GSP International

[gs3]

So it sounds as if they expect the grant to come through, no? But Allegiant's failure in Vegas may not bode well for luring a new western destination. On the other hand, I would think Denver would be a more sustainable destination, with LA better still.

Denver with Frontier would be much more successful, as it is Frontiers hub and people could make connections to other West Coast destinations (in addition to daily service, which would work for business travelers). While I'm glad Allegiant has added flights to Greenville, their model is strictly the leisure traveler. Las Vegas is their base of operation, but it is not a hub in the traditional sense of the legacy carriers. You can't change planes in Vegas on Allegiant. They do not operate a "hub and spoke" system. Same goes with this new Skybus airlines. While Columbus, Ohio is their base and they have many flights from there, you can't change planes there.

We'll get more West Coast flights. Air traffic numbers at GSP are up over last year and slowly climbing. With the additional industry and business moving in, business travel will keep GSP strong.

[Greenville]

Denver with Frontier would be much more successful, as it is Frontiers hub and people could make connections to other West Coast destinations (in addition to daily service, which would work for business travelers). While I'm glad Allegiant has added flights to Greenville, their model is strictly the leisure traveler. Las Vegas is their base of operation, but it is not a hub in the traditional sense of the legacy carriers. You can't change planes in Vegas on Allegiant. They do not operate a "hub and spoke" system. Same goes with this new Skybus airlines. While Columbus, Ohio is their base and they have many flights from there, you can't change planes there.

We'll get more West Coast flights. Air traffic numbers at GSP are up over last year and slowly climbing. With the additional industry and business moving in, business travel will keep GSP strong.

Well said as always.

I agree with you about our business travel numbers getting even stronger as we move forward. Let's also not forget about tourism in Greenville. While it will not have the impact that business travel does, people coming to Greenville just to visit or scope out a future home will surely continue to rise.

[distortedlogic]

Thought this was interesting. I was browsing on Kayak.com, and when I put in GSP as the originating airport, it brought up a table showing the top three or five destinations out of GSP. #1 was none other than Las Vegas.

[gvillenative]

I believe daily flights is the key. I know for me not really having much of a choice of how long you want to stay or what day you fly out there probably had something to do with the low numbers. If there was like even one departure and arrival per day to give you a little more of a choice it probably could have worked. I am not bashing Allegiant in the least I for one was jumping for joy at the prospect of a non-stop route to Vegas, but I only wanted to spend maybe an extended weekend out there 3 days max. Seems like you would have to stay out there almost a week before you can leave. I believe if we get Frontier they would have at least one departure/ arrival per day if not more. if that is the case Frontier probably stands a better chance of succeeding. At least Allegiant stuck their necks out there and gave us a chance. Oh well we are losing one but gaining another in the process.

[distortedlogic]

New flyover interchange. This may look a little more impressive, but will it be worth the cost?

[gs3]

New flyover interchange. This may look a little more impressive, but will it be worth the cost?

Interesting.....

I thought with the recent rebuild of this interchange that it was complete. Strange the state wouldn't have done this when the interchange was under heavy construction.....

On another GSP note....a good plug for GSP from the New York Times travel pages.....an excellent article on the mountains and Asheville, and they advise travelers to use GSP as the gateway. For all you lovers of Asheville (like me), you'll enjoy the article.

http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/trave...html?ref=travel

[gvillenative]

It isn't complete the flyover was already in the master plan they just didn't plan on building so soon but apparently there are still problems with the merge from the airport exit to I-85 and with the curve being too sharp. My question is once they build the flyover what is going to happen to that second lane are they just going to make it 2 lanes coming from Greenville? or just cut that lane out altogether. Once the flyover is done the interchange will be complete.

[gs3]

It isn't complete the flyover was already in the master plan they just didn't plan on building so soon but apparently there are still problems with the merge from the airport exit to I-85 and with the curve being too sharp. My question is once they build the flyover what is going to happen to that second lane are they just going to make it 2 lanes coming from Greenville? or just cut that lane out altogether. Once the flyover is done the interchange will be complete.

Thanks!

