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ericurbanite

Paramount nears sellout

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From TriangleBusiness Journal

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Wow that is very good news. See, that indicates that Raleigh's core has been hurting for some new flashy high-density residential stuff. Even though Glenwood South is on the fringe of downtown, it is an active growing corridor. Maybe this will help fuel the 20+ story high-rise condo project, and perhaps more.

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Maybe this will help fuel the 20+ story high-rise condo project, and perhaps more.

If the Paramount will be full by opening day, then yes, I'd bet the market will continue to be strong for condos in that area--I hope the Hudson and Paladium Plaza does the same thing for the urban core along Fayetteville St.

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Downtown Raleigh needs some affordable residential (<200K) for middle-income people as well. Seems like the trickle of inventory is dominated by units (>200K) that only higher income people can afford.

Too bad the original Oberlin project was killed...

...where is the long-promised Cameron Village residential?

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Downtown Raleigh needs some affordable residential (<200K) for middle-income people as well.  Seems like the trickle of inventory is dominated by units (>200K) that only higher income people can afford.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. I bet that a place downtown would be most attractive to the young professional who doesn't have a whole lot of money or credit to spend. For example, in Asheville, there are a number of developments going up that include studio condos and small one-bedroom units. The smallest units (finished units down to 315 square feet, and 588 square foot unfinished shells) are going for around $80,000- and are remarkably hot sellers. Some may balk at the idea of living in 315 square feet, but I lived in Japan for a year in an apartment one third that size and guess what - it wasn't bad at all! You can't have as much stuff, but we all own too much stuff anyway. At prices like that, these condos don't serve the rich, out-of-towner crowds. They are attractive to small business owners downtown and have been selling quickly.

I'd really like to see something like this in Raleigh, too. Sure you don't get a half mil per unit, but if you build five times as many units in the building you can sell them for $100,000 and get the same return.

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My bldg has 4 units at 700 sf 1BR, 800 sf 2BR, and 1150 sf 3BR. I could only afford the 800sf one when I wanted the 1150, but once I moved in, I found that it was enough space for me, and now, I can't imagine living in the burbs! Some people want their own backyard, but I can just walk down the street to the park to enjoy mine. :thumbsup:

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For example, in Asheville, there are a number of developments going up that include studio condos and small one-bedroom units. The smallest units (finished units down to 315 square feet, and 588 square foot unfinished shells) are going for around $80,000- and are remarkably hot sellers.

Which developments in Asheville are you speaking of?

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Which developments in Asheville are you speaking of?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The new one at 12 S. Lexington, and the former Interstate Motel at 37 Hiawassee. The one on Lexington is only in the first stages of construction, but the one on Hiawassee is almost ready for occupancy. Although you'd pay $110 or more to buy at this stage, $80,000 was the presale price for the least expensive units in each building.

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This is great to see, and downtown Raleigh is really on the verge of doing some great things! Just got back from Charlotte yesterday, and my has Raleigh closed the gap on that area in recent years. The last time I was there was about 5 years ago, and I just sensed that the CBDs are much more comparible now as opposed to back then. Raleigh is starting to grow UP!! I love the Hudson and I think the Dawson is looking quite good as well.

Incidentally, I do agree on the cost of these units. I would love to live in the CBD...but currently these things are seriously pricing me out! C'mon Raleigh, lets see some new affordable things in the Warehouse District or something!

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I was out with some friends who own a unit in Paramount tonight to go see Brokeback Mountain. The building is open..well at least the first five floors. We went in and walked through some of the units including the unit my friends own. They are pretty nice. The interiors are attractive, but the bamboo floors that are in some of the units are going to look very dated in a couple years. The 5th floor rooftop patio is nice, although the pool is quite small. All in all, I think the final product looks better than the renderings, but it is still kinda sprawly and almost reminds me of Oberlin Court phase 2.

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The pool shouldn't be classified as a pool. It is the size of a couple of hottubs. That was a great selling point that really isn't what it was suppose to be. A great idea in nature to have a rooftop pool, just not done right. It would be great if it were a lot bigger. Then there would be some great competition for further developers.

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I agree. I bet that a place downtown would be most attractive to the young professional who doesn't have a whole lot of money or credit to spend. For example, in Asheville, there are a number of developments going up that include studio condos and small one-bedroom units. The smallest units (finished units down to 315 square feet, and 588 square foot unfinished shells) are going for around $80,000- and are remarkably hot sellers. Some may balk at the idea of living in 315 square feet, but I lived in Japan for a year in an apartment one third that size and guess what - it wasn't bad at all! You can't have as much stuff, but we all own too much stuff anyway. At prices like that, these condos don't serve the rich, out-of-towner crowds. They are attractive to small business owners downtown and have been selling quickly.

