Richmond Developments

[Shakman]

Since I no longer live in the Richmond area, I did not qualify to take the survey.   

Edited January 4, 2018 by Shakman

[eandslee]

15 minutes ago, Shakman said:

Since I no longer live in the Richmond area, I did not qualify to take the survey.   

I technically don't qualify either, but I said that I did live in the area.  You don't have to give an address, but they do ask for your zip code (which I remembered from when I lived there before).  For someone who cares enough about Richmond (despite not actually living there), I think, deserves a say.  Try it again, but this time say that you live there.

[Icetera]

4 hours ago, eandslee said:

Take this survey regarding the RFP released on the arena and surrounding area. Takes about 15 minutes. 

https://www.rfpdowntownrva.com/

That was a rather thorough survey.  Thank you for sharing.

[georgeglass]

7 hours ago, eandslee said:

Take this survey regarding the RFP released on the arena and surrounding area. Takes about 15 minutes. 

https://www.rfpdowntownrva.com/

I took it as well. I still live in RVA and am very much in support.

[Brent114]

Just did it.   I wasn’t kind. 

I just cant let my hate of the housing and funding requirements go. 

[eandslee]

21 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

Just did it.   I wasn’t kind. 

I just cant let my hate of the housing and funding requirements go. 

What do you mean?  You don’t like the fact that the mayor is wanting housing in that area of town (I think I remember you having a hang up about it on another thread)?  What about the funding requirements don’t you like?

[Brent114]

Yeah.  I hate the idea of housing in this area. 

It isn’t necessary, there isn’t room for it to have any spillover effect and I’d rather see infill in Jackson Ward or Monroe Ward (where it would make a difference). 

I don't like the additional retail space.  Retail is dead everywhere.  Adding additional empty storefronts won’t make this area any more lively.  I get the importance of human scale and that retail has historically made neighborhoods much more interesting and vibrant.  Aside from vape and glass shops, can anyone identify a retail establishment that is relevant in 2018?  Broad, Marshall, Grace, Franklin, 2nd, 1st, 4th and 3rd streets are currently lined with empty storefronts.  You cannot add enough housing in such a small area to support the existing retail in the area, much less expand the options.  If we are nearing apartment saturation in Richmond, I’d rather housing be added where it can have a better effect. 

 

Expecting a developer to assume the Coliseum debt and to fully fund the buildout while providing housing at below market rate is ridiculous.  It’s almost as if the city doesn’t want the area developed at all. Nothing has stopped developers from building in this area. There has been zero interest in my 30 years as a Richmond resident (most of that time in Jackson Ward).  Saddling developers/investors with millions of dollars of debt for a building that will be demolished won’t spark interest.

[tparkerzut]

1 hour ago, Brent114 said:

Yeah.  I hate the idea of housing in this area. 

It isn’t necessary, there isn’t room for it to have any spillover effect and I’d rather see infill in Jackson Ward or Monroe Ward (where it would make a difference). 

I don't like the additional retail space.  Retail is dead everywhere.  Adding additional empty storefronts won’t make this area any more lively.  I get the importance of human scale and that retail has historically made neighborhoods much more interesting and vibrant.  Aside from vape and glass shops, can anyone identify a retail establishment that is relevant in 2018?  Broad, Marshall, Grace, Franklin, 2nd, 1st, 4th and 3rd streets are currently lined with empty storefronts.  You cannot add enough housing in such a small area to support the existing retail in the area, much less expand the options.  If we are nearing apartment saturation in Richmond, I’d rather housing be added where it can have a better effect. 

 

Expecting a developer to assume the Coliseum debt and to fully fund the buildout while providing housing at below market rate is ridiculous.  It’s almost as if the city doesn’t want the area developed at all. Nothing has stopped developers from building in this area. There has been zero interest in my 30 years as a Richmond resident (most of that time in Jackson Ward).  Saddling developers/investors with millions of dollars of debt for a building that will be demolished won’t spark interest.

While retail is struggling we've definitely seen an increase in the area, check out the Broad street thread. Also these ground floor 'retail' spaces don't have to be selling clothes/electronics/etc., they can be used for all kinds of businesses. There are architects in the area, a small marketing firm just opened up on Broad street and an infant/baby clothing and supply company went up on Broad. While that is a retail company they are running their business there. We are buying more stuff online but these companies still need a space to be ran and more and more of them don't want to be in the suburbs. Why not give them spaces in the core of the city? I do understand that we still have a lot of empty store fronts, and maybe we need to be conservative in the type and amount of retail offered.

I still don't understand the anti-apartments sentiment in this area. It is literally blocks from where you say we should be putting housing, Jackson Ward and Monroe Ward. While I completely agree that those areas should see increases especially Monroe Ward that doesn't mean we should not include it elsewhere. You make it sound like being vocally against residential in this project will create new apartments in those areas, while I believe that being vocally against residential development will give the city the idea that we don't want housing in the urban core at all. Successful residential development here can lead to more development elsewhere. Yelling at the city for trying just hinders all of it.

