American Tobacco Historic District

[KJHburg]

13 minutes ago, po-boy said:

Nice. That was long-rumored, but with their layoffs last fall I figured it was canceled.

I did too but with all huge companies they are lay off one area and hire in another.  Plus as competitive in terms of finding techies in the Triangle it is even more so in California and the west coast.  Plus I think it would be hard to convince a NC State or NC A&T grad to move out there in California to make a good salary and live with roommates or in a micro apartment given the cost of living.  I have said for years big tech needs to spread their locations around the country for lots of reason including disaster recovery being one of them.  Look at Apple and their huge campus in Austin and upcoming large location in RTP.  

[rancenc]

Follow up article to @KJHburg's posting yesterday on Meta's "official" presence in downtown Durham.  Hopefully this workforce expands in the future!

https://abc11.com/meta-durham-offices-downtown-american-tobacco-campus/12809736/

[SydneyCarton]

March 2, 2023


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[nicholas]

One day later, nothing new to report.

[SydneyCarton]

March 28th


The new project is supposed to have fountains. These are the best ones in N and S Carolina IMO. I hope that Hines doesn’t skimp.




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[KJHburg]

Not yet started but the marketing of the office building is ongoing one of Hines Timber sustainable buildings. 

https://www.t3americantobacco.com/

[SydneyCarton]

I wonder if they’ll switch to all residential.  Everyone in this area works remotely.

[KJHburg]

10 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

I wonder if they’ll switch to all residential.  Everyone in this area works remotely.

Not everyone I think they will build the office once they have a tenant.  Some tech employers allow all remote or mostly remote but many do not so it just depends.  Apple would not be building their huge  campus if they were not going to make people go into the office.  I think Google requires 3 or so days in the office too. But of course there are other tenants in the market too. 

 

[SydneyCarton]

23 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Not everyone I think they will build the office once they have a tenant.  Some tech employers allow all remote or mostly remote but many do not so it just depends.  Apple would not be building their huge  campus if they were not going to make people go into the office.  I think Google requires 3 or so days in the office too. But of course there are other tenants in the market too. 

 

Apple, Google, and Amazon made enormous investments in real estate just before Covid, and I think that that drives their demand for some time in the office.  Everyone I know in the Triangle works remotely. 
 

Perhaps Hines will switch to lab space, or maybe Duke will take it.

[KJHburg]

Just now, SydneyCarton said:

Apple, Google, and Amazon made enormous investments in real estate just before Covid, and I think that that drives their demand for some time in the office.  Everyone I know in the Triangle works remotely. 
 

Perhaps Hines will switch to lab space, or maybe Duke will take it.

Apple has leased over 200,000 sq ft in Cary and Durham since Covid.  Then why would Apple be getting ready to start 700,000 sq ft of office space if everyone works from home?  they dont.  Yes many do in the tech but premier companies like Apple can get people back to the office and with all the layoffs in tech of recent I would not want to be the out of sight out of mind employee working at home all the time. 

[SydneyCarton]

Just now, KJHburg said:

Apple has leased over 200,000 sq ft in Cary and Durham since Covid.  Then why would Apple be getting ready to start 700,000 sq ft of office space if everyone works from home?  they dont.  Yes many do in the tech but premier companies like Apple can get people back to the office and with all the layoffs in tech of recent I would not want to be the out of sight out of mind employee working at home all the time. 

That would be good.  I’d really like for this project to start.

[KJHburg]

5 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

That would be good.  I’d really like for this project to start.

I am just saying going forward the office market will be moving a lot slower even in fast growing places like Raleigh Durham and Charlotte.    Hines is well funded and they will phase the office in for sure as it is 2 buildings.  

[SydneyCarton]

ATC is mentioned in this recent article.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/real-estate-news/article276857773.html

”…A CBC spokesperson confirmed site work has started, and they’re actively leasing space. A timeline for the project’s completion is still unknown.,,,”

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by SydneyCarton

[Raleigh Walker]

On 1/26/2023 at 5:04 PM, Raleigh Walker said:

This is the Triangle. They demo'd the Ford dealership, it will now remain a vacant parking lot for ~18-36 months and after that we might get an update saying construction will start in another 18 months. 

 

On 1/26/2023 at 7:02 PM, KJHburg said:

No it is called office space market upheaval caused by whole exploding work from home environment.  I have no doubt Hines will proceed with this project.  But with escalating construction costs, tenants needing less space all projects have been slowed down.  They are advertising it now on Loopnet which is new.  Google which is subleasing space in the Durham ID building may be slowing down any new space requirements themselves.  Tech firms with a few exceptions are shedding lots of office space across the country right now.  Even Glaxo downsized 90% in the Triangle from their RTP campus to a much much smaller space in the ATC.    However there is a flight to quality where tenants want new space in highly amenitized buildings and this would fit that bill with the retail, residential and office space.   Hines will make it happen in due time.  

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/602-Willard-St-Durham-NC/25329462/

Here is their marketing video they are stepping up the marketing for sure now.

https://hines.ent.box.com/s/dhlodo4wpqyc5yx3xfcycg0a23ehge48

8 months and counting, I'm just sayin'!

[SydneyCarton]

Nothing is happening as of July 18th.

[KJHburg]

this is why I dont worry about the ATC expansion happening and that one word is Hines.  

""Hines is a privately owned global real estate investment, development and management firm, founded in 1957, with a presence in 395 cities in 30 countries and $95.79 billion¹ of investment assets under management and more than 96 million square feet of assets for which Hines provides third-party property-level services.

