GSP International

[gman430]

Actually, Southwest has pulled out of several markets recently. It's the first time they have ever done so.

[gs3]

Unfortunately I think there is some validity in your statement. However there are multiple variables in play, including Airtran's smaller planes taking the place of Southwest's economically unviable 737's. If Southwest pulls out completely, it will be the first time they've ever done so, embarrassing them, and marring their perfect record. I expect Airtran to take their place eventually.

Well thank you guber, that you think my statement MAY be factual. My chest swells with pride!!!! LOL!

Confused on your whole post.....there will be no more AirTran shortly, as when SWA bought them, they starting phasing out the AirTran brand. Secondly, there are no longer any smaller AirTran planes. Southwest sold the AirTran 717 planes to Delta MONTHS ago. SWA will remain a purely 737 fleet.

GSP, in the mind of SWA is history. Once some remaining contractual obligations are over, SWA is gone from what I hear.

[Greenville]

Well thank you guber, that you think my statement MAY be factual. My chest swells with pride!!!! LOL!

Confused on your whole post.....there will be no more AirTran shortly, as when SWA bought them, they starting phasing out the AirTran brand. Secondly, there are no longer any smaller AirTran planes. Southwest sold the AirTran 717 planes to Delta MONTHS ago. SWA will remain a purely 737 fleet.

GSP, in the mind of SWA is history. Once some remaining contractual obligations are over, SWA is gone from what I hear.

 

That's a shame, because in my mind, they promised all these great low fares and amazing service.  My experience with them has been far from that lofty promise.  Their fares are not that great, often higher than legacy carriers, and their service is often disjointed.  I was so excited to get them at GSP, but if they leave now, I'll view their tenure at GSP with a bad taste in my mouth.  I did not have any experience with SWA until a few years ago, but I have to wonder if the current Southwest is a shadow of what it used to be.  Sad.

[gman430]

That's a shame, because in my mind, they promised all these great low fares and amazing service. My experience with them has been far from that lofty promise. Their fares are not that great, often higher than legacy carriers, and their service is often disjointed. I was so excited to get them at GSP, but if they leave now, I'll view their tenure at GSP with a bad taste in my mouth. I did not have any experience with SWA until a few years ago, but I have to wonder if the current Southwest is a shadow of what it used to be. Sad.

The legacy carriers lowered their fares once Southwest came in so they could compete. That's why GSP had one of the largest average airfare drops in the country according to the USDOT. If Southwest leaves and no other major low-cost carrier like JetBlue comes in, expect legacy carriers to raise their fares substantially back to pre-Southwest levels.

[Greenville]

The legacy carriers lowered their fares once Southwest came in so they could compete. That's why GSP had one of the largest average airfare drops in the country according to the USDOT. If Southwest leaves and no other major low-cost carrier like JetBlue comes in, expect legacy carriers to raise their fares substantially back to pre-Southwest levels.

 

I realize that Southwest caused the average fare at GSP to decrease, but to call themselves a "low cost carrier" is not true these days.  I've checked Southwest numerous times at various airports over the past few years, and they are rarely the most affordable.  They are sometimes competitive on price, but given the fact that their boarding/seating policy sucks, their service often leaves something to be desired, and they have limited cities they fly to (or "through," depending on whether you have a direct or a non-stop flight) they end up way down my list of preferences.

 

And evidently, plenty of other people agree with me since Southwest isn't meeting their quotas and is now pulling out of cities when it never had to before.  They no longer seem to be the amazing airline they earned the reputation for being.  Currently, they provide a low cost airline experience at legacy carrier prices.  Not good.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Greenville

[gs3]

No fault of GSP, but by June, the United (ex Continental) nonstop to Cleveland will be gone, as United is dismantling the Cleveland hub.  Another nonstop for GSP, gone.

[Greenville]

No fault of GSP, but by June, the United (ex Continental) nonstop to Cleveland will be gone, as United is dismantling the Cleveland hub.  Another nonstop for GSP, gone.

 

That sucks.  Any idea how full that flight was?  I'm guessing there isn't much demand for travel between the two, but it would be nice to see someone else replace the flight.

