Atlanta's Regional Rail and Transit Systems.

[teshadoh]

^ It's true, MARTA did indeed build a subway cut north of Arts Center, which you can see when you go northbound before it cross I-85. The initial plan, which was current until the early 90's was for one stop at Peachtree St in southern Buckhead called 'Brookwood'.

alas

[Andrea]

^ It's true, MARTA did indeed build a subway cut north of Arts Center, which you can see when you go northbound before it cross I-85. The initial plan, which was current until the early 90's was for one stop at Peachtree St in southern Buckhead called 'Brookwood'.

Brad, do you know where the station was going to be in relation to the Brookwood Amtrak station? MARTA trains bypassed the Brookwood Hills/SoBuck area (with good reason, I think), but it would be perfect for a streetcar linking those neighborhoods with Midtown and Buckhead. It's one of my favorite parts of town.

[teshadoh]

Brad, do you know where the station was going to be in relation to the Brookwood Amtrak station? MARTA trains bypassed the Brookwood Hills/SoBuck area (with good reason, I think), but it would be perfect for a streetcar linking those neighborhoods with Midtown and Buckhead. It's one of my favorite parts of town.

I like the Garden Hills area too.

I'm not sure where the Brookwood station would have been, if you can find an old MARTA map, the proposed line was just a little peg branching off the north line north of Arts Center parrallel to I-75 to 'Brookwood'.

Of course you are aware of the Peachtree Streetcar company aren't you?

[ironchapman]

I like the Garden Hills area too.

I'm not sure where the Brookwood station would have been, if you can find an old MARTA map, the proposed line was just a little peg branching off the north line north of Arts Center parrallel to I-75 to 'Brookwood'.

Of course you are aware of the Peachtree Streetcar company aren't you?

Here's an old one:

^Any help?

[teshadoh]

^ Well, it's not the map I was thinking of - but it certainly shows the Cobb branch.

There you go...

[Andrea]

I like the Garden Hills area too.

I'm not sure where the Brookwood station would have been, if you can find an old MARTA map, the proposed line was just a little peg branching off the north line north of Arts Center parrallel to I-75 to 'Brookwood'.

Of course you are aware of the Peachtree Streetcar company aren't you?

Yes, I posted on the Streetcar several weeks ago. I really hope it goes soon, in that it seems to be a much less expensive and complex project than the Beltline. They certainly have a heavy-hitting board of directors.

I was actually not thinking of Garden Hills, which is a maybe a mile or two north, but Brookwood Hills (i.e., Palisades, Camden, etc)., just north of Brookwood Station.

I don't think the boundaries are exact, but I sort of mentally divide the Peachtree corridor as Midtown/Ansley at around Pershing Point, and then Brookwood/SoBuck up to about Bennett Street, and then Buckhead proper all the way up to Brookhaven.

[Andrea]

^Any help?

IC, yes, thanks. Obviously the map is a schematic, but it looks like the proposed NW6 station would be right at Brookwood Station.

So in effect we would have had a mini-Multimodal Terminal, with Amtrak/MARTA/I-75/85 connections, and with Downtown, Midtown, Buckhead and Emory all within a 4 mile radius! Atlantic Station would be within walking distance. But I guess that's all too easy.

[ironchapman]

I found a vent in the AJC this morning that I think sums up our feelings for transit in Atlanta nowadays:

Now that we have a world-class art museum and aquarium, can we have a world-class transit system?

Just figured I'd toss that out.

[ironchapman]

Well, at least we know that MARTA has a pretty good chance of surviving an attack by terrorists according to a drill it conducted yesterday on a bus in Midtown.In the drill, a "terrorist" on a motorcycle drove by a MARTA bus (a decommissioned and empty one) and threw a bomb on it. According to the people who conducted the drill, all went smoothly as planned, but it will be reviewed over the next few days to find out how successful or unsuccessful it actually was.

See More (AJC)

Edited November 14, 2005 by ironchapman

[Andrea]

I found a vent in the AJC this morning that I think sums up our feelings for transit in Atlanta nowadays:

Just figured I'd toss that out.

I honestly think we've got a lot of the infrastructure in place already. We're way ahead of the curve with MARTA, and we've certainly got freeways galore. We've got an abundance of pretty well-maintained surface streets which (at least in the intown areas, which I've come to accept as everything ITP) provide multiple and alternative linkages to nearly all neighborhoods and destinations. Projects such as the Beltline and the Atlanta Streetcar are also making strong strides toward reality.

Perhaps even more importantly, I think we're reaching critical mass in terms of population density and public will to make things happen.