I guess I'm just not sure what you want this project to look like? Another mega-block amphitheater surrounded by nothing and offering nothing but blank and empty sidewalks that people completely avoid other than during concerts? In my opinion that's what we have and are trying to get rid of.

[Brent114]

Actually there isn’t much about this that I like at all.  I think arenas are passé.  Unless we can secure a hockey or basketball team I’m not  sure what use it would serve.  The circus is done.  Disney on Ice is done.  Truck rallies are done.  Big concerts are done (especially indoors). NCAA would be sweet but that will only fill it for one of 52 weeks. Spending millions to replace an existing and functioning areana just so the city appears once a year on a channel only available in a sports cable package doesn’t seem like a great use of money to me. And I’m all for using public money to spur private investment. 

Not that anyone is clamoring for more lab space but I’d much rather see the biotech park use this space and I’d like for J Sargent Reynolds to expand in the area.  It isn’t realistic to expect more than 80-150 new residents here if they do include housing.  With all of the students living in the area (VCU dorms) and the employees at the biotech park and medical center, not so much as a Subway can be supported here.  I don’t see how throwing a small number of additional residents in the mix changes anything.  I’d be intrigued by a “build out this area and include affordable housing on this other city-owned land in an existing neighborhood” plan.  I dont like stretching rescourses thin and I think the energy could be better used elsewhere.  As for being close to Jackson Ward, it’s common for Starbucks to build stores across from each other because people don’t like to cross the street.  I don’t imagine many people walking past federal buildings and the convention center to get to Jackson’s. 

[Brent114]

And I’m intimately familiar with the kinds of businesses opening along Broad, Marshall and Brook.  I’ve lived on Broad and Marshall streets for the last 15 years.   There’s definitely a good reinessance occurring but businesses are still closing almost as frequently as they open in the Arts District. 

[tparkerzut]

Well I definitely agree with one thing, I'm not entirely sure we need an arena at all. I think of this project as a way to fix a broken area and if developers are interested in an arena then I think we take advantage of it.

[Brent114]

And I’m not against housing here so much as I’m against it being a requirement.  

I spent the last  week in Milwaukee and Chicago.  Spent a week last winter in Buenos Aries.  I’ve seen the cities of North America and Europe.  All of them have areas of town that serve strictly as business districts and centers of civic services.  It doesn’t make Berlin or Chicago lame that some stretches are devoid of housing and retail.  Downtown NYC is as dead as downtown Richmond after business hours. It’s ok if this very small area bounded by interstates,  valleys and federal buildings isn’t awesome. It definitely needs to be better than it is now though. 

[eandslee]

19 minutes ago, tparkerzut said:

Well I definitely agree with one thing, I'm not entirely sure we need an arena at all. I think of this project as a way to fix a broken area and if developers are interested in an arena then I think we take advantage of it.

You don't think we need a new arena?!  Have you seen it lately?  I know that it currently does not host a whole hell of a lot, but that is because it is a piece of crap!  Unfortunately, the way it works these days is that you build it and they will come (meaning a new hockey team, basketball, etc.).  Sure, it's a risk, but that's why you hire consultants to provide you with the best idea of what to expect with a new arena.  Personally, I think Richmond can easily fill the arena most days of the year with a brand new facility (as opposed to what's there now), even without a new sports team/tenant or two.  The new arena itself will put Richmond on the map for all kinds of events because it will be a brand new facility and people running events like bright, new, shiny things!

As for housing in that area of town, I like the idea.  80-150 new residents?  Pu-leez, you have to think larger than that!  At least, I'm thinking a lot larger than that.  I'm thinking in the hundreds to thousands of new residents!  Of course, I've been known to be a bit more over-the-top/optimistic.

[tparkerzut]

4 minutes ago, eandslee said:

You don't think we need a new arena?!  Have you seen it lately?  I know that it currently does not host a whole hell of a lot, but that is because it is a piece of crap!  Unfortunately, the way it works these days is that you build it and they will come (meaning a new hockey team, basketball, etc.).  Sure, it's a risk, but that's why you hire consultants to provide you with the best idea of what to expect with a new arena.  Personally, I think Richmond can easily fill the arena most days of the year with a brand new facility (as opposed to what's there now), even without a new sports team/tenant or two.  The new arena itself will put Richmond on the map for all kinds of events because it will be a brand new facility and people running events like bright, new, shiny things!

As for housing in that area of town, I like the idea.  80-150 new residents?  Pu-leez, you have to think larger than that!  At least, I'm thinking a lot larger than that.  I'm thinking in the hundreds to thousands of new residents!  Of course, I've been known to be a bit more over-the-top/optimistic.

