Jump to content

GSP International


gvillenative

Recommended Posts

  • 4 months later...

Well looks like the previous news Southwest employees were telling me over the Summer about bringing more flights back in 2014 after the cuts turned out to be more hopeful optimism than actual truth.  Word from them now is the Nashville route is gone in June leaving them with just 4 daily flights.  2 to MDW and 1 each to HOU and BWI.  They'll be dropping a gate as well.  Been told their loads out of GSP have been running at 67% which is 8th worst in their system and right now they are bleeding money.  Next step maybe outsourcing their workers to try to cut costs, but right now things aren't looking good for the low cost carrier in the upstate!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep...people want these low cost carriers at GSP then don't even bother supporting them when they do decide to come here. Sad. Only exception is Allegiant.

In other news, I have to say it is awesome to see GSP getting both Thomas Creek and RJ Rockers. :)

Edited by gman430
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well looks like the previous news Southwest employees were telling me over the Summer about bringing more flights back in 2014 after the cuts turned out to be more hopeful optimism than actual truth.  Word from them now is the Nashville route is gone in June leaving them with just 4 daily flights.  2 to MDW and 1 each to HOU and BWI.  They'll be dropping a gate as well.  Been told their loads out of GSP have been running at 67% which is 8th worst in their system and right now they are bleeding money.  Next step maybe outsourcing their workers to try to cut costs, but right now things aren't looking good for the low cost carrier in the upstate!

 

Hang on.  Has Southwest really been conducting business as a low cost carrier?  Every time I check flights, Southwest is rarely the cheapest and certainly not low cost like Allegiant.  I'm sure there is some excuse about oil prices or government interference keeping airline prices high, but regardless, it's not fair to blame Greenville travelers for not using a low cost airline when said airline doesn't have prices any better than airlines like Delta, American, etc.

 

Because all things being equal, I'm going to fly an airline like Delta who lets me reserve my seat without an additional fee, board early without an additional fee, have a snack without an additional fee, and has generally superior customer service.  But that's just me.

Edited by Greenville
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hang on.  Has Southwest really been conducting business as a low cost carrier?  Every time I check flights, Southwest is rarely the cheapest and certainly not low cost like Allegiant.  I'm sure there is some excuse about oil prices or government interference keeping airline prices high, but regardless, it's not fair to blame Greenville travelers for not using a low cost airline when said airline doesn't have prices any better than airlines like Delta, American, etc.

 

Because all things being equal, I'm going to fly an airline like Delta who lets me reserve my seat without an additional fee, board early without an additional fee, have a snack without an additional fee, and has generally superior customer service.  But that's just me.

Well that's b/c when Southwest came in with lower prices it forced other airlines to match those prices.  Sure Southwest isn't the lowest now, but they are the reason you can find affordable fares on every airline and also the reason we don't have the 4th highest avg airfare in the country like we did before they arrived.  They're also great for last minute fares if you have to go out of town on a whim. 

If they aren't supported, they will leave and the other airlines will just jack those prices right back up like they did when Independence shut down.  So if Greenville travelers do not smarten up they will have no one to blame but themselves when Southwest is gone and air prices out of GSP are astronomical again. 

Also, while your fare points are true, Southwest consistently ranks higher in customer service and overall customer satisfaction ratings year in and year out than the other major carriers that serve out of GSP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Because all things being equal, I'm going to fly an airline like Delta who lets me reserve my seat without an additional fee, board early without an additional fee, have a snack without an additional fee, and has generally superior customer service.  But that's just me.

Me, too.  I'll take US Airways, where I can get upgraded on a coach-price ticket, enjoy my nice US Airways Club (in Charlotte), board first, etc., when I fly just a decent amount.  Southwest? Never.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it goes without saying that if Southwest leaves, we will all be flying out of CLT and ATL because GSP will be too expensive.  I wish that Southwest would go to destinations we don't currently have, like Las Vegas or some other Western hub.  Leave Florida to Allegiant, find your own markets.    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think Southwest has ever left a market.

 

Southwest announced Dec 5th that it was ending service in Jackson, Mississippi, Key West, Florida and Branson, Missouri in June.  Jackson and Branson had 4 flights a day.  Key West had 3.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinthesky/2013/12/06/southwest-airlines-branson-key-west-jackson-evers/3889197/

Edited by rssgvegas
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinthesky/2013/12/06/southwest-airlines-branson-key-west-jackson-evers/3889197/

 

For another post re: bag fees for other airlines: there are no bag fees if you either (1) just take your bag and drop it off planeside, rather than checking it at the ticket counter, or (2) have an airline credit card.

 

I still don't see all the fuss about Southwest.  I'd just assume that people have low expectations for air travel, and Southwest meets those expectations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

If they aren't supported, they will leave and the other airlines will just jack those prices right back up like they did when Independence shut down.  So if Greenville travelers do not smarten up they will have no one to blame but themselves when Southwest is gone and air prices out of GSP are astronomical again. 

