GSP International

[breed]

Just a quick comment regarding the merits of the bill...

...there was an expression of concern that these incentives should be offered to any airline, not just Southwest.

If you go and read the bill, there is no reference to Southwest at all. I'm fairly certain that would be determined to be unconstitutional. Governments are not permitted to simply pick a company and give it money.

From the bill:

Section 55-19-30. (A) Grants from the South Carolina Air Service Incentive and Development Fund must be considered and may be awarded in accordance with the purposes of the program, which are more flight options, more competition for air travel, and more affordable air fares for this State. Selection criteria include the following:

(1) More air flight options including:

(a) number of scheduled, daily nonstop flights by commercial scheduled passenger air carriers to United States destinations;

(b) number of scheduled, daily one-stop flights by commercial scheduled passenger air carriers to United States destinations;

© number of scheduled, daily one-stop flights by commercial scheduled passenger air carriers to international destinations;

(d) number of connecting cities by a scheduled commercial passenger air carrier to United States destinations that are ranked in the region's top twenty-five markets in terms of origin and destination passengers;

(2) More competition for air travel including:

(a) number of scheduled, daily nonstop flights by commercial scheduled passenger air carriers to United States destinations served by two or more airlines;

(b) number of scheduled, daily one-stop flights by commercial scheduled passenger air carriers to United States destinations served by two or more airlines;

© number of scheduled, daily one-stop flights by commercial scheduled passenger air carriers to international destinations served by two or more airlines;

(d) average airfare for scheduled, connecting flights for the region's top twenty-five markets in terms of origin and destination passengers;

(3) More affordable air fares for South Carolina including:

(a) average airfare for scheduled, round-trip, nonstop flights by commercial scheduled passenger air carriers to United States destinations;

(b) average airfare for scheduled, round-trip, one-stop flights by commercial scheduled passenger air carriers to United States destinations;

© average airfare for scheduled, round-trip, one-stop flights by commercial scheduled passenger air carriers to international destinations.

(B) In making awards, the Executive Director of the South Carolina Aeronautics Commission must give highest priority to maintaining affordable airfares to eastern and western United States destinations. High priority must be given to United States owned, publicly traded network carriers. Priority also must be given to proposals that impact a majority of South Carolinians.

All of these are worthy goals, and point directly to some of the challenges we have locally when trying to compete against larger markets. Greenville's biggest hurdle right now is to get over the "small-market" perception. We have the 36th largest television market in the country; 50k homes smaller than Milwaukee and 40k homes larger than San Antonio. I guarantee that anyone who flies into those cities and then flies to GSP does not perceive the markets similarly. In addition, every southern state has a Greenville. More often than not, people not familiar with Greenville, South Carolina, assume that Greenville is in North Carolina. The fact that most out-of-market folks have to fly into Atlanta or Charlotte before getting here only feeds the small-market mentality.

While cheaper flights would be nice, I actually think getting a larger diversity of flights is more important. If we want to recruit companies from major cities, we have to have a direct connection to those major cities. End of story. Otherwise we will continue to be mostly stuck with Atlanta and Charlotte's leftovers.

[mallguy]

Just a quick comment regarding the merits of the bill...

...there was an expression of concern that these incentives should be offered to any airline, not just Southwest.

If you go and read the bill, there is no reference to Southwest at all.

Thanks for posting the text. Yes, there is no direct reference to Southwest. But there is plenty of room for discretion in making the grants- and nothing that indicates that the grants can't be made only or mostly to Southwest or the like. I'd still prefer a tax cut.

[Sonrise]

Although we all know it's implied to mean Southwest, it can't explicitly mention Southwest for obvious reasons.

[gman430]

The incentives money is not allowed to mention Southwest Airlines by name due to on-going negotiations. Yes, it can be used by any commercial airport and by any low-cost carrier but its main goal is to get Southwest Airlines to come to GSP.

