Whats the biggest Grand Rapids eyesore?

[wingbert]

Haven't been around Grand Rapids long enough to say the biggest eyesore, although while driving downtown with amazement I was surprise to see a little ways off down the road decay buildings... didn't look to attracting in that area so I didn't really go check it out.

You should check out the Super Mercado... I think it literally made my eyes sore.

[arcturus]

Bumping an old thread. Don't know if anyone has mentioned the train depot but it's more than an eyesore, it's an embarrassment.

What a sorry excuse of a place ... terrible parking, cramped facility, and located in such a way as to block 2 streets when loading/unloading.

Holland's station looks like a palace in comparison.

[Kib]

Bumping an old thread. Don't know if anyone has mentioned the train depot but it's more than an eyesore, it's an embarrassment.

What a sorry excuse of a place ... terrible parking, cramped facility, and located in such a way as to block 2 streets when loading/unloading.

Holland's station looks like a palace in comparison.

Considering Amtrak federal funding was being slashed (at least in the prior administration) and state funding was nearly cut as well, if given the choice of keeping the trains themselves operating vs. spiffing up a depot station used for two hours, twice a day, I'll take the former.

[walker]

Bumping an old thread. Don't know if anyone has mentioned the train depot but it's more than an eyesore, it's an embarrassment.

What a sorry excuse of a place ... terrible parking, cramped facility, and located in such a way as to block 2 streets when loading/unloading.

Holland's station looks like a palace in comparison.

Actually the overflow parking lot across the street is never full and is more convenient than the parking at Holland.

Last year though, as part of the passed stimulus bill, money was earmarked (by anti-earmark congressman Vern Ehlers) to relocate the Amtrak station to the Rapid bus terminal:

new amtrak station

Haven't heard anything about this since the initial stories. I wonder where you will park if they ever do this?

[joeDowntown]

Walker, good point. What is going on with the $4 million?

As far as not improving Amtrak because of the current economic condition, we need to get this done (and in Grand Rapids, if we want to get it done, it usually happens). Mass transit will be a big part of peoples lives in the years to come and buying the land, etc. to extend the railway will only get more expensive.

Speaking of Amtrak, I hope that as Michigan earmarks money for and improved Chicago to Detroit system, we find a way to become part of this system. Chicago to Detroit, with a line extending to Grand Rapids. This would allow for more GR to CHI options, as well as GR to DET.

Joe

[Ted]

Speaking of Amtrak, I hope that as Michigan earmarks money for and improved Chicago to Detroit system, we find a way to become part of this system. Chicago to Detroit, with a line extending to Grand Rapids. This would allow for more GR to CHI options, as well as GR to DET.

Joe

+1 Joe. Grand Rapids need to get serious about these connections.

[gvsusean]

+1 Joe. Grand Rapids need to get serious about these connections.

is it possible that we could become a stop from chicago to detroit instead of a branch off the line... i think tax-free, free land and other incentives could do it .. maybe..... how about bribes, anything...

[InSecurity]

Actually the overflow parking lot across the street is never full and is more convenient than the parking at Holland.

Last year though, as part of the passed stimulus bill, money was earmarked (by anti-earmark congressman Vern Ehlers) to relocate the Amtrak station to the Rapid bus terminal:

new amtrak station

Haven't heard anything about this since the initial stories. I wonder where you will park if they ever do this?

It's on the DDA Agenda for Wednesday's meeting.

[joeDowntown]

Great, thanks for the information! If anybody attends the meeting, give us the scoop.

Thanks,

Joe

It's on the DDA Agenda for Wednesday's meeting.

[AlexPKeaton]

is it possible that we could become a stop from chicago to detroit instead of a branch off the line... i think tax-free, free land and other incentives could do it .. maybe..... how about bribes, anything...

Pretty doubtful as we're way out of the way. That's the thing about Michigan, we're a cul-de-sac, you'll never just be passing through (well, maybe if you're going to Canada).

[fotoman311]

Pretty doubtful as we're way out of the way. That's the thing about Michigan, we're a cul-de-sac, you'll never just be passing through (well, maybe if you're going to Canada).

Yeah. Every time I see one of the High Speed Rail Network maps, I get a little depressed because I don't see the line going up to GR.

There is a long-range plan for a spur to GR and even between GR and Holland, (http://www.midwesthsr.org/projects-michigan), but it probably won't be happening right away...and if Sarah Palin is elected in 2012, it might be even longer.

[wmrharris]

The primary rail traffic is the Grand Trunk, Sarnia-Chicago line (this connects Canadian Atlantic ports with the Midwest), not surprisingly, a line owned by Canadians. rail traffic in W Michigan is probably better thought of as a regional concern -- think how a combination of buses and local rail could link to the airport. building short run dedicated lines to Holland, Kalamazoo and Lansing would be a first step. The Lansing line then is extended to metro Detroit (Ann Arbor, or Troy being my choices).