[gs3]

That sucks.  Any idea how full that flight was?  I'm guessing there isn't much demand for travel between the two, but it would be nice to see someone else replace the flight.

It was a 50 seat RJ and actually was almost always full. Easy way to do a quick Midwest connect. Fluor employees could always be counted on for a large percentage of the passengers, going to their Cleveland / Ohio / Midwest / PA operations and industrial projects. GSP was one of the few smaller Southern markets that had a nonstop to that specific hub, and the only SC city with a nonstop to Cleveland.

[rssgvegas]

That sucks.  Any idea how full that flight was?  I'm guessing there isn't much demand for travel between the two, but it would be nice to see someone else replace the flight.

 

It did ok, but the Cle route has always been the worst performing flight of the day.  I'd have to get exact numbers but guessing I think its load factor is around 68%.  For instance, everything tomorrow on United is overbooked and Cleveland is booked at 38.  That's a typical day.  More than anything it is a feeder for the Ord and Ewr airports.  Both nonstops to those cities usually book and the leftovers go through Cle.  Hopefully now it will open up a route to Den for GSP.  ExpressJet runs a ERJ-145 from Knoxville to Den and ExpressJet did GSP's Cle service so maybe they can replace the flight with that route.  More than likely though I'd expect to maybe add another Ord flight.

[vicupstate]

I don't fly that much, but I had no clue there was a direct flight to Cleveland from GSP.  Maybe they should have advertised it a little more. If a flight to Denver was added, that would be a big improvement, IMO. 

[gman430]

I am still absolutely baffled as to why GSP doesn't have nonstop-direct flights to Denver, Boston, and Miami. Are these airlines just stupid or something?

[mallguy]

I am still absolutely baffled as to why GSP doesn't have nonstop-direct flights to Denver, Boston, and Miami. Are these airlines just stupid or something?

Hubs in Charlotte and Atlanta are so close.  That's the reason.

[rssgvegas]

Hubs in Charlotte and Atlanta are so close.  That's the reason.

Then why are there flights to 18 other destinations?  Denver and Miami are also hubs for 2 airlines that, up until this recent merger, did not serve either Atlanta or Charlotte. 

[vicupstate]

BTW, there will be a significant increase in parking fees at CLT to pay for the new garage they are adding, even if you don't use the garage. As I recall, it is something on the order of 40%.

[HopHead]

The inevitable effect of all these mergers is squeezing out the small-midsize airports of non-stop destinations. And that stinks. Less options and higher costs. Though, the reduction of flights at Cleveland is not surprising. United has been winding down that airport since its merger with Continental. 

 

 

Then why are there flights to 18 other destinations?  Denver and Miami are also hubs for 2 airlines that, up until this recent merger, did not serve either Atlanta or Charlotte. 

 

That's actually not accurate. American already had existing non-stop routes from CLT and ATL to Miami. Charlotte used to have NS service to Denver, but don't think they do anymore. I believe Atlanta does however.

 

BTW, there will be a significant increase in parking fees at CLT to pay for the new garage they are adding, even if you don't use the garage. As I recall, it is something on the order of 40%.

 

Most of the parking at Charlotte is pretty cheap relative to most airports, especially those comparatively sized.. Daily for instance is $7/day. A 40% increase on that only makes it $10. 

[mallguy]

Then why are there flights to 18 other destinations?  Denver and Miami are also hubs for 2 airlines that, up until this recent merger, did not serve either Atlanta or Charlotte. 

Huh?  United and American both served Atlanta and Charlotte for years.

[rssgvegas]

 

That's actually not accurate. American already had existing non-stop routes from CLT and ATL to Miami. Charlotte used to have NS service to Denver, but don't think they do anymore. I believe Atlanta does however.

 

 

 

CLT-DEN is a nonstop US route.  United does not service it though.  Atlanta does as well.

 

Huh?  United and American both served Atlanta and Charlotte for years.