Also, while your fare points are true, Southwest consistently ranks higher in customer service and overall customer satisfaction ratings year in and year out than the other major carriers that serve out of GSP.

I can think of only three ways for Greenville (Spartanburg, Anderson) travelers to "smarten up," if I understand your comment correctly: 1) start flying more; or 2) quit driving to Charlotte (or elsewhere; though I can't imagine driving to Atlanta to fly) and originate here in GSP; or 3) shift from other GSP carriers to Southwest.

 

But nobody's going to (or should) just start flying to keep an airline in town, whatever its perceived benefits; and if people are in fact still going to other airports, its because they perceive a better deal there (driving included). If Southwest hasn't pulled them away from that option, then its not likely that any airline will, and who am I to second-guess them on how they travel?; and the third option is a wash as far as GSP traffic is concerned and could harm other carriers (which isn't a good thing for competition either).

 

It may be that GSP, particularly given the ease of getting to Charlotte, just doesn't have the market to support Southwest's particular connections and destinations, even Chicago (yet?). I hope not, but if the demand isn't there... And unlike other carriers, Southwest can't shift to smaller jets (not significantly smaller, anyway).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can think of only three ways for Greenville (Spartanburg, Anderson) travelers to "smarten up," if I understand your comment correctly: 1) start flying more; or 2) quit driving to Charlotte (or elsewhere; though I can't imagine driving to Atlanta to fly) and originate here in GSP; or 3) shift from other GSP carriers to Southwest.

 

But nobody's going to (or should) just start flying to keep an airline in town, whatever its perceived benefits; and if people are in fact still going to other airports, its because they perceive a better deal there (driving included). If Southwest hasn't pulled them away from that option, then its not likely that any airline will, and who am I to second-guess them on how they travel?; and the third option is a wash as far as GSP traffic is concerned and could harm other carriers (which isn't a good thing for competition either).

 

It may be that GSP, particularly given the ease of getting to Charlotte, just doesn't have the market to support Southwest's particular connections and destinations, even Chicago (yet?). I hope not, but if the demand isn't there... And unlike other carriers, Southwest can't shift to smaller jets (not significantly smaller, anyway).

The market is there when RATES are reasonable.  The rates are only reasonable when there is sufficient competition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you have to check a bag, don't forget to tack on $50 to the other guys for the bag that Southwest includes for free.

 

The Delta SkyMiles American Express is $75 per year (free the first year), and it allows one free checked bag with each ticket, plus priority boarding, plus SkyMiles for all money spent, plus 30,000 free SkyMiles upon signing up.  It is a great deal, and pays for itself many times over.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The market is there when RATES are reasonable.  The rates are only reasonable when there is sufficient competition.

Well, according the Southwest, the market isn't there for certain routes. And the load factors that were shared in an earlier post on this thread were not all that encouraging for the others, though it would surprise me if the Chicago routes were losing money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, according the Southwest, the market isn't there for certain routes. And the load factors that were shared in an earlier post on this thread were not all that encouraging for the others, though it would surprise me if the Chicago routes were losing money.

Southwest is being undercut in order to drive them out of the market.  If they leave, the previous high prices will return.  That will reduce passengers even further.  The renovation costs will be born by a shrinking market, thus raising fares. It is downward spiral.        

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Southwest is being undercut in order to drive them out of the market.  If they leave, the previous high prices will return.  That will reduce passengers even further.  The renovation costs will be born by a shrinking market, thus raising fares. It is downward spiral.        

Granting what you say for the sake of argument, did Southwest not do the same thing when it came to town? Is it OK for Southwest to undercut its competition, but not vice versa? I'm not inclined to view the "legacy" carriers as operating in cartel fashion, which is what you seem to be suggesting. On the contrary, they're all competing with each other (at least where they overlap), and GSP travelers are benefiting from the competition.

 

But if what you suggest were to come to pass, what of it? If someone must fly, Charlotte (e.g.) is easy to get to, particularly for Spartanburg travelers. Under those circumstances, I might choose to fly into Charlotte instead of GSP, which would be a bit inconvenient (but give me an excuse for eating at the Beacon!). That is to say that the consumer is still sovereign. If GSP travelers really objected to higher fares, they would bid the prices down by going elsewhere or by choosing other forms of transportation. However, It seems pretty obvious to me that fares at GSP have historically been higher because most of its traffic is business-related, and businesses who are flying their representatives all over the place are not as price-sensitive as, e.g., vacation-travelers are.

 

That said, I am not inclined to be skeptical about Southwest's longevity at GSP. They know how to compete as well as their competition does, and are probably financially in a better position to do so. I have to believe that they factor all these variables into their decision to enter a market in the first place. The only potential achilles heel I could see for them is their reliance on 737's. Unless Air Tran brought a lot of smaller jets along with them into the merger, Southwest can't easily shift to planes more appropriate to a lower-than-expected demand.