[suydam]

Yeah. Every time I see one of the High Speed Rail Network maps, I get a little depressed because I don't see the line going up to GR.

There is a long-range plan for a spur to GR and even between GR and Holland, (http://www.midwesthsr.org/projects-michigan), but it probably won't be happening right away...and if Sarah Palin is elected in 2012, it might be even longer.

I'm always interested to see how these things get decided, but who thought Battle Creek needed a station more than Kalamazoo on this high speed rail? Kalamazoo has a state university with 25,000 kids, a joint population (Kzoo+Portage) of about 150,000 and a functioning train/bus station combo that Grand Rapids would love to have.... but yeah, let's build the high speed station in Battle Creek. That makes sense. ;-)

[gvsusean]

I'm always interested to see how these things get decided, but who thought Battle Creek needed a station more than Kalamazoo on this high speed rail? Kalamazoo has a state university with 25,000 kids, a joint population (Kzoo+Portage) of about 150,000 and a functioning train/bus station combo that Grand Rapids would love to have.... but yeah, let's build the high speed station in Battle Creek. That makes sense. ;-)

THIS IS WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE CITIES INCLUDED ARE GR, KZOO, MUSK., LANSING, AND FINALLY DETROIT

[GRDadof3]

It's on the DDA Agenda for Wednesday's meeting.

Don't get your hopes up too high guys. They're looking at building the platform and station for $850,000 (they're getting $3.8 Million from the Feds to move the tracks).

http://www.ci.grand-rapids.mi.us/download_upload/meeting/packets/d8b0808f435ac821caadeba2e7c8c3d2.pdf

[joeDowntown]

I always thought that the train would share the Rapid Station, not sit adjacent to it. That seems like a waste of resources if Central Station could be utilized.

Joe

Don't get your hopes up too high guys. They're looking at building the platform and station for $850,000 (they're getting $3.8 Million from the Feds to move the tracks).

http://www.ci.grand-rapids.mi.us/download_upload/meeting/packets/d8b0808f435ac821caadeba2e7c8c3d2.pdf

[walker]

I always thought that the train would share the Rapid Station, not sit adjacent to it. That seems like a waste of resources if Central Station could be utilized.

Joe

I happened to be in Salt Lake City this past spring and went to their Amtrak station to pick someone up. Their layout was similar to the Grand Rapids proposal. They have a new impressive bus / light rail intermodal terminal (Leed certified I believe) with a much more spartan new Amtrak station in an adjacent building. Ironically the much more impressive old Rio Grande Railroad train station was in sight just a block away. The old station was being used as government offices and the old tracks had been removed.

Salt Lake Intermodal diagram

Salt Lake Intermodal picture

Salt Lake Amtrak building

Old Rio Grande Station

[suydam]

THIS IS WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE CITIES INCLUDED ARE GR, KZOO, MUSK., LANSING, AND FINALLY DETROIT

I agree with the benefits of serving other cities, but the truth is, Kalamazoo, Battle Creek, Jackson and Ann Arbor are all direction between Chicago and Detroit, so they're logical (despite my rant about Battle Creek getting a high speed station in favor of Kalamazoo).

GR, Muskegon and Lansing are all out of the way.

You could loop in GR and Lansing with a northern route, but that's much further and I'm not even sure if there are tracks from GR to Lansing to Detroit that could be used.

Distances:

• Chicago->Kalamazoo->Detroit = 280 miles
  
• Chicago->Kalamazoo->Lansing->Detroit = 308 miles
  
• Chicago->GR->Lansing->Detroit = 333 miles
  
• Chicago->Muskegon->GR->Lansing->Detroit = 384 miles
  

With limited budget, it's easy to see why Muskegon and GR (and even Lansing) get skipped.

[GRDadof3]

I happened to be in Salt Lake City this past spring and went to their Amtrak station to pick someone up. Their layout was similar to the Grand Rapids proposal. They have a new impressive bus / light rail intermodal terminal (Leed certified I believe) with a much more spartan new Amtrak station in an adjacent building. Ironically the much more impressive old Rio Grande Railroad train station was in sight just a block away. The old station was being used as government offices and the old tracks had been removed.

Salt Lake Intermodal diagram

Salt Lake Intermodal picture

Salt Lake Amtrak building

Old Rio Grande Station

Yeah, the thing is, are the days gone where you actually need a giant train station? Do most people sit and wait for hours for the next train, with a whole office building of workers controlling the system? Or do most people get dropped off or arrive just prior to departure, pay for tickets online, and board the train? (I'm thinking the latter). As long as it's clean and modern, does it need to be a monument. That SLC one is pretty sad though. Yikes.

Joe, the map/diagram in the agenda actually shows the new Amtrak station South of Wealthy, separated from the Central Station canopy by a parking lot for Amtrak passengers. A mere short walk from the Amtrak station to the canopy area (couple hundred yards or so).