 

 

I guess I didn't clarify well nor was I reading well either.  I was kinda zoned in on the whole "fly just to hubs" notion from the smaller airport for some reason as I was reading.  I was playing on the fact that Denver and Miami are hubs for airlines that don't/didn't have hubs in Atlanta or Charlotte where they can fly a bunch of folks 6-8 times a day, so it wouldn't be that surprising if they flew there.  Point being United and American don't/didn't have close hubs to GSP like Atlanta or Charlotte, so if they were going to fly somewhere from GSP, why couldn't it be from another one of their hubs? Didn't really get the ATL/CLT point b/c it's not like there aren't going to be any flights from GSP b/c ATL/CLT are driveable.  What's the reasoning of the 18 other cities those airlines fly to?  What makes DEN/MIA so far fetched compared to some of the others?

 

United has a lot of Denver passengers (and even more pax going all over the west coast) mixed throughout their 5 cities each day and I've been told Southwest has a tremendous amount of thru passengers on their 1 stop flight from the GSP-MDW-DEN route.  Add that with those who choose to fly AA/US or DL instead and there's a good bet you could fill a CRJ-700 or ERJ-170 to DEN each day.  I know I mentioned TYS having a daily ERJ-145 to DEN each day, but I forgot the only real reason they have that is b/c TYS is a maintenance base for ERJ's so that flight helps funnel planes in and out of there.  That flight wouldn't be there realistically without it.  United's flights to IAH for west coasters are always booked and it always makes me wonder why certain times a year (like now) they only service IAH once a day.  Whenever they do it twice it's always full.  But that's a different story for a different day......

 

As for Miami, a ton of people from Latin America come thru GSP and Miami is such a better gateway to get them here.  It would open up so many more cities to GSP than can be serviced right now.  I know American is considering it.  Basically it comes down to giving up 1 of their CLT nonstops each day and make it a Miami run, which as of right now, they are unwilling to do.

Edited February 5, 2014 by rssgvegas

[vicupstate]

From the Greenville News:

 

 

Passenger traffic at Greenville-Spartanburg International Airport dropped 1.6 percent last year, following a solid increase in 2012 and a meteoric jump in 2011, the year Southwest Airlines began flying at GSP.

Airport officials expressed disappointment at the decrease, and analysts said it could affect revenues in areas such as concessions and rental cars .

GSP officials stress that they are gearing for the long haul in air service locally, with competitive airline rates and charges, aggressive air service development efforts, a lack of debt, regional economic trends and a healthy “catchment area.”

GSP figures show more than 1.82 million passengers boarded flights or deplaned at GSP last year. That compared with more than 1.85 million in 2012, a 5.8 percent increase from a year earlier, and more than 1.75 million in 2011, a 38 percent rise over the previous year.

“In part, we think we saw a bit of a course correction on the (passenger) number after explosive growth in the previous two years with Southwest,” Dave Edwards, GSP’s president and chief executive, said Tuesday.

“There’s no question we were disappointed in being down calendar-year end 1.6 percent. But we attribute that almost entirely to Southwest’s reduction of service in the Orlando market and the Baltimore market.”

When Southwest cut GSP flights to those markets, it represented a loss of more than 50,000 seats in and out of the airport, Edwards said.

Southwest also has said it is cutting nonstop flights from GSP to Nashville, effective June 8. That will leave the airline with four flights from GSP, down from seven when the airline started service to Greenville in 2011.

Southwest, while remaining committed to the local market, said Tuesday the airline is still evaluating its passenger gate requirements at GSP. The airline said changes reflect adjustments to demand and airplane needs. Southwest also has expanded to Charlotte.

Meanwhile, Charleston International Airport, where Southwest began flying at the same time it started GSP service, is breaking passenger records.

Nearly 2.9 million passengers arrived or departed in 2013, airport officials said. That was a 10 percent increase over the 2012 passenger total of 2.6 million and up from 2.5 million in 2011.

“These are exciting times at the airport,” said Paul Campbell, director of airports. “Our passenger traffic is growing thanks in part to the great publicity Charleston and the Lowcountry have received from national travel publications and from the great support of the airlines doing business here.”

“And, of course, the airport is undergoing a major transformation over the next two years to modernize the terminal, add five new gates,” Campbell said.

More evidence the airport is growing: The Transportation Security Administration recently placed Charleston International among the top airports in the nation for the number of departing passengers.

The airport now is a Category I airport, a designation that could give the Charleston County Aviation Authority as owner and operator of the airport access to additional Airport Improvement Program funding.

