American Tobacco Historic District

[KJHburg]

I noticed from that plan a lot taller buildings to get all the apartments and office space they want to build.

Hines is going to building one of their Timber buildings have they have done in Atlanta, Denver and other places.  

[SydneyCarton]

https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2021/10/american-tobacco-campus-durham-downtown-expansion-renovation-google-t3-timber-triangle-business-journal

 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by SydneyCarton

[Nindec]

More detailed plan for the expansion, showing space for a grocery store on Willard:

[Durham_Transplant]

Man I would kill to have Burial go into that spot they are designating for a brewery. 
 

I know they discussed having a movie theater but wonder if they are firm on that. Nearly 20k square feet is huge for the entertainment space. 

[SydneyCarton]

This is going to really enhance downtown Durham.

[KJHburg]

25,000 sq ft for a grocer that sounds like a Trader Joes to me or maybe a Sprouts or maybe an Amazon Fresh store 

That would be great for downtown Durham! 

Edited November 27, 2021 by KJHburg

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Or Lidl 

[Raleigh Walker]

On 11/27/2021 at 9:20 AM, Nindec said:

More detailed plan for the expansion, showing space for a grocery store on Willard:

Where did you find this plan?

[DPK]

2 hours ago, Raleigh Walker said:

Where did you find this plan?

Pretty sure they found it on LoopNet, but I can't find the specific listing myself either.

Edited November 29, 2021 by DPK

[carolina1792]

Trader Joe's generally prefers stand alone shops especially in mid-sized cities so don't get you hopes up on that brand. That space is going to be a hard sell even for ATC. 

[Prodev]

1 hour ago, carolina1792 said:

That space is going to be a hard sell even for ATC. 

They already have a signed lease. (it's not TJ)

[orulz]

1 hour ago, carolina1792 said:

Trader Joe's generally prefers stand alone shops especially in mid-sized cities so don't get you hopes up on that brand. That space is going to be a hard sell even for ATC. 

Charlotte begs to differ; I'd say it's a possibility.



25k is an odd size for a grocer though. There's Aldi, Lidl, and TJ's, who typically like stores in the 10-20k range, while Publix/HT etc very seldom go below 30k. So 25k is kind of a no man's land. Will be interesting to see how this pans out.
 

[KJHburg]

4 hours ago, Prodev said:

They already have a signed lease. (it's not TJ)

okay it is a local based grocer?  maybe a coop or something?   Could this be it?   Weaver Street Market | Community-Owned Natural Foods Grocery Store

Edited November 30, 2021 by KJHburg

[carolina1792]

34 minutes ago, orulz said:

Charlotte begs to differ; I'd say it's a possibility.



25k is an odd size for a grocer though. There's Aldi, Lidl, and TJ's, who typically like stores in the 10-20k range, while Publix/HT etc very seldom go below 30k. So 25k is kind of a no man's land. Will be interesting to see how this pans out.
 

I think Charlotte would be offended to be called mid-sized. Who does Charlotte have to pay off to be considered a large metro!

Edited November 29, 2021 by carolina1792

[Durham_Transplant]

Personally I’m skeptical that the grocery store will be much use there outside of the people working there or living within a few blocks. South Bank site or somewhere more central downtown would be much more beneficial. Getting in and out of that location by car seems like it will be really challenging with Willard and Jackson providing the only direct access. 

[Richhamleigh, DC]

On 11/29/2021 at 5:52 PM, Durham_Transplant said:

Personally I’m skeptical that the grocery store will be much use there outside of the people working there or living within a few blocks. South Bank site or somewhere more central downtown would be much more beneficial. Getting in and out of that location by car seems like it will be really challenging with Willard and Jackson providing the only direct access. 

The goal is to build a city where people walk to grocery stores.  Like real cities.   Most of what is under construction in Durham's downtown is residential.  Work places are just gravy.  One day, there will be fixed guideway transit between downtown Durham and RTP and RDU, that will also contribute to the success of a much more dense downtown Durham.  Durham's "only" problems are crime ,race and mismanagement by a hardly functional municipal government.  These things are going to kill the goose that's laying the golden eggs...