I'd really like to see something like this in Raleigh, too. Sure you don't get a half mil per unit, but if you build five times as many units in the building you can sell them for $100,000 and get the same return.

I read an article in the Charlotte Observer probably four or five years ago about a developer that put together a building of condos designed to be affordable to folks making $30-35K a year. The architect and everyone involved kept this goal in mind. They had the whole thing reserved in less than 24 hours and a waiting list long enough to fill two more building like it. They were small and stripped down, but could be upfitted later by the owners as their income grew. I have no idea if it was ever built, but wow. Imagine the possibility.

Now tell me there isn't a demand like that here. The people that most want to live downtown are young and single, or right out of college. Think about the sheer number of state workers that work downtown that would fall into this income range. You wouldn't need parking. That right there would save a ton of cost. There are enough decks around that if you had to have your car, you could rent a space.

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I read an article in the Charlotte Observer probably four or five years ago about a developer that put together a building of condos designed to be affordable to folks making $30-35K a year.

For starters, there's Carlton Place, Gateway Park, Capitol Park, and Chavis Heights. They're all public projects aimed at low-income and mid-income households. Gateway Park is 60% of median income, for example. Chavis Heights (under construction) and Capitol Park have both affordable and market rate units. These are all rentals, but Raleigh Community Development Housing has done a number of single-family redevelopments close to downtown as well.

You're not going to build midrise for much less than $250/sf. You can do lowrise stick built residential for less, but those projects won't sell for much less, simply because of the market. Even if the developer could build at $100 or $120/sf for lowrise condominiums close to downtown, the local market already gladly supports much higher prices farther from these amenities.

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For starters, there's Carlton Place, Gateway Park, Capitol Park, and Chavis Heights. They're all public projects aimed at low-income and mid-income households. Gateway Park is 60% of median income, for example. Chavis Heights (under construction) and Capitol Park have both affordable and market rate units. These are all rentals, but Raleigh Community Development Housing has done a number of single-family redevelopments close to downtown as well.

You're not going to build midrise for much less than $250/sf. You can do lowrise stick built residential for less, but those projects won't sell for much less, simply because of the market. Even if the developer could build at $100 or $120/sf for lowrise condominiums close to downtown, the local market already gladly supports much higher prices farther from these amenities.

We need some development down there that are not just public projects. I agree that these are viable options for people, but not everyone wants to live in a mixed community. I still think a market exists for the private investor for mid-income housing.

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why can a developer in richmond build a 17 story, 162 unit building for $50-$55 million, and a developer here can't? Seems like the lower end condos in this building would hit the 'low' end of the market. I think I read that units cost from mid $100s - $600s.

For information, visit http://www.VistasOnTheJames.com.

Is land that much more expensive here?

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...

Now tell me there isn't a demand like that here. The people that most want to live downtown are young and single, or right out of college. Think about the sheer number of state workers that work downtown that would fall into this income range. You wouldn't need parking. That right there would save a ton of cost. There are enough decks around that if you had to have your car, you could rent a space.

I agree that this is a price point that is completely underserved, except maybe by little cookie cutter houses out in Holly Springs or Clayton or someplace like that.

I think, though, that you may have hit on a major cost factor in a building like this-- the need for parking parking parking. I'm pretty sure that your assumption that a developer wouldn't have to provide parking is inaccurate. Are these young, low- to average-income residents of which you speak going to shop for groceries at the ultra-upscale place going in at Seaboard? Doubt they can afford it, so they'll need to go to HT at Cameron Village, or Food Lion over on Western Blvd. Since there's no public transit to speak of in this region, they'll need a car.

Plus, one can't guarantee that even though residents may be hip, young, and urban that they won't also need cars to get to their jobs, to their medical appointments, sporting events, and just to get around. Also, market factors aside, the City's zoning standards will undoubtedly require a minimum # of parking spaces, which in an urban setting usually means parking decks.

Maybe Highwoods in on to something-- build the parking deck, and the rest will come...

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I agree that this is a price point that is completely underserved, except maybe by little cookie cutter houses out in Holly Springs or Clayton or someplace like that.