[ironchapman]

I honestly think we've got a lot of the infrastructure in place already. We're way ahead of the curve with MARTA, and we've certainly got freeways galore. We've got an abundance of pretty well-maintained surface streets which (at least in the intown areas, which I've come to accept as everything ITP) provide multiple and alternative linkages to nearly all neighborhoods and destinations. Projects such as the Beltline and the Atlanta Streetcar are also making strong strides toward reality.

Perhaps even more importantly, I think we're reaching critical mass in terms of population density and public will to make things happen.

I think it was also referring to the overall reliability of MARTA. Also, it doesn't exactly have the best reputation these days (MARTA: Moving....).

I think it serves the areas it covers pretty well, though./

[ironchapman]

Some of you may have neard of the commutants: a group of writers for the AJC that decided to take alternate routes to work from the usual car filled highways.

Anyways, Tucker, who rode MARTA had some good and bad things to say about the system. It was on time, it apeared safe, and it got her where she needed to be in a timely manner. However, much as the title of the article said, MARTA does need more police and they need to be on the job and where they can easily be seen.

See Article (AJC)

[Andrea]

Anyways, Tucker, who rode MARTA had some good and bad things to say about the system. It was on time, it apeared safe, and it got her where she needed to be in a timely manner. However, much as the title of the article said, MARTA does need more police and they need to be on the job and where they can easily be seen.

The train is great, if you happen to be within a mile or so of a station at both ends of your journey and don't mind walking. I rode it to and from work most every day back in the early 80's and rarely had a problem.

The bus system is a lot more complex. When we lived in Virginia Highland it was easy enough to snag 16 Noble to downtown. I also liked 23 Peachtree when we lived in Buckhead -- that was a straight shot into downtown and the bus ran about every 10 minutes.

However, if your destination is off one of the beaten tracks or is out in the burbs, it's a big mess. Once I was getting my car fixed out off the Buford Highway and decided to get my driver's license renewed while I was waiting. First I went to the office next to the Capitol, but they were closed, so I went on over to Confederate Avenue. By the time I got back out to the Buford Highway I do believe I could have driven to St. Louis.

[ironchapman]

Has anyone even heard about Nathaniel Ford resigning his position as head of MARTA?

...Well, okay, perhaps most of you have heard about it, but I didn't see a topic on it.

Anyways, he's leaving MARTA for San Francisco's Municipal Rail system. He will be missed here He did a good job at helping MARTA get back on its feet.

See Article (AJC)

Of course, we need someone good to fill his shoes, especially in this vital time for transit in the city and the region. Let's hope the new leader can continue Ford's reversal of MARTA's bad luck.

See this AJC Article on it

Edited November 21, 2005 by ironchapman

[Andrea]

Let's hope the new leader can continue Ford's reversal of MARTA's bad luck.

I think MARTA has had more than bad luck. It looks to me like they've basically been hung out to dry by the state and much of the metro area.

[Andrea]

This is an interesting observation:

Much of the funding for the streetcar -- estimated at $335 million to build and $23 million a year to operate -- could be provided by businesses along the route, which already tax themselves to finance several community improvement districts. [Cousins CEO Tom]Bell said he does not feel the public should be asked to shoulder the bulk of the cost.

Mr. Bell, who is certainly in a position to know and to do something about it, makes it sound like he expects this project to be privately funded. If that's the case, I can see how it could get up and running pretty quickly.

[Mike D]

[url=http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/atlanta/1105/30metbeltline.html]

He has upped his offering to a corridor that averages 46 feet wide, though it narrows down to 32 feet where his consultants say a single-track transit line will do. GADOT wants a 65-foot corridor so Amtrak trains can run to the MMTC; the beltline committee wants 50 feet for double tracks, a trail, and green space.

With so many different groups making such different demands, someone really needs to step up and take charge to sort this thing out before the bickering gets out of control.

I'd go with GADOT on the width of the transit corridor. It should have room for at least two tracks. Having only one track will produce limited transit benefits. Plus, Amtrak needs to be run to the MMPT. Amtrak trains should stop downtown to make them a more useful option for getting to Atlanta.

Edited December 1, 2005 by Mike D

[orulz]

I'd go with GADOT on the width of the transit corridor. It should have room for at least two tracks. Having only one track will produce limited transit benefits. Plus, Amtrak needs to be run to the MMPT. Amtrak trains should stop downtown to make them a more useful option for getting to Atlanta.

The 50 foot corridor is wide enough for the trail and double-track LRT.

The only trains that would use this connection are ones that run THROUGH Atlanta from the northeast to the west, like the Amtrak Crescent. SEHSR trains to Atlanta can run to the MMPT without the Decatur Belt since they will either terminate and turn around at the MMPT, or continue southwards to Macon.