Edited December 1, 2021 by Phillydog

[Durham_Transplant]

On 12/1/2021 at 1:20 PM, Phillydog said:

The goal is to build a city where people walk to grocery stores.  Like real cities.   Most of what is under construction in Durham's downtown is residential.  Work places are just gravy.  One day, there will be fixed guideway transit between downtown Durham and RTP and RDU, that will also contribute to the success of a much more dense downtown Durham.  Durham's "only" problems are crime ,race and mismanagement by a hardly functional municipal government.  These things are going to kill the goose that's laying the golden eggs...

I understand all that. Before I moved here I spent 10 years living in “real” cities so I appreciate the pros and cons of walking to the grocery store. My point was that this location is at the very edge of the downtown core which makes it fairly inaccessible to a lot of the people living downtown. A more central location would be reachable for a lot more of the downtown population. Maybe we’ll get another grocery store downtown and it’s a moot point but for the time being anyone living on the other side of Main St from ATC is more than likely going to still be driving to the grocery store.

[DPK]

4 hours ago, Durham_Transplant said:

 but for the time being anyone living on the other side of Main St from ATC is more than likely going to still be driving to the grocery store.

I mean it's far better to stick the grocery store on the ATC side of the tracks in terms of residential traffic.  There are more apartments surrounding the ATC than downtown proper.   You have the new condos being built to the West, the Cortland Bull City Apartments that replaced the old dilapidated hotel, Whetstone apartments by the bus station, the bust station traffic in general, Willard Apartments, Bullhouse Apartments, Van Alen Apartments, and 2-3 other new apartment buildings going up by Ciderworks right now.  Not to mention just the general office traffic picking up quick things on the way home from ATC, 555 Mangum, Avalara, etc.

While yes there is some residential on the other side of the tracks downtown, the ATC side has a wealth of footsteps that will keep a grocery store there bustling without batting an eye.

Edited December 9, 2021 by DPK

[KJHburg]

New website for Hines and their expansion of the ATC campus with their T3 buildings and as I said before these buildings seem to be made for tech companies hint Google.

https://www.t3americantobacco.com/   Over 411K sq ft of office space in 2 buildings plus lots of retail and high rise residential. 

[SydneycartonII]

NC’s Second City (after Charlotte) is looking better and better.  This addition will be really nice.

P.S.: It’s really funny that people from Raleigh are puzzled when I express my opinion that Durham is better than Raleigh.

Edited June 30, 2022 by SydneycartonII

[Richhamleigh, DC]

What's the delay with groundbreaking?  Durham's bureaucracy?  Waiting on tenant(s)?  

[SydneycartonII]

I was at the ATC tonight.  Nothing is happening here yet.

 

 

[KJHburg]

well this seems to be big news.  Fresh Market coming to downtown Durham at the new ATC expansion.

""Most notably, Hines and Capitol Broadcasting Company will expand American Tobacco’s massive campus with the construction of new retail, office and multifamily space. The Fresh Market has signed on to anchor the retail portion of the project.""

https://wraltechwire.com/2022/08/25/report-new-companies-projects-driving-more-changes-to-triangles-skyline/

[Raleigh Walker]

On 6/27/2022 at 1:37 PM, SydneycartonII said:

NC’s Second City (after Charlotte) is looking better and better.  This addition will be really nice.

P.S.: It’s really funny that people from Raleigh are puzzled when I express my opinion that Durham is better than Raleigh.

No one is puzzled by your opinion, just puzzled by why you feel the need to broadcast it so loudly on almost 100% of your posts. We get it- you're a hipster who dislikes Raleigh because you're too cool for that city. 

[SydneyCarton]

2 hours ago, Raleigh Walker said:

No one is puzzled by your opinion, just puzzled by why you feel the need to broadcast it so loudly on almost 100% of your posts. We get it- you're a hipster who dislikes Raleigh because you're too cool for that city. 

I'm not remotely a hipster.  I just find Raleigh to be really disappointing compared to Charlotte.  No one should care.  Many people here in CH tell me that they couldn't live in Charlotte, because it's a "crazy, big city."  Everyone likes different things.