So I actually am not sold about having any sort of arena, not about fixing our current one. The coliseum is crap I agree and needs to be fixed IF we have an arena. Or we could demolish it AND the convention center, restore the original street grid and build high density residential, commercial and retail space. But that's just me thinking optimistically  . I think super large scale arenas and convention centers are more appropriate slightly outside of the core of our cities. In fact the entire reason ours are where they are if because of terrible urban renewal and part of the process of destroying Jackson Ward and the neighboring areas that were historically African American. I would love to see the area bound by Broad, the highway and Belvidere be a completely full area with tons of mixed use that didn't include full block buildings and mega projects. But that will never happen haha.

More on the arena part. I just don't know how much an arena will really help the Richmond metro area. Just like I don't know how much the Diamond really  helps it. I don't hate either one and would love to got o local hockey games. But if it was completely up to me as a city and/or developer I would focus on different things than an arena. With that said I'm not against this project at all, and would love to see it come to light!

[CitiWalker]

When I hear people say we don't need an arena my reply is " You must be joking right".  I mean there is this thing called an amenity. People typically come to urban areas cities in particular because of what they offer. That big thing that attracts people is opportunity,  variety and availability. People want jobs, a good education for their kids, decent housing, and here is the big one.....ENTERTAINMENT....Here is the common sense thought that may just throw some people a curve. I applaud having more residential units in the core city. Why? More residents mean more customers. Therefore if retail is going to grow downtown it will be good to  have an established base of shoppers within walking distance.  Here is another common sense thought.  Regular folk such as myself love a variety of ways to be entertained whether it be inside or outside.  Arenas are not just used for sporting events and concerts. They are used for graduations and different types of conventions as well as a variety of entertainment events. Every city....Every one...has had bad projects associated with them. There is no such thing as a guaranteed successful project. I applaud the mayor for attempting to move Richmond forward. For so many decades we have had conservative slow moving pieces in place. That is the reason why several southern cities have blown past us and put us in a catch up position. Richmond is finally moving in the right direction with forward thinking people in place. In short. Bring on the Housing. Bring on the arena!!!

[Brent114]

It’s pure fantasy to expect arena based tourism in Richmond.  There aren’t a whole lot of people living outside of Virginia’s three urban areas.  There isn’t a significant population 30-50 miles out from the center of Richmond from which to draw visitors to events.  Further out than that, folks will go into VA Beach or Washington DC to arenas there.  

Promoters don’t care about how nice the concession stands are or about the dazzling facad.  They care about asses in seats.  Metro Richmond alone doesn’t have enough people to keep it filled regularly and the counties surrounding the metro number their residents in the low thousands. States like Ohio, PA and  even NC have sizable towns close to and surrounding their metro areas.  Promoters know this and will pass on Richmond for the dwindling number of events.  

Richmibd built what was one of the largest convention senters in the South when it opened.  The conventions didn’t follow.  Expect more of that but with a much bigger price tag.  

[RVA-Is-The-Best]

^I know what angle you're coming from and actually kind of  agree with you. Sports stadiums (stadia?) and arenas are typically large spaces that take up valuable city land and aren't used that often (particularly if in a smaller metro area like Richmond).

An example of an arena that DOES make use of itself almost every day is the Verizon Center in DC. But that's because they serve a pro basketball team, a pro hockey team, and every big name artist in the country. Richmond has 0/3 and just as much as Richmond has that problem other metro areas our size probably do too.

There's a backlash against public spending on arenas/stadiums because of lack of ROI. That being said, this particular RFP would likely secure private funding for the arena, which I am totally fine with.  But I'd much rather the area be developed into a high density mixed use district but I also do agree we need some arena to serve for larger touring acts and sports events. Sadly I think we've gone past the point where repairing the Coliseum would be cheaper. 

[CitiWalker]

3 hours ago, Brent114 said:

It’s pure fantasy to expect arena based tourism in Richmond.  There aren’t a whole lot of people living outside of Virginia’s three urban areas.  There isn’t a significant population 30-50 miles out from the center of Richmond from which to draw visitors to events.  Further out than that, folks will go into VA Beach or Washington DC to arenas there.  

Promoters don’t care about how nice the concession stands are or about the dazzling facad.  They care about asses in seats.  Metro Richmond alone doesn’t have enough people to keep it filled regularly and the counties surrounding the metro number their residents in the low thousands. States like Ohio, PA and  even NC have sizable towns close to and surrounding their metro areas.  Promoters know this and will pass on Richmond for the dwindling number of events.  

Richmibd built what was one of the largest convention senters in the South when it opened.  The conventions didn’t follow.  Expect more of that but with a much bigger price tag.  