[distortedlogic]

Article in the Journal about GSPs ongoing search for a low cost carrier. The grant to help lure a carrier has still not been granted (yet).

Interesting little table comparing the major airports in the state; GSP, CAE, CHS, and MYB. Looks like this:

GSP CAE CHS MYB

Flights: 63 47 67 38

Airlines: 7 6 7 9

Cities: 16 14 12 12 (GSPs 16 icludes Las Vegas)

[Spartan]

Interesting.....

I thought with the recent rebuild of this interchange that it was complete. Strange the state wouldn't have done this when the interchange was under heavy construction.....

That article really leaves more questions than it answers.

According to SCDOT there wasn't enough money to build it then, and there isn't now. I'm wondering where the money will come from to make this happen.

[gs3]

There is a new book out on the history of GSP. "Greenville-Spartanburg International Airport - Upstate South Carolina's Gateway to the World". It is a hardback and 286 pages. Written by Dave Partridge. I picked up a copy this morning at Barnes & Noble.

Very well done back and seems like it will be a good read to anyone interested in history. Several pages of color photos throughout the 45 years of growth at GSP.

More than just focusing on the airport, the book also gives insight into the early business leaders that drove Greenville forward and helped strengthen the Upstate into the business location it is today with Michelin, BMW, Fluor, Bosch, etc, etc, etc. I've only had time to read a few pages this morning, but I think it will help give a sense of where Greenville's "can-do" attitude comes from.

It is a recommended read.

[distortedlogic]

Article on GSP forcasting growth over the next 45 years and outlining current status now at 45. Don't know about you guys, but 45 years is a looooong time for this to happen. I would have hoped these milestone would have been reached much sooner.

GSO announced yest it will be a new hub for Skybus. Any thoughts on why GSP has failed to attract something like this? Is it leadership? Marketing? Money? Lack of vision? There seems no reason to me that GSP should be getting left behind in the dust by airports such as GSO.

[gs3]

^ GSP is seeing growth in passenger numbers....IMO that isn't being left behind. The airlines love GSP because it is a gold mine....the planes are filled with business travelers paying 600 to 800 per ticket vs the average citizen paying 200 per ticket. With that said, yes, GSP does need to work hard to attract another low cost carrier other than Allegiant and from what I hear, they are actively seeking this.

Growth is happening in the passenger numbers and as that continues new and additional service will happen. For a metro of a million that is wedged between Charlotte and Atlanta, 1.6 million passengers a year is a healthy number. As a citizen, if you want GSP to continue growing, then there are several things you can do: fly from GSP and not Atlanta, write the GSP board frequently and demand a low cost carrier, write the low cost airlines and suggest GSP as a destination, if you know family/friends planning a vacation to the mountains, then encourage them to use GSP.

PS: Check out Skybus closer.....GSO didn't get a "hub"......they got a "base/focus city" as Skybus offers only point to point service.

[Greenville]

Article at GreenvilleOnline.com today discussing the high prices at GSP Int'l.:

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs....NEWS01/71031048

Aside from discussing how high fares tend to be at GSP, the article also mentioned that GSP was denied the grant which was rumored to be used to lure Frontier Airlines into our market. That is very disappointing, and it would be nice to know why it was denied.

The encouraging thing is that the airport has a task force that is working hard to add new airlines as well as new destinations. One quote from the article I really liked was:

"The Task Force is working with the airport and other organizations to encourage a low-cost carrier to provide service at GSP and to encourage it or other airlines to provide direct service to the West Coast, the Boston area, Germany and maybe China."

That would go a long way toward getting business from many of the 30% of people who drive from the GSP metro area to Charlotte or Atlanta.

Thoughts?

[distortedlogic]

I think that is VERY disheartening news about the grant. It is good there is a committe looking for things, but apparently nobody wants to invest in GSP. That is a shame! SOunds as if GSP will remain under the radar.

Any ideas how hard it would be for GSP to raise the 1MM needed?

[distortedlogic]

This article explains things a little more, and paints a more hopeful picture. It sounds like they are very dilligent in their search. Let's hope something works out with a couple of these airlines soon.