There are two alternatives for trains like the Crescent that don't involve the Decatur Belt:

1. Stop them at the current Amtrak station, on Peachtree just north of I-85.

2. Run them down to the MMPT, and then turn the train around at the wye there. This would add 10 or 15 minutes onto the schedule. That would be unacceptable for high-speed corridor trains, but it's perfectly fine for long-distance, overnight trains like the Crescent.

Commuter trains don't need the belt either, since that would prevent them from running through Atlantic Station.

I worry that putting a conventional railroad along the beltline would also hamper the urban environment. They want the beltline streetcar/LRT/BRT/whatever to run in close proximity to buildings and sidewalks, which facilitates a pedestrian friendly environment, but putting in a conventional railroad would prevent that - and just for the sake of a couple trains a day that are just passing through!

Edited December 1, 2005 by orulz

[Martinman]

In the ABC this week there is an article about Central Atlanta Progress seeking to raise 4-6 million$ to start a downtown trolley similar in appearance to the Tech trolley. The route would be the same route the downtown loop for the proposed streetcar, circling near most of the tourist attractions and the hotel district. The service could begin by late next year if the funding is there.

In a seperate article, people are beginning to ask questions about the streetcar's impact on traffic which will certainly have to be studied. Won't it be great when people can live on Peachtree and never have to even consider using a car.

Edited December 2, 2005 by Martinman

[Student]

It would be nice to be able to live anywhere without using a car. But when all this comes along, Peachtree will become the premier street of the south.

[UrbanAtl]

I totally agree, Martinman.

Does my yellow arrow show where the TCR project is going? If so, it basically looks like they're talking about the gravel lot next to the Park Tavern. And would the buildings fill up the entire "building envelope" at that point?

One more thought, and this is pretty lame. I tried throwing the buildings into a Google image, and although my attempt to create perspective is pathetic, perhaps it gives some vague notion of what the project might look like on site. (If I even have the right area, which I'm not sure about at all).

First of all... Andrea, WOW! Great work! I'm very impressed. I couldn't imagine where those building were going. I thought that they were going on the other side of the tracks, not the gravel lot. There is a small strip of forest that separates the homes from the tracks. It's as wide as the gravel lot but not as long. If these buildings are built, where ever, I think that the tiny collection of homes on the park side of Monroe will go in time. If approved they might as well designate all properties on that side of Monroe for high density.

[Martinman]

Its good that a regional transit plan could finally be developed. This is what I thought GRTA would do but of course we found out the agency had little power.

"The region's mass transit systems, from mammoth MARTA to modest suburban bus systems, may soon join forces to push for better coordination and

Edited December 15, 2005 by Martinman

[catlike]

Could someone list the reasons why someone would be against the beltline.

Possibly because it is such a long-term project whose benefits may not be seen immediately? I'm sure there are people that believe that focusing instead on short-term transit projects (say, the Peachtree Street streetcar) would show improvement and give a lift to the city in a more timely fashion.

I gotta say, as much as I love the concept of the Beltline, it does kinda get me down when I think of how old I would be by the predicted completion time.

[Lady Celeste]

Its good that a regional transit plan could finally be developed. This is what I thought GRTA would do but of course we found out the agency had little power.

"The region's mass transit systems, from mammoth MARTA to modest suburban bus systems, may soon join forces to push for better coordination and

[Andrea]

To Sen Fort.........sit and spin.....if you can't come up with a better idea then stop trying to be counter just for the sake of being counter.

Celeste, I know Vincent Fort and I don't think he's trying to just be contrary. The sad fact is that Cobb, Clayton and Gwinnett Counties refused to join MARTA 40 years ago (for reasons which are probably evident to most folks who've been hanging around this town for a while), despite the fact that it was a unique and pioneering project, unlike anything else being done in the South. They have staunchly refused over the ensuing 4 decades to join MARTA. They even kept their own transit systems to themselves while taking advantage of MARTA's infrastucture by picking up and dropping off passengers at its stations.

Consequently the financial burden of making MARTA happen has fallen on Fulton and DeKalb Counties. So there's a bit of the Little Red Hen syndrome going on here. After Mother Hen MARTA spent decades planning the system, constructing it, maintaining, expanding and operating it, scrounging up the money year after year with no help from the all the little chicks in the suburban counties, they suddenly want to come in and take charge.

I think what Sen. Fort is saying is simply that he's not willing to sacrifice the interests of the people who've carried the system for the last 40 years (and really much farther back than that) to the interests of commuters who've moved away from Atlanta in droves and kept MARTA at arm's length since the beginning.

MARTA needs help, the suburban counties need help, and the whole area clearly requires a better transit structure. Change needs to happen and some sort of larger transportation authority needs to be formed. But I can also understand the concerns that the interests of Atlanta's long term residents -- the people who've built, supported and used MARTA for decades -- don't get trampled in the process.