 

As for the airport expansion, that seems pretty clearly speculative, and not an accommodation to the Southwest effect. So GSP travelers will indirectly bear that cost no matter what Southwest does. But again, on the (good?) assumption that GSP's management knows what it's doing, then there must be potentially other opportunities presented by such an expansion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Granting what you say for the sake of argument, did Southwest not do the same thing when it came to town? Is it OK for Southwest to undercut its competition, but not vice versa? I'm not inclined to view the "legacy" carriers as operating in cartel fashion, which is what you seem to be suggesting. On the contrary, they're all competing with each other (at least where they overlap), and GSP travelers are benefiting from the competition.

 

But if what you suggest were to come to pass, what of it? If someone must fly, Charlotte (e.g.) is easy to get to, particularly for Spartanburg travelers. Under those circumstances, I might choose to fly into Charlotte instead of GSP, which would be a bit inconvenient (but give me an excuse for eating at the Beacon!). That is to say that the consumer is still sovereign. If GSP travelers really objected to higher fares, they would bid the prices down by going elsewhere or by choosing other forms of transportation. However, It seems pretty obvious to me that fares at GSP have historically been higher because most of its traffic is business-related, and businesses who are flying their representatives all over the place are not as price-sensitive as, e.g., vacation-travelers are.

 

That said, I am not inclined to be skeptical about Southwest's longevity at GSP. They know how to compete as well as their competition does, and are probably financially in a better position to do so. I have to believe that they factor all these variables into their decision to enter a market in the first place. The only potential achilles heel I could see for them is their reliance on 737's. Unless Air Tran brought a lot of smaller jets along with them into the merger, Southwest can't easily shift to planes more appropriate to a lower-than-expected demand.

 

As for the airport expansion, that seems pretty clearly speculative, and not an accommodation to the Southwest effect. So GSP travelers will indirectly bear that cost no matter what Southwest does. But again, on the (good?) assumption that GSP's management knows what it's doing, then there must be potentially other opportunities presented by such an expansion.

 

The history of monopolies and oligopolies does not lend itself to price competition.  There are too few competitors for that to occur.  That is why we had the 4th highest fares before Southwest and will again, if they leave.  The other carriers are most likely pricing below cost in the short term in order to run off Southwest for  the long term.  That is why I would hope Southwest would simply fly to new destinations that are not otherwise available from GSP.  I guess they have their reasons for doing otherwise.  

 

The 'what of it' is that with high fares and few routes, we will suffer in economic development, as companies DO care how easily and cheaply they can send their employees to out of town customers, etc. That is why we went to such length to get SW to come here in the first place.  I find it hard to believe the renovations/expansion would be as extensive if SW hadn't signed on either. Albeit some of the work was long overdue.  

 

Having to always fly out of CLT means always having to pay for parking every day your gone, having a long drive both before and after a flight, dealing with the shuttle,etc.      

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Having to always fly out of CLT means always having to pay for parking every day your gone, having a long drive both before and after a flight, dealing with the shuttle,etc.      

I usually fly out of CLT by choice because then I have to deal with just 1 flight to get to my destination, rather than also dealing with a connection (which can get messed up with delays); there is a US Airways Club there; there is a better rental car selection; etc.  If GSP had more point-to-point flights rather than just flights to airlines' hubs, my calculations would perhaps change.

 

Why isn't local government focusing on more transportation options than just Southwest?  For example, I-85 is a pain between Charlotte and Atlanta.  North Carolina has more and more trains from NY and Raleigh to Charlotte, which makes travel easier, but all but 1 in each direction terminate at Charlotte.  Why haven't those trains been extended to Atlanta?  That would be a low-cost way to increase mobility and choices for people in the Upstate.

Edited by mallguy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

As per this previous post, you can no longer book GSP-MCO flights after September on Southwest. Also, lots of rumblings that GSP-BNA may be discontinued permanently as the load factors have continued to perform below expectations.

You heard it months before it happened about Nashville (above), now hear this......GSP is not working out......resources can be better deployed.....Southwest is looking to completely pull out of GSP. Heard it direct at a cocktail party from a very high up in the company, here in Dallas. The future of Southwest at GSP is in SERIOUS jeopardy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You heard it months before it happened about Nashville (above), now hear this......GSP is not working out......resources can be better deployed.....Southwest is looking to completely pull out of GSP. Heard it direct at a cocktail party from a very high up in the company, here in Dallas. The future of Southwest at GSP is in SERIOUS jeopardy.

Unfortunately I think there is some validity in your statement. However there are multiple variables in play, including Airtran's smaller planes taking the place of Southwest's economically unviable 737's. If Southwest pulls out completely, it will be the first time they've ever done so, embarrassing them, and marring their perfect record. I expect Airtran to take their place eventually. 

Edited by scgubers
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.