The Greenville County Recreation District is using $1 million of the TRAC money to help lure Southwest Airlines to GSP. This money will go into a reserve if Southwest comes to GSP and only be used if they lose money here which seems highly unlikely.

[gman430]

Oops: http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20100402/BUSINESS/304020018/1011/NEWS03/Senate-dispute-stalls-incentives-for-low-cost-carrier And even if it did get included in the cigarette bill, the governor would veto it and the senate would not have the votes to over-ride it. Screwed either way it seems.

[Greenville]

Just one more example of how the Upstate has more in common with the I-85 corridor (Atlanta and Charlotte) than it does with the rest of South Carolina. Our state government is incompetent on so many levels. What's sad is that we have seen so much bias from our state government over the years when it comes to other areas of the state (especially the Lowcountry), and now that we want something that will certainly benefit the Upstate it prompts a huge argument.

[gman430]

Southwest Airlines say no to starting service at....

....Columbia: http://www.islandpac...turns-down.html However, they have not said no to Greenville-Spartanburg.

However, there could be another Palmetto State landing spot for Southwest.

Mann said the airline did not deny it plans to go to Greenville, which aggressively has been pursuing the air carrier, even though Allegiant recently started serving the Upstate. Greenville reportedly has its own incentives package on the table.

Edited April 20, 2010 by citylife

[gs3]

Interesting that GSP has not been ruled out. Never thought Columbia would be a serious contender for Southwest, after the failed attempts by Spirit and by Allegiant (which tried twice), and this article just confirms that.

[Greenville]

Interesting that GSP has not been ruled out. Never thought Columbia would be a serious contender for Southwest, after the failed attempts by Spirit and by Allegiant (which tried twice), and this article just confirms that.

I agree. Columbia probably hasn't been on Southwest's radar, to the point that even the $15 million in incentives couldn't sway them.

GSP has to be the most attractive option in the state for Southwest - more than Charleston, and much more than Columbia. GSP's record of supporting low-cost carriers (Independence Air when they were here, and Allegiant now) is unparalleled. Columbia lost both Allegiant and Spirit within a year of receiving service, and Charleston lost AirTran after not very long either.

[gman430]

Thank you Columbia for killing Greenville-Spartanburg and Charleston's chance of landing Southwest Airlines: http://www.columbiab...harleston?rss=0 I can't tell you how thrilled I am over this news. I think i'll boycott the city of Columbia for the time being.

Edited April 27, 2010 by citylife

[Greenville]

Thank you Columbia for killing Greenville-Spartanburg and Charleston's chance of landing Southwest Airlines: http://www.columbiab...harleston?rss=0 I can't tell you how thrilled I am over this news. I think i'll boycott the city of Columbia for the time being.

Let's review why Columbia lawmakers and business leaders don't want this to happen:

-CAE, the fourth-busiest in the state, is already struggling.

-They had Allegiant Air and Spirit Airlines, two low-cost carriers, but lost them within a year because ridership was too low.

-They made an offer to Southwest Airlines recently but were rejected.

"I won’t ever be able to get a low-cost carrier" to Columbia if Southwest dominates the state in this way, said Dan Mann, executive director of Columbia Metropolitan Airport.

Well, Dan, you had your chance with two low-cost airlines and failed miserably. And Southwest doesn't want to be in Columbia anyway. So since your airport is already behind, and you are scared that it will fall farther behind if GSP and CHS get Southwest Airlines, you are working hard to prevent this bill from passing. A bill which, I might add, does not specify any particular airlines or airports and is open to everyone.

Such B.S.

[vicupstate]

I'm puzzled as to why Leatherman opposes this. He is from Florence and has (or at least had) business interests in Charleston. He may be exchanging his support for other 'i.o.u's" on other items. Apparently SW is interested in both CSP and Charleston.

If the Trident has a trifecta on state government with Glenn McConnell, Bobby Harrell and Sanford, it would seem their side could prevail. This is especially true given it is two regions against one.

