Whats the biggest Grand Rapids eyesore?

[Allison Slater]

The train runs maybe once or twice a day. There are no transfers, it's a terminus. We should be thankful it even gets a building and not just a platform.

[joeDowntown]

That statement wreaks of progress and forward thinking. Think bigger.

Joe

The train runs maybe once or twice a day. There are no transfers, it's a terminus. We should be thankful it even gets a building and not just a platform.

[GRDadof3]

That statement wreaks of progress and forward thinking. Think bigger.

Joe

Well, in tslater's defense, you also build for current demand, and not "wished for" demand.

I wonder if the train stops South of Wealthy because of regulations regarding going under the Wealthy St overpass (too costly?)

[Raildudes dad]

I wonder if the train stops South of Wealthy because of regulations regarding going under the Wealthy St overpass (too costly?)

The reason Wealthy is elevated and US 131 is elevated in that area was because the roadways went over the freight yard tracks. Don't think that's the reason for stopping short. Maybe nobody remembers the tracks used to go there

[joeDowntown]

And my response to that is if you want to build it right, go the extra mile (or block) the first time. It's much harder to go back with hands open the second time for additional funding to move it a little farther (and oh yeah, at that point the building is built so knock it down, start over).

We shouldn't settle for "good enough". I agree that wished, or perceived demand is a slippery slope, but if we're looking 5, 10, 20 years out, and we truly believe in what Grand Rapids will become, do it right the first time.

Great cities don't settle for "good enough".

Joe

Well, in tslater's defense, you also build for current demand, and not "wished for" demand.

I wonder if the train stops South of Wealthy because of regulations regarding going under the Wealthy St overpass (too costly?)

[Allison Slater]

I agree and would love to see a larger station built, but being realistic -- this project is already receiving massive amount of hate from the populace because they think the whole thing is pointless. The majority of the populace is against this, and I don't see a lot of potential rail connections out of Grand Rapids in the next few decades when we're struggling just to get a bus millage passed. I'd rather a small station on a good site now, so that when a commuter rail becomes more of a doable idea, it will be easy to rebuild around the concept needed to make it work at the time. Also, a large station now for perceived demand in the future could make the station seem underused and empty now, which will only further hurt the idea of expansion in the future. Keep it smaller, make it feel like it's busy; give the populace the impression that the demand is there to build bigger in the future.

[joeDowntown]

Tony, I see what you're saying, so I don't want to seem difficult, but 'massive amount of hate'? I don't even know where that statement would come from. I don't think I've read anything particularly negative about building a bigger Amtrak station and extending the line.

And I'm not talking about building a huge station hoping for future growth. I'm talking about combining the Rapid Central Station and Amtrak. Combine the stations, the utilities, the overhead into one Transportation center for the Rapid, Greyhound/Indian Trails (etc), and Amtrak. The actual footprint of Central Station may not need to increase at all (or only in a way that provides a better experience for railway travel).

I think the idea of connecting bus (rapid), rail, greyhound and, possibly in the future, light rail, is the perfect combination and would lead to better utilization of ONE building, not infrequent use of multiple buildings.

Joe

I agree and would love to see a larger station built, but being realistic -- this project is already receiving massive amount of hate from the populace because they think the whole thing is pointless. The majority of the populace is against this, and I don't see a lot of potential rail connections out of Grand Rapids in the next few decades when we're struggling just to get a bus millage passed. I'd rather a small station on a good site now, so that when a commuter rail becomes more of a doable idea, it will be easy to rebuild around the concept needed to make it work at the time. Also, a large station now for perceived demand in the future could make the station seem underused and empty now, which will only further hurt the idea of expansion in the future. Keep it smaller, make it feel like it's busy; give the populace the impression that the demand is there to build bigger in the future.

[fotoman311]

Tony, I see what you're saying, so I don't want to seem difficult, but 'massive amount of hate'? I don't even know where that statement would come from. I don't think I've read anything particularly negative about building a bigger Amtrak station and extending the line.

And I'm not talking about building a huge station hoping for future growth. I'm talking about combining the Rapid Central Station and Amtrak. Combine the stations, the utilities, the overhead into one Transportation center for the Rapid, Greyhound/Indian Trails (etc), and Amtrak. The actual footprint of Central Station may not need to increase at all (or only in a way that provides a better experience for railway travel).

I think the idea of connecting bus (rapid), rail, greyhound and, possibly in the future, light rail, is the perfect combination and would lead to better utilization of ONE building, not infrequent use of multiple buildings.

Joe

I'm having trouble picturing how you could bring a heavy rail line up into the current canopy without providing a barrier that people would have to walk around, or at the very least, a tripping hazard. And during the times there was a train pulled in, it would block the bus traffic. I guess if the line pulled in far enough, it might not block the buses.

You might also have to worry about the exhaust from diesel train in an enclosed space. Not sure if that would be a factor or not, since it wouldn't be right on the edge of the canopy like the buses.

What I could see being more favorable would be a covered shelter over the pedestrian crossing that traverses Goodrich (the south entrance for buses). Currently that crossing just leads to the DASH lot, but you could build the shelter right there. It would mean the trains would come right up near the existing canopy, and you could even run the boarding platform under Wealthy and use that as shelter from the elements.

Having the shelter and station south of Wealthy just means it is 100-150 yds further away. Not a huge deal in my mind, but I can see wanting to have it closer to the Central Station.

[jas49503]

I'm having trouble picturing how you could bring a heavy rail line up into the current canopy without providing a barrier that people would have to walk around, or at the very least, a tripping hazard. And during the times there was a train pulled in, it would block the bus traffic. I guess if the line pulled in far enough, it might not block the buses.

You might also have to worry about the exhaust from diesel train in an enclosed space. Not sure if that would be a factor or not, since it wouldn't be right on the edge of the canopy like the buses.

What I could see being more favorable would be a covered shelter over the pedestrian crossing that traverses Goodrich (the south entrance for buses). Currently that crossing just leads to the DASH lot, but you could build the shelter right there. It would mean the trains would come right up near the existing canopy, and you could even run the boarding platform under Wealthy and use that as shelter from the elements.

Having the shelter and station south of Wealthy just means it is 100-150 yds further away. Not a huge deal in my mind, but I can see wanting to have it closer to the Central Station.

I don't think it would be very realistic and I agree that the current terminal is pretty close as it is, but if you were going to go through the trouble of acquiring the land to bring the tracks to the bus terminal it wouldn't be that much more to build a dedicated train platform next to where the busses pull in to.

[GRDadof3]

I just had an "aha" moment. Looking at the overhead of that area, if they ran the train all the way to the Southern end of the current canopy, where would the Amtrak parking go? The strip of land is pretty narrow South of the Wealthy overpass.

[Raildudes dad]

I just had an "aha" moment. Looking at the overhead of that area, if they ran the train all the way to the Southern end of the current canopy, where would the Amtrak parking go? The strip of land is pretty narrow South of the Wealthy overpass.

This whole thing looks like an after thought If they had laid it out a little different they could have brought the track next to the Wealthy ramp just steps from the bus platform. You know my thoughts on this location. The transit center should have been placed at Bridge Street and the RR tracks. Room for the "tent" and an excellent location for a Sparta to Cutlerville transit line. Close to GVSU and the Dash system to downtown.

[Allison Slater]

Maybe they're also reserving said parking lot for a future extension of the bus canopy, or for the streetcars. They're already using some stops for multiple buses, and they do want to add streetcars which I believe are set to run down Goodrich.