I'm not sure you're both arguing the same point. You say there needs to be more housing for young, urban professionals. There's already quite a bit of that. There are still a few 750sf and 950sf units available at Palladium Plaza, for example. Asking prices are around $170k and $220k, I believe.

The earlier post was referring to low-income and affordable housing. While there are some overlooked corners near downtown with existing housing for sale to people in the $30k-35k income range, the only significant new housing comes in the form of public projects. That's simply a result of market forces. The proximity to downtown amenities is going to inflate the price of market-rate units beyond the reach of low-income buyers.

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Unfortunately, a lot of young urban professionals make in the $30-35K range.

It's true. My starting salary out of undergrad was pathetic.

I couldn't have afforded $170 - 220K then (or, quite frankly, even 10 years after I graduated-- and I was lucky enough to have no school loans from UG to repay).

my point has been that there ought to be opportunity to build lofts, urban efficiency apartments, modest starter condos and other affordable housing for that salary range and still build up. I wonder, in fact, if more taller residential wouldn't mean more affordability in the market. I suspect it would, but haven't run studies or anything...

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It's true. My starting salary out of undergrad was pathetic.

I couldn't have afforded $170 - 220K then (or, quite frankly, even 10 years after I graduated-- and I was lucky enough to have no school loans from UG to repay).

my point has been that there ought to be opportunity to build lofts, urban efficiency apartments, modest starter condos and other affordable housing for that salary range and still build up. I wonder, in fact, if more taller residential wouldn't mean more affordability in the market. I suspect it would, but haven't run studies or anything...

I think the best oppuritunity for this sort of condo in todays downtown market would be the rehab of the mid-rise towers built in the 1920's and 1930's. I can think of 7 that are 12 stories or less and all would be eligible for historic tax credits that make the cost of rehabilitation very attractive. All of these buildings except the Sir Walter are office space as well, so converting the Raleigh Building, Odd Fellows Building, Commercial building, Lawyers Building, Alexander Building, and the Capital Club Building to residential also tightens the market for office space increasing the chance of more and larger modern office towers. On a side note, four other buildings once stood in Raleigh that were 7-12 stories that are now gone that were built between 1890 and 1930....Park Hotel, Carolina Hotel, Citizens Bank and Commercial Bank.

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I think the best oppuritunity for this sort of condo in todays downtown market would be the rehab of the mid-rise towers built in the 1920's and 1930's. I can think of 7 that are 12 stories or less and all would be eligible for historic tax credits that make the cost of rehabilitation very attractive. All of these buildings except the Sir Walter are office space as well, so converting the Raleigh Building, Odd Fellows Building, Commercial building, Lawyers Building, Alexander Building, and the Capital Club Building to residential also tightens the market for office space increasing the chance of more and larger modern office towers. On a side note, four other buildings once stood in Raleigh that were 7-12 stories that are now gone that were built between 1890 and 1930....Park Hotel, Carolina Hotel, Citizens Bank and Commercial Bank.

If one could figure out the parking situation, those would be awesome conversion projects!

ok, guys. Let's get a group of us together and make it happen. I've got $14.00 in my wallet. Anyone else? Anyone? Anyone?

:good:

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If one could figure out the parking situation, those would be awesome conversion projects!

ok, guys. Let's get a group of us together and make it happen. I've got $14.00 in my wallet. Anyone else? Anyone? Anyone?

:good:

I have $25!

At one time, before all the big parking included residential buildings started coming online, I thought downtown residents, say those in the 27601 zip code, should get a parking sticker that exempted them from the 2 hour zones kind of like the "U" stickers over near NC State. Not sure if that would be enough of a resolution but when I lived in one of those little brick storefronts downtown it would have been a tremendous help.

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a conversion project would kick ass... I had to buy a little condo around 5 points because it was all i could afford... I would love to be downtown, and I know a ton of other people like me... we all got tired of renting and living downtown, so we bought as close as we could get... I feel lucky to even be where I am...

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If one could figure out the parking situation, those would be awesome conversion projects!
Best parking solution? Don't park! :) But seriously. There are plenty of spaces around downtown. Monthly surface lot spaces for rent. There are parking passes to be had in downtown garages. Perhaps the developer could strike a deal with the city for spaces in a nearby deck. It's not exactly an insult to anyone's humanity to have to walk a block or so to reach your car. Folks in other cities do it. On-site parking is overrated. There is plenty of parking around DT Raleigh to make it work.

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