SC government at it's finest. Disappointed but not surprised.

[jarvismj]

I was sent this link several days ago, and it seems to have a bigger debate on Southwest and where they should go. They also linked to the GSA business article as well. Again, I agree, politics stinks. I would fly Southwest if they said F-it to the bonus and went into GSP or CHS just to spite the state government.

Sadly, none of these jackass politicians will ever be voted out of office, so it is completely safe for them to make terrible decisions like this.

Anyways, here are the links to the articles and forum thread.

Airliners.net - WN to GSP?

Incentives battle pits Midlands vs. Upstate, Charleston

[gs3]

Let's review why Columbia lawmakers and business leaders don't want this to happen:

-CAE, the fourth-busiest in the state, is already struggling.

-They had Allegiant Air and Spirit Airlines, two low-cost carriers, but lost them within a year because ridership was too low.

-They made an offer to Southwest Airlines recently but were rejected.

"I won’t ever be able to get a low-cost carrier" to Columbia if Southwest dominates the state in this way, said Dan Mann, executive director of Columbia Metropolitan Airport.

Well, Dan, you had your chance with two low-cost airlines and failed miserably. And Southwest doesn't want to be in Columbia anyway. So since your airport is already behind, and you are scared that it will fall farther behind if GSP and CHS get Southwest Airlines, you are working hard to prevent this bill from passing. A bill which, I might add, does not specify any particular airlines or airports and is open to everyone.

Such B.S.

Great summary. But you left out the chips being carried on all those shoulders and the loads of sour grapes they haul.

[Greenville]

I was sent this link several days ago, and it seems to have a bigger debate on Southwest and where they should go. They also linked to the GSA business article as well. Again, I agree, politics stinks. I would fly Southwest if they said F-it to the bonus and went into GSP or CHS just to spite the state government.

Sadly, none of these jackass politicians will ever be voted out of office, so it is completely safe for them to make terrible decisions like this.

Anyways, here are the links to the articles and forum thread.

Airliners.net - WN to GSP?

Incentives battle pits Midlands vs. Upstate, Charleston

I enjoyed reading the forum posts you linked to, jarvisj3. GSPSPOT did a nice job illustrating the issues, and held his/her own against the others chiming in. Southwest to GSP makes so much sense. Our airport is doing all it can to attract them, and they want to be there, and the only thing needed is a small assurance from the state that we will cover some of their losses if they occur early on. Unfortunately, we have a bunch of morons in the state government who are too petty and self-important to do the right thing here.

And anyone who has been paying attention knows that SW will never have to dip into that reserve fund if they fly out of GSP. There is so much pent-up demand it isn't even funny. GSP would be one of their most successful and profitable cities, no doubt.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Greenville

[gman430]

Saw this on another forum and thought I would post it here. It appears CAE folks supported the incentives right up until the minute they found out Southwest would not serve CAE. Here's their press release on it from last month:

"S.C. air service could get boost from incentives"

http://www.columbiaairport.com/UserFiles/airport/Documents/S%20C%20%20Air%20Service%20Could%20Get%20Boost%20From%20Incentives.pdf

[kristib726]

GSA just issued a breaking news bulletin that the low country is considering their own incentive package to attract a low cost airline carrier. They propose to add a 5% fee on rental cars to help subsidize the carrier and apparently they've been told by at least one carrier has said that as soon as an incentive package passes they will move forward with offering service to Charleston. The proposal is being presented to the county council on tomorrow. The upstate is also considering an incentive package, but have not yet named the funding source for the package that is being put together. Both packages would be completely separate from the states proposed legislation.

Hopefully Greenville and Charleston can get something done in spite of Columbia's childish behavior. While I am no fan of Southwest (and I fly over a 100k miles a year with another carrier), it would serve Columbia right if Southwest were to come to Greenville and Charleston, despite all of their stalling tactics. Unfortunately there's not a link to the story that was emailed and I wasn't sure what the posting rule was for articles. If we're allowed to post the full content then I'll edit this posting with the full content.