Charlotte Douglas International Airport made history last year with 43.46 million travelers — its largest passenger traffic numbers ever, and a5.4 percent jump from 2012, officials said.

They attributed much of the gain to increased flights by airlines. Southwest Airlines began flying at Charlotte Douglas in April last year, offering six daily flights to Baltimore, Chicago, Houston and Orlando. US Airways also launched daily nonstop service to São Paulo, Brazil on June 8.

Contributing to the record-breaking number, international travel rose 4 percent from 2.7 million passengers traveling abroad in 2012 to 2.8 million in 2013.

Robert Mann, an airline industry consultant, said Southwest recently cut its capacity growth and reallocated some existing resources. He said the airline also is pricing more aggressively for a financial return that will help maintain an investment-grade credit rating and attractive bond rating.

He said GSP is in “an unenviable position” of having to compete with Charlotte, one of the nation’s largest airports that could get even larger in the wake of the American Airlines-US Airways merger.

The number of passengers is important because airports generally charge landing fees based on weight and passenger volume, Mann said.

But airports also develop “non-airside” revenue from passengers spending money on food and clothing inside the airport and renting cars, he said.

The Greenville-Spartanburg Airport District’s total operating revenues were nearly $23 million for the fiscal year ended June 30, 2013, up 3 percent from $22.2 million a year earlier, according to an independent auditors’ report.

That resulted primarily from increased terminal space rent, according to the report.

GSP officials launched Wingspan, a four-year, $115 million terminal improvement program, in May 2012 to modernize the main terminal building, improve passenger flow and upgrade the facility.

Local airport, business and civic officials believe Southwest is part of an air-travel equation that is an important catalyst for community and economic growth.

They also believe more competition among airlines could drive down fares at GSP, which has the nation’s 37th most-expensive fares, according to the government’s latest data.

Those fares, however, have dropped nearly 35 percent since 2000, according to the data.

GSP officials and the airport’s auditors, meanwhile, stress that GSP’s profitability levels historically have been strong.

Total assets on June 30, 2013, were approximately $222 million, which included $13 million in cash and receivables, $73 million in investments, and $137 million in capital assets, the report said.

It said total liabilities were $12 million, $3 million of which related to GSP’s 2001 rental car facility bond issue.

All “foreseeable” capital projects within a 10-year horizon are projected to be funded internally with airport district reserve funds or FAA grants, the report said.

“Management remains committed to providing increased levels of air service for the surrounding population base,” the independent auditor said, “ever mindful about posturing ourselves from a competitive standpoint in the face of increased competition from Charlotte and Atlanta.”

 

 

[vicupstate]

Charleston's economy is running on all cylinders it seems right now.  Tourism and construction are booming, The IT emphasis is really taking hold it seems and of course, Boeing. Boeing is having some issues but I expect those will iron out eventually.  At this rate their airport will have double the traffic GSP does. 

[Danmire]

I wonder how much Southwest flying in to Charlotte now has hurt their passenger numbers in Greenville.  

[gman430]

I wonder how much Southwest flying in to Charlotte now has hurt their passenger numbers in Greenville.

Notice the non-stop direct service they offer out of Charlotte is the exact same as GSP. Why they did that instead of offering separate and possibly additional destinations once again baffles me. All it does is over saturate the local market.

Edited February 5, 2014 by gman430

[HopHead]

CLT-DEN is a nonstop US route.  United does not service it though.  Atlanta does as well.

 

That's correct. US/AA has that route currently. United used to have a nonstop from CLT to DEN as well. It was discontinued a few years ago.

[vicupstate]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/02/16/4700375/airport-parking-would-stay-profitable.html#.UwISPPldWVo

 

Parking at CLT will go up soon. Interesting info. on how CLT attracts carriers by sharing its parking revenue.  

[Greenville]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/02/16/4700375/airport-parking-would-stay-profitable.html#.UwISPPldWVo

 

Parking at CLT will go up soon. Interesting info. on how CLT attracts carriers by sharing its parking revenue.  

 

Interesting, because some Charlotte residents who post here (who shall remain nameless) have enjoyed telling us how GSP only got Southwest because of incentives.

[gman430]

Thomas Creek opens at the airport May 10th.