I did just notice that they'd like to design the platform to accommodate a second train. I can't ever imagine two Amtraks boarding simultaneously, so perhaps they're planning for future commuter rail.

I'm betting it will be about the same scale as the Nashville commuter rail downtown station (talked about here a long time ago):

[Kib]

Or do most people get dropped off or arrive just prior to departure, pay for tickets online, and board the train? (I'm thinking the latter).

Your thinking is accurate. It's not that different than a regional airport. Once you get to a hub facility, you might find yourself hanging around for connecting transport, but otherwise for the most part the only activity is when the transportation arrives and departs.

[AlexPKeaton]

(despite my rant about Battle Creek getting a high speed station in favor of Kalamazoo).

I'd think there would be stops in both cities. It sounds like Battle Creek would just receive station upgrades. Kalamazoo's station doesn't really need them.

[GR8scott]

A few thoughts on this...

The Kalamazoo station was just upgraded a few years ago to modernize and accommodate buses so it is now an intermodal station, it is much larger and busier than Battle Creek so I am assuming they are going to keep the station and upgrade BC, it is already upgraded to "high speed" standards on some stretches in SW MI and I think they are keeping all of stations including the small towns of Niles and Dowagiac.

According to the article in the press today the new station would re-align the tracks to come in from the South and eliminate the need to turn the train around before unloading passengers, saving about 15 minutes, which is a lot. Between that time and the location I think this is money well spent and a step in the right direction, I would have though that they would use the new bus station to dub as the train station as well and looking at an aerial view, there appears to have been track going between the two warehouses south of Wealthy in the past and looks like a natural route spurring from the existing station, but other diagrams show the spur running along 131.

GR can hope for high speed rail line to run with I96 in the future, it would be really neat to connect with the ferry in Muskegon, GR, EL and ultimately Detroit maybe near the river crossing, but there is no way they will replace the Blue Water route to include GR, that would be absurd.

As far as Grand Rapids' biggest eyesore...my vote is the Federal building either that or the new building at Fulton and Division with the vinyl siding. I actually don't mind he post office and the GR Press buildings, they are unique, its just the locations could be used for something much better.

[arcturus]

Relevant links:

Mixed message here. Pere Marquette ridership both increased and decreased depending on what metric they used apparently ...

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2010/11/grand_rapids_looks_at_new_amtr.html

Impressive gains for the Blue Water ...

http://www.marp.org/?p=2472&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Raildudes dad]

A few thoughts on this...

According to the article in the press today the new station would re-align the tracks to come in from the South and eliminate the need to turn the train around before unloading passengers, saving about 15 minutes, which is a lot. Between that time and the location I think this is money well spent and a step in the right direction, I would have though that they would use the new bus station to dub as the train station as well and looking at an aerial view, there appears to have been track going between the two warehouses south of Wealthy in the past and looks like a natural route spurring from the existing station, but other diagrams show the spur running along 131.

GR can hope for high speed rail line to run with I96 in the future, it would be really neat to connect with the ferry in Muskegon, GR, EL and ultimately Detroit maybe near the river crossing, but there is no way they will replace the Blue Water route to include GR, that would be absurd.

What I find pretty "stupid" about the proposed move is that part of the year Amtrak runs with an engine and a cab car. The train does not have to be turned all. When they run up the west side to park the train for the night, no back up move is needed, the train just keeps going north. I see the train parked every morning on the way to work, I think the past year they have used the cab car more often that not.

If they move to the new location, every train will have to back into the station regardless if they have a cab car or not. The train will have to be turned every night even if no cab car is used.

As for where the track used to go between the 2 warehouses, that was how the Pere Marquette Rwy and then the C&O passenger trains used to get to Union Station. If they would relay that track, the current train could pull directly into the station, no backup move. Without a cab car, the train would still need to be turned for the morning departure for Chicago. It makes more sense that the track they are proposing.

As for high speed rail from Detroit to Milwaukee via ferry, it doesn't work for winter months. Even if they solved that, the demand for Detroit to Milwaukee has got to be zilch.

The current station is not an eyesore. Maybe not the best location, but the building looks decent and is fairly well maintained. I doubt if it's open an hour per day.

[joeDowntown]

Wonder why they'd put parking between Central Station and the new Amtrak station. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the train go north of Wealthy and put the parking elsewhere?

It seems to me if we want a transportation hub, it should be just that. Not a couple of buildings semi-close to each other. It also seems that it would make sense to try to put it in Central Station (even if they had to pay more for the track) as over time, the shared space, cost of services and centralized location (especially if we eventually get a commuter rail system) would make it ideal.

I think when it comes to transportation, we need to be thinking about what we need in 5, 10, 20 years. Not just what is slightly more convenient and cost-effective now. It's a big, long-term investment.

Joe