[gman430]

GSP Airport will be issuing a major incentives package that has been created by numerous business and government entities in the area if the state legislation were to fail. Here is the news article on Charleston's incentives package: http://www.gsabusine...t-carrier?rss=0 Both metro areas are slated to land Southwest Airlines if they come up with the incentives needed.

Edited April 28, 2010 by citylife

[vicupstate]

WOW. To move this fast on something this expensive tells you that the areas in question are really suffering from dearth of flights.

“We gotta get a low-cost carrier into this area because we are being killed,”

[jarvismj]

Just wanted to chime in with how Southwest expands. SW started service at Boston Logan last year with service to BWI and Midway. Less than a year later, they're running service to BWI, Midway, St Louis, Denver, Philadelphia, and Phoenix. Can you see how this would affect GSP? Like I said, I'm cozy with Delta, but I'll spread the wealth to Southwest if they're going to run into GSP. My only question is that if SW lands at GSP, will other airlines begin to offer mainline aircraft as well?

[Greenville]

Does anyone know if we are competing with CHS for Southwest? I hope it's not a first-come, first-served kind of deal because it sounds like they are beating us to the punch on the incentives package. With that said, we could have a better incentives package. We are also the more attractive airport and metro area for Southwest, as we have established.

[gman430]

Does anyone know if we are competing with CHS for Southwest? I hope it's not a first-come, first-served kind of deal because it sounds like they are beating us to the punch on the incentives package. With that said, we could have a better incentives package. We are also the more attractive airport and metro area for Southwest, as we have established.

Southwest would start service to both GSP and CHS at the same time if the incentives package is approved according to WYFF. They also talked to Dave Ridley (Southwest's senior vice president of marketing) who was in Greenville earlier today. News article and video here: http://www.wyff4.com...095/detail.html

What is this guy smoking:

"I've read about instances where a low cost carrier comes in, they essentially buy the rates down, with incentives," said Lourie. "They cause other airlines like a Delta or USAir to have to cut back services to remain profitable. And when the incentives run out, the airline picks up and packs their bags and they fly out on the last plane out of town and then we as consumers and citizens are left with less service than when the whole process started."

http://www.wistv.com....asp?S=12400735

I am allergic to the stupidity in Columbia. This is one of the many reasons why I would never want to live in that city. Yeah, Southwest has definitely packed up and left Raleigh, Nashville, etc. When Independence was at GSP, I don't recall any airline cutting back. I remember lower rates, more passengers, and increased services from airlines. Oh and Allegiant is a low-cost carrier at GSP. Do you seem them cutting back? Ummm...no.

Edited April 30, 2010 by citylife

[gman430]

Grab your bags...it's on?

However, Mann and McLeese said they were told a deal to add service to Charleston and Greenville was completed in December. The airline incentives legislation was introduced in January.

Read more: http://www.thestate.com/2010/04/30/1266026/columbia-caught-in-southwests.html#ixzz0mYrdCjcm

[gman430]

More information being thrown around than I can shake a stick at. This article says the incentives have been approved: http://www.greenvill...ow-cost-airline This one says they haven't: http://www.goupstate...w-cost-airlines Edited April 30, 2010 by citylife

[gs3]

I love the fact that two of (Southwest VP) Dave Ridley's children live in the Upstate.

From the article:

Ridley, the Southwest executive, told The News that the airline’s 69-city service network has a gap over the Carolinas and Georgia and that GSP, the Upstate’s primary airport, has characteristics his company looks for in considering where to expand.

“If you look at our history, Southwest consistently has tried to go to airports that are underserved and overpriced,” Ridley said. “What does that say about the attractiveness of Greenville? It’s underserved and overpriced.”

Ridley said he is particularly sensitive to the service gap because one of his daughters lives in Greenville, another in Charlotte and his son attends Clemson University.