I personally would LOVE a direct flight to China, though this seems unlikey at this point. I have looked around for future flights to Beijing, and GSP is actually cheaper already than ATL or CLT, as long as it is a least a few months in advance.

QUESTION:

What are some other, feasible international locations you would like to see? Paris sounds reasonable simply because of the Michelin tie in. Others?

[murph0615]

Focusing on low cost carriers is probably a good move, but Southwest and others are going to be very reluctant to come to GSP until there is a second runway. I think the majority of the effort should be spent on adding additional cities such as Boston (Delta), Miami (American), Denver (United/Frontier), Phoenix (US Air), LA (pretty much any airline), Austin, and San Francisco (United). Direct international flights seem very unlikely, especially to China since I don't know if GSP can accommodate those planes. Maybe start with Toronto or somewhere in Mexico? After adding routes, if they can't land a low-cost carrier, the committee should focus on getting multiple carriers on the same routes to try to drive the prices down with the existing comptetition.

RDU is a good comparison for an airport that is maybe 15 years ahead of GSP.

[gvillenative]

It does seem unlikely for long international flights in the near future. Although there is some interest from a bussiness standpoint. As far as can they accomodate the size of plane needed I think they can. All they have are single jet bridges, I've seen 747's and 777's using a single jet bridge, and the runway at 11,001 feet can accommodate any size plane maybe even the new Airbus A-380. We had a fully loaded Antinov land here with a 100-ton payload with no problem at all. A fully loaded passenger plane would be well beneath that number. They can accommodate international flights. It just won't happen because of all they crazy variables that GSP seems to lose out on. Such as needing a second runway for some of these carriers. Can't get a second runway till the first one is at like 60% capacity can't increase capacity because the existing airlines won't add destinations; with the exception of Allegiant. Can't get people to use GSP because of the stupidly high prices, the airlines won't lower the prices because the flights are 80% full, so on and so forth. It's time for someone to quit find reasons why not and go against the grain, step up to the plate and make it happen.

[whitehourseview]

It does seem unlikely for long international flights in the near future. Although there is some interest from a bussiness standpoint. As far as can they accomodate the size of plane needed I think they can. All they have are single jet bridges, I've seen 747's and 777's using a single jet bridge, and the runway at 11,001 feet can accommodate any size plane maybe even the new Airbus A-380. We had a fully loaded Antinov land here with a 100-ton payload with no problem at all. A fully loaded passenger plane would be well beneath that number. They can accommodate international flights. It just won't happen because of all they crazy variables that GSP seems to lose out on. Such as needing a second runway for some of these carriers. Can't get a second runway till the first one is at like 60% capacity can't increase capacity because the existing airlines won't add destinations; with the exception of Allegiant. Can't get people to use GSP because of the stupidly high prices, the airlines won't lower the prices because the flights are 80% full, so on and so forth. It's time for someone to quit find reasons why not and go against the grain, step up to the plate and make it happen.

Why would someone in the financially tight and troubled airline industry "step up to the plate" like that for GSP?

GSP is a nice regional airport, but to consider it an international player, even in the expected future, isn't realistic. Other than GSP giving away huge grants to lure airlines, there isn't much that can happen. And it would be insane to suggest that GSP should give away deals like that.

Again, fine regional airport, but it's geographically between one of the largest airports in the world to the west, a major airline hub to the east, and between two other regional airports to the north and south of it by about a hour to hour and a half. That's a tight squeeze

[RestedTraveler]

Just a thought: wouldn't it be great to see a home-grown low-cost carrier startup at GSP and grow to serve many local southeastern markets that are overshadowed by the bigger airports?

[Greenville]

I have a funny story to share. I flew out of Charleston's airport yesterday, and I overheard a man across the aisle from me telling someone else about an article stating that Charleston was one of the five most expensive airports in the country. I had just read the article mentioning GSP as one of the five most expensive airports only a few hours prior, so I was chuckling to myself as the man said the same about Charleston. Unfortunately, the Greenville News didn't care to mention that Charleston was also one of the five most expensive. Go figure.