Hines has 203 developments currently underway around the world, and historically, has developed, redeveloped or acquired 1,610 properties, totaling over 537 million square feet. The firm’s current property and asset management portfolio includes 685 properties, representing over 216 million square feet. With extensive experience in investments across the risk spectrum and all property types, and a foundational commitment to ESG, Hines is one of the largest and most respected real estate organizations in the world.""

https://www.hines.com/properties/american-tobacco-campus-expansion-durham

The minute they got involved with Fenton in Cary with the SC based developer I knew that would accelerate.  It is easy to say it wont happen but I would bet it will given their strength, reputation and funding mechanisms. 

 

[SydneyCarton]

19 hours ago, KJHburg said:

this is why I dont worry about the ATC expansion happening and that one word is Hines.  

""Hines is a privately owned global real estate investment, development and management firm, founded in 1957, with a presence in 395 cities in 30 countries and $95.79 billion¹ of investment assets under management and more than 96 million square feet of assets for which Hines provides third-party property-level services.

Hines has 203 developments currently underway around the world, and historically, has developed, redeveloped or acquired 1,610 properties, totaling over 537 million square feet. The firm’s current property and asset management portfolio includes 685 properties, representing over 216 million square feet. With extensive experience in investments across the risk spectrum and all property types, and a foundational commitment to ESG, Hines is one of the largest and most respected real estate organizations in the world.""

https://www.hines.com/properties/american-tobacco-campus-expansion-durham

The minute they got involved with Fenton in Cary with the SC based developer I knew that would accelerate.  It is easy to say it wont happen but I would bet it will given their strength, reputation and funding mechanisms. 

 

I think that it will happen, but it’s not clear when.  There’s a strong demand for residential, although financing right now is apparently very expensive.

The office space could be made into lab space or perhaps Duke will want it.  

While cities with finance and large law/accounting firm tenants seem to have demand for new office space, the types of businesses in the Triangle definitely seem to be committed to remote work.  Everyone that I know works remotely.

Edited July 20, 2023 by SydneyCarton

[dmccall]

On 9/14/2022 at 12:21 PM, SydneyCarton said:

Obviously, this is just my opinion, but Durham pulls a lot of weight for its size and is poised to solidify its spot as the second best city in NC.
 

September 14, 2022

 

 

 

 

 

The old Ford showroom, which is on Hines’ site, is visible from here.

 

 

 

 

 

On the other side of the tracks from the ATC, but nice nonetheless.

 

Were these photos taken during the shutdown? Where are the people?

[SydneyCarton]

No.  Downtown Durham is pretty sleepy.

[Raleigh Walker]

On 7/19/2023 at 2:33 PM, KJHburg said:

this is why I dont worry about the ATC expansion happening and that one word is Hines.  

""Hines is a privately owned global real estate investment, development and management firm, founded in 1957, with a presence in 395 cities in 30 countries and $95.79 billion¹ of investment assets under management and more than 96 million square feet of assets for which Hines provides third-party property-level services.

Hines has 203 developments currently underway around the world, and historically, has developed, redeveloped or acquired 1,610 properties, totaling over 537 million square feet. The firm’s current property and asset management portfolio includes 685 properties, representing over 216 million square feet. With extensive experience in investments across the risk spectrum and all property types, and a foundational commitment to ESG, Hines is one of the largest and most respected real estate organizations in the world.""

https://www.hines.com/properties/american-tobacco-campus-expansion-durham

The minute they got involved with Fenton in Cary with the SC based developer I knew that would accelerate.  It is easy to say it wont happen but I would bet it will given their strength, reputation and funding mechanisms. 

 

I'm sure it actually will happen, I'm really just teasin'. Lots of these ambitious projects move very slowly or get cancelled. 

[SydneyCarton]

I think that Hines will build the entire complex, though I’m still suspect of the office space.  Maybe that will be residential.

It took Hines around 8 years before they completed this 1,100’ condo in Manhattan.  It was worth the wait, and it has been an extraordinary success.  The units have been selling at $7k to $8k per square foot.

 

 

 

 

 

Here are some units that recently sold.  Hines is a patient company, and its patience pays off. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by SydneyCarton

[SydneyCarton]

October 27, 2023: nothing happening….

I assume that high interest rates are stalling this project because there’s a demand for apartments, and  as far as the office space goes, I could see Duke taking it.

Edited October 30, 2023 by SydneyCarton

[Raleigh Walker]

On 7/10/2023 at 2:41 PM, Raleigh Walker said:

 

8 months and counting, I'm just sayin'!

 

On 10/30/2023 at 10:48 AM, SydneyCarton said:

October 27, 2023: nothing happening….

I assume that high interest rates are stalling this project because there’s a demand for apartments, and  as far as the office space goes, I could see Duke taking it.

10 months and counting- just saying.

[KJHburg]

How long has it been on Downtown South in Raleigh?  In this environment it takes even more time.  

Architect renderings of these apartments at ATC and they will be spectacular.

American Tobacco Campus | Dwell Design Studio

 

[Richhamleigh, DC]

On 12/22/2023 at 2:04 PM, KJHburg said:

How long has it been on Downtown South in Raleigh?  In this environment it takes even more time.  

Architect renderings of these apartments at ATC and they will be spectacular.

American Tobacco Campus | Dwell Design Studio

 

Is this a real thing?