andrea

[SAV]

I wish they would just build a freakin regional rail and quit beatin around the bush. We are already 30 years behind.

[teshadoh]

^ Unfortunately a big part of the problem is the metro population is 30 years ahead of what anyone expected. Metro leaders & especially the state have yet to take the responsibility of a 5+ million metro.

[Andrea]

^ Unfortunately a big part of the problem is the metro population is 30 years ahead of what anyone expected. Metro leaders & especially the state have yet to take the responsibility of a 5+ million metro.

Very true.

If we really wanted to get things done, Charles Bannister, Karen Handel, Eldrin Bell, Shirley Franklin, Vernon Jordan and Sam Olens should ban the issuance of all further building permits until everyone agreed on a viable regional transportation plan. Now that would be a useful moratorium!!

[Hybrid0NE]

If we really wanted to get things done, Charles Bannister, Karen Handel, Eldrin Bell, Shirley Franklin, Vernon Jordan and Sam Olens should ban the issuance of all further building permits until everyone agreed on a viable regional transportation plan.

*Slaps your hand* Bad Andrea! *Slaps hand again* Bad. How do you expect me to get an amazing deal on a pratically new Midtown condo if they don't oversaturate the market. Now, go stand in time-out (Cleburne County, Alabama).

just kidding...

[Andrea]

Cleburne County.

Edited August 22, 2006 by Andrea

[Martinman]

^ Unfortunately a big part of the problem is the metro population is 30 years ahead of what anyone expected. Metro leaders & especially the state have yet to take the responsibility of a 5+ million metro.

I think this is so true. State "leaders" are acting as though this is still Atlanta in 1980 with about 2 million people, still eagerly building roads whereever they can.... still expanding sprawl to the next once rural community. How many times do we have to read this same freakin story in the AJC!

[ryanmckibben]

^I agree, everytime the AJC does an article about Atlanta's growth or transportation, it's like deja vu all over again.

[Martinman]

CoStar had a short interview the Emory Morsberger (here), the Gwinnett developer pushing for the state to build the "Brain Train" from Athens to Downtown.

Here's the part concerning the commuter rail

APN: What has to happen to get the Brain Train (commuter rail linking Athens to downtown Atlanta, with stops at each university and the CDC along the way) up and running, and where are we in that process?

Morsberger: Money and political support.

We

Edited August 24, 2006 by Martinman