I don't know what Charleston's excuse is, because they can't be losing traffic to other markets like Greenville does (unless people drive to Columbia or Myrtle Beach for flights, which I doubt). We really do need to do something, but I am not convinced that our position between Atlanta and Charlotte is impossible to overcome. It sounds like the folks at GSP are working hard to get more airlines to offer service, as well as getting the current airlines to provide more destinations. I really think it will improve soon, because over 1 million people in our metro area is enough to warrant its OWN airport with good flights. The fact that GSP is 80% full, despite the higher prices, says a lot about how many people live in the upstate and the money they are willing to spend for convenience. Just imagine if prices were lower!

Edited November 3, 2007 by Greenville

[jarvismj]

I have a funny story to share. I flew out of Charleston's airport yesterday, and I overheard a man across the aisle from me telling someone else about an article stating that Charleston was one of the five most expensive airports in the country. I had just read the article mentioning GSP as one of the five most expensive airports only a few hours prior, so I was chuckling to myself as the man said the same about Charleston. Unfortunately, the Greenville News didn't care to mention that Charleston was also one of the five most expensive. Go figure.

I don't know what Charleston's excuse is, because they can't be losing traffic to other markets like Greenville does (unless people drive to Columbia or Myrtle Beach for flights, which I doubt). We really do need to do something, but I am not convinced that our position between Atlanta and Charlotte is impossible to overcome. It sounds like the folks at GSP are working hard to get more airlines to offer service, as well as getting the current airlines to provide more destinations. I really think it will improve soon, because over 1 million people in our metro area is enough to warrant its OWN airport with good flights. The fact that GSP is 80% full, despite the higher prices, says a lot about how many people live in the upstate and the money they are willing to spend for convenience. Just imagine if prices were lower!

CHS also loses out to Savannah, while still a good distance away, is a nicer airport IMO, and has flights going to more northeast and midwest/western destinations as well.

[distortedlogic]

CHS also loses out to Savannah, while still a good distance away, is a nicer airport IMO, and has flights going to more northeast and midwest/western destinations as well.

Good point. I looked up some stats on Savannah's airport, and was very surprised. I was expecting more of an Asheville type airport, but it has averaged 1mm passengers over the past three years (and on pace again for 07'), and has nearly as many daily departures and cities as GSP!

Still, this is not nearly the situation GSP has with CLT/ATL, and even Asheville and Cola airports even closer. Bit I still maintain that GSP, with a base of 1.3mm and steadily growing can support a larger array of destinations and airlines. I agree with Greenville's last few comments.

[interestedexpat]

I'll chime in on the International thing since I fly to and fro every once in awhile to Thailand. I don't see GSP getting any direct to Asia flights until the fly time is significantly less. The flights options from Atl are limited enough as it is. Many of the itneraries that come up for Bangkok to GSP stop twice to get to GSP. This past July coming to GSP from Bangkok, we flew to Tiapei, LA, Chicago and then GSP. We've done Seoul to LA to Atl to GSP. I've also done Shianghi, LA, Atl, GSP. ThaiAir does Bangkok to New York, but it's hugely expensive (about twice the cost of stopping for a two hour break along the way).

For international stuff I think Europe (Germany, London, Paris) and perhaps Latin American destinations are more likely.

Seems to me that the focus would be better spent on getting lower cost regional travel and some longer leg direct flights. I'd love to see an LA to GSP or San Fran to GSP. Don't know that demand would justify it though.

Edited November 4, 2007 by interestedexpat

[gvillenative]

I apologize in advance for the late response, my internet has been down for a couple days. I believe I was taken a little out of context by whitehoursview. I was just trying to say that the airlines need to stop with the excuses and offer more service, give us more options at a less expensive rate. I wasn't saying anybody needs to invest any money into GSP, they just need to stop with the malarkey of we are "too close" to Atlanta and Charlotte and just man up and say "...you are intentionally being overlooked because you are a smaller market..." thats all I'm saying. I don't care what anybody says Atlanta and Charlotte are nowhere near being too close. 150 & 110 miles are both long distances and not worth my time or money. Back on subject I think I would see a flight to Canada before I see any other international flight. Who knows they might try that Toronto route they tried some years back. Asia, if we ever got it would be a very long way off.

Edited November 4, 2007 by gvillenative