Yeah what you are saying is not totally true. Just like people travel from Richmond to DC, Va. Beach, and Charlottesville people will travel to see events of interest here. An arena would actually compliment a convention center. I think people miss the point of various parts working in conjunction. No one thing is going to create a magic bullet effect. As far as population. Green Bay is just about half the size of Richmond but has a successful pro football team.  One of the biggest issues I have is people complaining there is nothing to do here and traveling and spending money in other cities but as soon as there is a push to create something positive here comes the negative vibes. Dont forget we have a metro area of 1.3 million....not huge...but not peanuts either. Oh by the way facilities matter a heck of a lot and that is the reason Charlottesville is getting decent concerts. We live in a world driven my perceptions. In order to be a destination instead of a stopover we need to have big time facilities.Simple as that

[tparkerzut]

1 hour ago, CitiWalker said:

Yeah what you are saying is not totally true. Just like people travel from Richmond to DC, Va. Beach, and Charlottesville people will travel to see events of interest here. An arena would actually compliment a convention center. I think people miss the point of various parts working in conjunction. No one thing is going to create a magic bullet effect. As far as population. Green Bay is just about half the size of Richmond but has a successful pro football team.  One of the biggest issues I have is people complaining there is nothing to do here and traveling and spending money in other cities but as soon as there is a push to create something positive here comes the negative vibes. Dont forget we have a metro area of 1.3 million....not huge...but not peanuts either. Oh by the way facilities matter a heck of a lot and that is the reason Charlottesville is getting decent concerts. We live in a world driven my perceptions. In order to be a destination instead of a stopover we need to have big time facilities.Simple as that

Please don't use the Green Bay argument. That team has been around for 100 years, is a non profit and community/privately owned. In no way can it compare to sports in today's world.

I also am not against an arena in general especially with private money. I personally beleive that it could be better positioned in the city and do disagree that it makes this huge impact on smaller scale cities. Bigger cities have bigger amenities because they are bigger. We can work on providing the amenities needed to attract people but I don't think arenas do that. I've never heard anyone say I'm moving to DC to be closer to the Verizon center. 

If you're bored in RVA you need to try harder. An arena isn't going to solve you're bordem in a thriving city like this. 

[CitiWalker]

10 hours ago, tparkerzut said:

Please don't use the Green Bay argument. That team has been around for 100 years, is a non profit and community/privately owned. In no way can it compare to sports in today's world.

I also am not against an arena in general especially with private money. I personally beleive that it could be better positioned in the city and do disagree that it makes this huge impact on smaller scale cities. Bigger cities have bigger amenities because they are bigger. We can work on providing the amenities needed to attract people but I don't think arenas do that. I've never heard anyone say I'm moving to DC to be closer to the Verizon center. 

If you're bored in RVA you need to try harder. An arena isn't going to solve you're bordem in a thriving city like this. 

You have managed to miss the entire point.

[RiverYuppy]

Arena or no arena, I'm very pro that area being redeveloped.  

Regarding housing, I don't see the downside of having housing there.  More demand in the city is always a good thing.

Regarding the arena, I really see it as competing with Charlottesville and Norfolk for concerts/attractions.  A minor league hockey team would be nice, but that has no guarantee.  I see a professional team as very unlikely.

If we aren't going to build something that outcompetes Charlottesville and Norfolk, then I don't see the point of us wasting such valuable land.

Perhaps a partnership with VCU would be good too.  VCU Basketball, high school & university graduations, concerts, and other special events could keep it going year 'round.  

[Icetera]

15 minutes ago, RiverYuppy said:

Perhaps a partnership with VCU would be good too.  VCU Basketball, high school & university graduations, concerts, and other special events could keep it going year 'round.  

This may be a tough sell given VCU already has the Siegel Center and accompanying practice facility, though they could certainly play the larger games at the new arena (which was a big part of prior intentions).  Amusingly, the only school in the area that may have the graduation numbers to utilize an arena is VCU, though I suspect the Siegel Center may be being outgrown for such a use.

[eandslee]

Just wanted to point out that we are only 1 month away from the proposal due date 9 February).  I doubt we’ll know anything about any of them until the finalists are chosen, so we’ll have to wait longer I’m afraid before we know any details. 

Edited January 8, 2018 by eandslee

[Wahoo 07]

https://richmondbizsense.com/2018/01/26/c-ville-developer-plans-go-vertical-near-scotts-addition/

Potential new development along the Pulse corridor.  Article states that it could goes as high as ten stories.  This is another example of how transit fuels development.

[eandslee]

Funny thing is that the article doesn’t mention anything about the height of this development. It only mentions that the code allows buildings UP TO 10 stories...that doesn’t mean that this developer will build something that tall there.  In fact, there is no design nor specs yet. I thought the title of the article was very misleading, but I do not deny that the Pulse is part of the reason for the development in the first place.   So, go Pulse!  I hope it spurs even more development!